Questions on appraisals...

[mypak]

Hello all...couple questions on appraisals:

1. Once I select an appraiser, I assume I take the diamond before it is set? Also if this is the case, shouldn''t I take the setting also so I can see how much that is worth? Also, do jewelers just let you take their diamond off premises like this to have it appraised? Seems risky to them...

2. How long does the appraisal process take? I assume I can watch in person, etc.

3. Lastly, any good appraisers in the Los Angeles area? I found the ones listed on this web site but they are hard to get a hold of...any others you guys have used?

Thanks so much in advance....

 

[niceice]

If the diamond is loose, most appraisers prefer to evaluate the loose diamond and then will confirm the characteristics of the diamond after it has been set and complete their appraisal at that time.

Most appraisers can evaluate a loose diamond in about an hour, however answering your questions may take longer. Keep in mind that many appraisers charge by the hour for this reason... Which kind of answers your other question pertaining to whether you may elect to be present or not

Can''t recommend a specific appraiser in accordance with forum rules, but try calling back because sometimes those little pink "who called" notes can get buried under a pile of paper when things are busy.

 

[kcoursolle]

I''m in LA and used patrick davis (from this website) and he was friendly, informative, and reasonably priced.

 

[mypak]

Great, thanks for the info....so I assume jewelers won''t have an issue if I take the diamond off their hands to go have it appraised, bring it back to have it set, etc.?

 

[mypak]

Date: 9/18/2006 10:06:15 PM
Author: kcoursolle
I''m in LA and used patrick davis (from this website) and he was friendly, informative, and reasonably priced.

Hi, how does the actual jeweler handle this? How do they basically ensur that you bring it back? Assume you had already paid before you took the diamond in for appraisal or took it to be appraised first? Thanks...

 

[mypak]

After reading a few more posts here, got some more questions...

I''m planning on buying a diamond in the L.A. jewelry mart...basically will be approx 30,000 for the diamond based on preliminary discussions...

Based on what I''ve read all diamonds basically always get "appraised" at much higher numbers...which makes people "feel good"...

For this dollar amt, I assume it is worthwhile getting an official appraisal vs. getting the basics checked out by a gemologist (cost approx$25 from what I''ve read)?

Also, as far as insurance, seems like appraisal does not even matter (as for Chubb) since they go off the "receipt" of what I actually paid so if it appraises for much more, not like I''d have to worry about paying a higher premium since the insurance co. wouldn''t see the actual appraisal since they don''t require it....

Thoughts/comments?

 

[kcoursolle]

You can either do two things, have the jeweler send it to your gemologist and you can sit in while it''s appraised and purchase it afterwards, or you can purchase from a jeweler with a good return policy, make a purchase, and then have it appriased...and return it if it doesn''t work out. Not all jewelers are willing to do the first one, but the good ones should. I choose option number two. I purchased from an online vendor (james allen), took it to patrick, and then decided to keep it.

Before you purchase at the LA jewelry district be sure to arm yourself with knowledge. There are some good deals there, but quality is hard to find unless you know what you are doing. Please, please, please, learn about cut quality before you go out there!!! How a diamond is cut determines it''s appearance more than any other factor.

You should also purchase an ideal scope to better help evaluate the stones light return. This is a must in a large setting like a jewelry mart!

 

[kcoursolle]

Other things...

Besides getting the diamond appraised, it would be smart to buy a certified diamond. GIA and AGS are the best, and EGL...is less strict. Anything else...be careful!!!

 

[mypak]

Date: 9/18/2006 11:26:57 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Other things...

Besides getting the diamond appraised, it would be smart to buy a certified diamond. GIA and AGS are the best, and EGL...is less strict. Anything else...be careful!!!

Thanks so much for the info...yes I will definitely require a GIA certification....

Also, what is the ideal scope? I had not heard of that

I assume the GIA report will have info on the cut, etc. or is that info contained elsewhere?

thanks...

 

[kcoursolle]

Here''s some ideal scope info:

https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp




Also, read the tutorials on this site and goodoldgold.com to gain some diamond knowledge, it''s rough out there!

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/18/2006 11:01:19 PM
Author: mypak
After reading a few more posts here, got some more questions...

I''m planning on buying a diamond in the L.A. jewelry mart...basically will be approx 30,000 for the diamond based on preliminary discussions...

Based on what I''ve read all diamonds basically always get ''appraised'' at much higher numbers...which makes people ''feel good''...

For this dollar amt, I assume it is worthwhile getting an official appraisal vs. getting the basics checked out by a gemologist (cost approx$25 from what I''ve read)?

Also, as far as insurance, seems like appraisal does not even matter (as for Chubb) since they go off the ''receipt'' of what I actually paid so if it appraises for much more, not like I''d have to worry about paying a higher premium since the insurance co. wouldn''t see the actual appraisal since they don''t require it....

Thoughts/comments?

I am from LA too and I bought a couple of diamonds from the jewelry mart. Some of the prices of the vendors are very competitive but you need to check the rapport and the price stats posted in PS to make sure. Always negotiate to get the best price. Most reputable jewelers will let you take the stone to the appraiser before purchase but they would send representatives to go with you and the stone. There is an independent appraiser in the 2nd floor of St. Vincente plaza and he is very well respected. Since you definitely need tol buy a stone with cert, the first step is to take the stone to the appraiser to confirm the cert matches the stone (~$35) and check if there is any surface imperfections that might have occurred after the certification. Call or meet the appraiser afterwards when he can inform you any problems with the stone that he probably can''t in front of the jeweler representative. If the stone meets your expectations, purchase it and have it set. Then take it back to the appraiser with the setting so he can write an official appraisal report ($~120) and reconfirm the stone is not somehow switched.

 

[mypak]

Date: 9/19/2006 2:41:35 AM
Author: maxspinel

Date: 9/18/2006 11:01:19 PM
Author: mypak
After reading a few more posts here, got some more questions...

I''m planning on buying a diamond in the L.A. jewelry mart...basically will be approx 30,000 for the diamond based on preliminary discussions...

Based on what I''ve read all diamonds basically always get ''appraised'' at much higher numbers...which makes people ''feel good''...

For this dollar amt, I assume it is worthwhile getting an official appraisal vs. getting the basics checked out by a gemologist (cost approx$25 from what I''ve read)?

Also, as far as insurance, seems like appraisal does not even matter (as for Chubb) since they go off the ''receipt'' of what I actually paid so if it appraises for much more, not like I''d have to worry about paying a higher premium since the insurance co. wouldn''t see the actual appraisal since they don''t require it....

Thoughts/comments?

I am from LA too and I bought a couple of diamonds from the jewelry mart. Some of the prices of the vendors are very competitive but you need to check the rapport and the price stats posted in PS to make sure. Always negotiate to get the best price. Most reputable jewelers will let you take the stone to the appraiser before purchase but they would send representatives to go with you and the stone. There is an independent appraiser in the 2nd floor of St. Vincente plaza and he is very well respected. Since you definitely need tol buy a stone with cert, the first step is to take the stone to the appraiser to confirm the cert matches the stone (~$35) and check if there is any surface imperfections that might have occurred after the certification. Call or meet the appraiser afterwards when he can inform you any problems with the stone that he probably can''t in front of the jeweler representative. If the stone meets your expectations, purchase it and have it set. Then take it back to the appraiser with the setting so he can write an official appraisal report ($~120) and reconfirm the stone is not somehow switched.

Thanks...I was actually looking to buy in St. Vincent''s also...do you happen to remember the name of the appraiser on the 2nd floor? thanks...

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/19/2006 10:13:00 AM
Author: mypak

Thanks...I was actually looking to buy in St. Vincent''s also...do you happen to remember the name of the appraiser on the 2nd floor? thanks...

I am not sure if I can quote the name. Anyway, it is "International Gem Trade Lab" and it is on the 2nd floor of St. Vincent. You can take the elevator to go up to 2nd floor and they are right there across from the elevator.

BTW, which store from St. Vincent''s are you buying your diamond? You definitely need an accredited independent appraiser to check it out. I was looking at a 5 ct round diamond a while back in a store in St. Vincent. The diamond was already mounted in a 3 stone ring setting with two baguette sides. When I louped the center round diamond, the inclusions shown in the cert do not match the stone

. I got really suspicious so I asked the dealer to check the dimension of the stone using a Gauge. The diameter was off and smaller than the cert. The cert said the diamond was supposed to be 5.00 ct, F color SI2. Based on the dimension and the warmth of the color, I am guessing the diamond was closer to J color, and not quite 5 carats. I didn''t even have to take it to the appraiser to know the dealer tried to misrespresent a diamond using another cert . In another incident, a friend of mine got a 3 carat diamond necklace from St. Vincent at a fantastic price. Sadly, half of the diamonds turned out to be moissanites. She found out a year later with the moissanite tester.

The bottom line is be careful especially when you are going to spend $30,000. I just bought a pink diamond from Feldi in St. Vincent. Even though the dealer looks reputable, I still took the stone to the apprasier to confirm before I purchased it.

Besides St. Vincent, there are other stores that are located across the street in a higher-end plaza, further west in Hill St. towards the park. A couple of them specialize in loose diamonds. If you have time, you can also check it out.

Good luck

 

[mypak]

Date: 9/20/2006 3:15:05 AM
Author: maxspinel

Date: 9/19/2006 10:13:00 AM
Author: mypak

Thanks...I was actually looking to buy in St. Vincent's also...do you happen to remember the name of the appraiser on the 2nd floor? thanks...

I am not sure if I can quote the name. Anyway, it is 'International Gem Trade Lab' and it is on the 2nd floor of St. Vincent. You can take the elevator to go up to 2nd floor and they are right there across from the elevator.

BTW, which store from St. Vincent's are you buying your diamond? You definitely need an accredited independent appraiser to check it out. I was looking at a 5 ct round diamond a while back in a store in St. Vincent. The diamond was already mounted in a 3 stone ring setting with two baguette sides. When I louped the center round diamond, the inclusions shown in the cert do not match the stone

. I got really suspicious so I asked the dealer to check the dimension of the stone using a Gauge. The diameter was off and smaller than the cert. The cert said the diamond was supposed to be 5.00 ct, F color SI2. Based on the dimension and the warmth of the color, I am guessing the diamond was closer to J color, and not quite 5 carats. I didn't even have to take it to the appraiser to know the dealer tried to misrespresent a diamond using another cert . In another incident, a friend of mine got a 3 carat diamond necklace from St. Vincent at a fantastic price. Sadly, half of the diamonds turned out to be moissanites. She found out a year later with the moissanite tester.

The bottom line is be careful especially when you are going to spend $30,000. I just bought a pink diamond from Feldi in St. Vincent. Even though the dealer looks reputable, I still took the stone to the apprasier to confirm before I purchased it.

Besides St. Vincent, there are other stores that are located across the street in a higher-end plaza, further west in Hill St. towards the park. A couple of them specialize in loose diamonds. If you have time, you can also check it out.

Good luck

they are seemingly nice/honest people but I will def have it checked out first esp for that dollar amt...it will be a loose stone to inspect, they are already working on the custom setting but I will prob go down before then to pick out a diamond and have it appraised before purchasing it...the shop I'm dealing with is called christian jewelry...def don't get the slimeball impression from them but they are still running a business so I will check all angles before buying anything (appraisal as well as making sure it matches the cert)....

I went with my girlfriend and we both felt comfortable with them...we went to one other place upstairs and there really was no differentiation in settings...after a while they all looked the same and there was one at the first place she liked (although we customized it somewhat)....plus this particular guy gave the cheap used car salesman vibe, very strong, pressured sales pitch which was a huge turnoff....kept trying to get me to put down a deposit on a "rare" hearts and arrow diamond which costs around 30k but appraised at over 50k...whatever...

my impression is that the diamond I'm looking for (about a 2 ct, E or F, good cut, I have the other details at home...for about 30k) shouldn't be hard to find...if they don't have it, they can find someone that does so after that it's just a matter of checking out the cert and getting an appraisal...so since you can basically buy the diamond "anywhere" then have it checked before buying, may as well buy from someone you feel comfortable with, etc...they also said they only buy diamonds from Israel b/c they are the best quality if that means anything...

comments?

 

[kcoursolle]

Cut is the number one thing you should be looking for to make your diamond sparkle and shine. Be picky about cut and really consider buying the ideal scope. Here are some parameters that people here consider to be a well-cut round here although people have differing preferences. If you wanted to save money, you could go down to a lower color without much if any visual difference.

Depth 60-62%
Table 54-57%
Crown/Pavilion Angles 34.5-35.0/40.5-40.9

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/20/2006 12:57:35 PM
Author: mypak

they are seemingly nice/honest people but I will def have it checked out first esp for that dollar amt...it will be a loose stone to inspect, they are already working on the custom setting but I will prob go down before then to pick out a diamond and have it appraised before purchasing it...the shop I''m dealing with is called christian jewelry...def don''t get the slimeball impression from them but they are still running a business so I will check all angles before buying anything (appraisal as well as making sure it matches the cert)....

I went with my girlfriend and we both felt comfortable with them...we went to one other place upstairs and there really was no differentiation in settings...after a while they all looked the same and there was one at the first place she liked (although we customized it somewhat)....plus this particular guy gave the cheap used car salesman vibe, very strong, pressured sales pitch which was a huge turnoff....kept trying to get me to put down a deposit on a ''rare'' hearts and arrow diamond which costs around 30k but appraised at over 50k...whatever...

my impression is that the diamond I''m looking for (about a 2 ct, E or F, good cut, I have the other details at home...for about 30k) shouldn''t be hard to find...if they don''t have it, they can find someone that does so after that it''s just a matter of checking out the cert and getting an appraisal...so since you can basically buy the diamond ''anywhere'' then have it checked before buying, may as well buy from someone you feel comfortable with, etc...they also said they only buy diamonds from Israel b/c they are the best quality if that means anything...

comments?

I just came back from St. Vincente today after picking up my diamond pendant. I haven''t dealth with Christian but there are so many of them in the jewelry mart. The retailers are in the ground level while the wholesalers are located above. Even though the dealer might not have what you like in their stock, it is fairly easy for them to get it from the wholesalers. You are right that you should deal with someone that your are comfortable with but make sure that you follow the correct process no matter how reputable the dealer looks.

I''ve seen that some dealers try to sell so called "H&A" stones and they even give you a viewer to look at the heart and arrows. The interesting thing is the GIA symmetry of these stones are sometimes just good and the hearts and arrows don''t even line up. Anyhow, after a while, you will develope an eye for them and note that not all diamonds are the same. Some do sparkle more due to a better cut, D/E/F color are icy and colorless, unlike the lower color grade which exhibits a warmer color, some VS2 stones have very noticeable inclusions right under the table while others off at the crown.

But if you are looking for a round diamond, almost all you need to know is technically in the GIA/AGS certificate. There are depth%, table%, pavillion and crown angle data in the cert that you can plug them in a program in pricescope to calculate a score for fire/brilliance/scillination display. However, there is a balance for everything. When a stone is rated at excellent or sometime very good, visually, a lot of people cannot discern much diffrence in the sparkle from the super ideal cut. Some people that are very sensitive can but I know I can''t. I''ve seen some AGS000 side by side with GIA excellent/very good, I really can''t tell the difference and iof course, I am not willing to pay a premium for something that I can''t even see.

Like I said, the prices in Jeweler Mart is very competitive. With some haggling, you should not have a problem getting a diamond very close to the price statistics in price scope. I attached the data for reference but you can search for it yourself.

 

[mypak]

Date: 9/20/2006 5:33:13 PM
Author: maxspinel

Date: 9/20/2006 12:57:35 PM
Author: mypak

they are seemingly nice/honest people but I will def have it checked out first esp for that dollar amt...it will be a loose stone to inspect, they are already working on the custom setting but I will prob go down before then to pick out a diamond and have it appraised before purchasing it...the shop I''m dealing with is called christian jewelry...def don''t get the slimeball impression from them but they are still running a business so I will check all angles before buying anything (appraisal as well as making sure it matches the cert)....

I went with my girlfriend and we both felt comfortable with them...we went to one other place upstairs and there really was no differentiation in settings...after a while they all looked the same and there was one at the first place she liked (although we customized it somewhat)....plus this particular guy gave the cheap used car salesman vibe, very strong, pressured sales pitch which was a huge turnoff....kept trying to get me to put down a deposit on a ''rare'' hearts and arrow diamond which costs around 30k but appraised at over 50k...whatever...

my impression is that the diamond I''m looking for (about a 2 ct, E or F, good cut, I have the other details at home...for about 30k) shouldn''t be hard to find...if they don''t have it, they can find someone that does so after that it''s just a matter of checking out the cert and getting an appraisal...so since you can basically buy the diamond ''anywhere'' then have it checked before buying, may as well buy from someone you feel comfortable with, etc...they also said they only buy diamonds from Israel b/c they are the best quality if that means anything...

comments?

I just came back from St. Vincente today after picking up my diamond pendant. I haven''t dealth with Christian but there are so many of them in the jewelry mart. The retailers are in the ground level while the wholesalers are located above. Even though the dealer might not have what you like in their stock, it is fairly easy for them to get it from the wholesalers. You are right that you should deal with someone that your are comfortable with but make sure that you follow the correct process no matter how reputable the dealer looks.

I''ve seen that some dealers try to sell so called ''H&A'' stones and they even give you a viewer to look at the heart and arrows. The interesting thing is the GIA symmetry of these stones are sometimes just good and the hearts and arrows don''t even line up. Anyhow, after a while, you will develope an eye for them and note that not all diamonds are the same. Some do sparkle more due to a better cut, D/E/F color are icy and colorless, unlike the lower color grade which exhibits a warmer color, some VS2 stones have very noticeable inclusions right under the table while others off at the crown.

But if you are looking for a round diamond, almost all you need to know is technically in the GIA/AGS certificate. There are depth%, table%, pavillion and crown angle data in the cert that you can plug them in a program in pricescope to calculate a score for fire/brilliance/scillination display. However, there is a balance for everything. When a stone is rated at excellent or sometime very good, visually, a lot of people cannot discern much diffrence in the sparkle from the super ideal cut. Some people that are very sensitive can but I know I can''t. I''ve seen some AGS000 side by side with GIA excellent/very good, I really can''t tell the difference and iof course, I am not willing to pay a premium for something that I can''t even see.

Like I said, the prices in Jeweler Mart is very competitive. With some haggling, you should not have a problem getting a diamond very close to the price statistics in price scope. I attached the data for reference but you can search for it yourself.

Thanks for the feedback, I''ll prob head down in about a week to see how the custom setting is going and look into diamonds...when you mention dealing with someone you are comfortable with but following the right process, I take it that process is: making sure there is a GIA certificate, making sure the diamond matches that, and getting an appraisal?

thanks...