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*raises hand* I have a question... this doesn''t make sense to me...

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2.5rs

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
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It''s my understanding that "Ideal" cut or "hearts and arrows" cut stones should be considered if they pull less than a 2 when ran through the HCA. I found this stone that is an "AGS 0" Hearts and Arrows with what appear to me to be EXCELLENT arrows pictures provided... here are the stats:

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: IF
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 54.8%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet:
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.94*5.96*3.69

Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown %: 15.60
pavilion Angle: 41.1°
pavilion %: 43.50


I plugged them into the HCA and it pulls a 2.6 Needless to say it falls outside of the White outline is the AGS Ideal ''candidates''.

Is there something I''m missing?

Also what would everyone''s opinions be on how much the color "H" of this stone could affect it''s appearance being the size that it is?

Thanks so much in advance!
 
AGS cut grade is performance base and is calculated using a simulation of light rays passing through a computer model of the exact dimensions of the stone in question. It is a 3 dimensional model instead of a 2 dimensional model of the HCA. The crown and pavilion angles used for HCA input is a average of 8 different facets' angle so the average numbers might not work well but each facets could still be complimentary to one another in real life.

EDT:
The ideal parameters for AGS on the HCA is still 2 dimensional and thus cannot account for all the possible variations of facet angles of an actual stone.

I think H is white enough and for a relatively small stone definitely not noticeable to me.
 
Ditto Stone, with an exception.

You''ll want to also double check that it''s a contemporary AGS0. Earlier iterations used a different rule book that''s not so good...also called AGS0. So...if it''s dated like 2006 or before, it should not rest on it''s laurels.

Also, though H may be fine, a) the combo with IF is slightly funky, and given color and clarity, you might want to flip their relationship (i.e., higher color, lower clarity, if they would not be in balance).

But, not major things....
 
Oops, missed out that information.
 
This AGS report is dated 2008 so it''s probably the latest I would think.
 
ya, that report is recent enough.
 
Date: 1/27/2009 7:13:43 PM
Author:2.5rs
It's my understanding that 'Ideal' cut or 'hearts and arrows' cut stones should be considered if they pull less than a 2 when ran through the HCA. I found this stone that is an 'AGS 0' Hearts and Arrows with what appear to me to be EXCELLENT arrows pictures provided... here are the stats:

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: IF
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 54.8%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet:
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.94*5.96*3.69

Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown %: 15.60
pavilion Angle: 41.1°
pavilion %: 43.50


I plugged them into the HCA and it pulls a 2.6 Needless to say it falls outside of the White outline is the AGS Ideal 'candidates'.

Is there something I'm missing?

Also what would everyone's opinions be on how much the color 'H' of this stone could affect it's appearance being the size that it is?

Thanks so much in advance!
Hi there!

This diamond scored over 2 because of the steeper pavilion angle in a nutshell, the HCA can penalize diamonds with this type of angle but if the images look good then you are fine. An H colour will still be plenty white in that size and cut quality.
 
Do you think the H color is fine for larger stone around 1.75 to 2 with ex cut?
 
Date: 1/28/2009 9:13:16 AM
Author: jykate
Do you think the H color is fine for larger stone around 1.75 to 2 with ex cut?
Yes absolutely. A GIA/ AGS graded H colour can be an excellent choice especially if the cut is excellent.
 
An H is fine in any size IMO.
 
Date: 1/27/2009 7:13:43 PM
Author:2.5rs
It's my understanding that 'Ideal' cut or 'hearts and arrows' cut stones should be considered if they pull less than a 2 when ran through the HCA. I found this stone that is an 'AGS 0' Hearts and Arrows with what appear to me to be EXCELLENT arrows pictures provided... here are the stats:

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: IF
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 54.8%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet:
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.94*5.96*3.69

Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown %: 15.60
pavilion Angle: 41.1°
pavilion %: 43.50


I plugged them into the HCA and it pulls a 2.6 Needless to say it falls outside of the White outline is the AGS Ideal 'candidates'.

Is there something I'm missing?

Also what would everyone's opinions be on how much the color 'H' of this stone could affect it's appearance being the size that it is?

Thanks so much in advance!
I just want to make sure you understand that arrows (and hearts) do not mean a stone will perform well on the HCA (or in real life.) The HCA evaluates angles and dimensions, not symmetry. You can have an optically symmetric stone with great hearts and arrows, but if the proportions are wrong, the stone won't perform/sparkle well.

ETA: With regards to color, that is a really personal preference - to make sure, it is a good idea to go shopping in stones that carry GIA and AGS graded stones in the size you are considering to see what your preferences are.
 
Date: 1/28/2009 10:28:54 AM
Author: :)

Date: 1/27/2009 7:13:43 PM
Author:2.5rs
It''s my understanding that ''Ideal'' cut or ''hearts and arrows'' cut stones should be considered if they pull less than a 2 when ran through the HCA. I found this stone that is an ''AGS 0'' Hearts and Arrows with what appear to me to be EXCELLENT arrows pictures provided... here are the stats:

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: IF
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 54.8%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet:
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.94*5.96*3.69

Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown %: 15.60
pavilion Angle: 41.1°
pavilion %: 43.50


I plugged them into the HCA and it pulls a 2.6 Needless to say it falls outside of the White outline is the AGS Ideal ''candidates''.

Is there something I''m missing?

Also what would everyone''s opinions be on how much the color ''H'' of this stone could affect it''s appearance being the size that it is?

Thanks so much in advance!
I just want to make sure you understand that arrows (and hearts) do not mean a stone will perform well on the HCA (or in real life.) The HCA evaluates angles and dimensions, not symmetry. You can have an optically symmetric stone with great hearts and arrows, but if the proportions are wrong, the stone won''t perform/sparkle well.

ETA: With regards to color, that is a really personal preference - to make sure, it is a good idea to go shopping in stones that carry GIA and AGS graded stones in the size you are considering to see what your preferences are.
Ditto. Just because a diamond shows a strong arrow pattern does not mean it is a top performer necessarily, you can see lesser cut diamonds show arrows and on the other side of the coin, top cuts which don''t show arrows. But if you want an actual hearts and arrows diamond, hearts images are crucial.
 
oooooooh great... :) Thanks as always for the input and info!

I am not very concerned with getting an actualy ''H&A'' stone for the sake of that, more so I am looking for an excellent real world performer! It''s gotta sparkle in real life, not just look good on paper, especially with my seemingly small budget and smaller diamond sizes.
 
Date: 1/28/2009 3:08:21 PM
Author: 2.5rs
oooooooh great... :) Thanks as always for the input and info!

I am not very concerned with getting an actualy 'H&A' stone for the sake of that, more so I am looking for an excellent real world performer! It's gotta sparkle in real life, not just look good on paper, especially with my seemingly small budget and smaller diamond sizes.
You are more than welcome 2!

So then you don't need ' extras' such as h&a necessarily which could bump the budget up, look at GIA Excellent cut grade, AGS0 and AGS1 if you come across those, use the HCA to find the appropriate scorers ags box) then evaluate from there with is images etc as you are aware. and try to work with a vendor who has in house diamonds where possible to help you sort out the best diamonds for your purposes.
 
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