questions for Paul-Antwerp. does your Co. shoot for AGS 0 on every princess cut?...

[Dancing Fire]

and what would be the smallest size ? is it worth having a princess stone recut into an ags 0?

 

[DiamondExpert]

Paul is sleeping right now, sorry...

...but the answer to your main query is "yes".

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I am awake now. Thank you for the patience.

Do we shoot for AGS 0 on every princess cut? The answer is yes, and with experience growing, we are more and more successful at it. Every now and then, we experiment with a different set of proportions, and some of these end up with a light-performance grade of 1.

Smallest size in production is 0.30 Cts, but in the smaller sizes, we experiment more often.

Recutting? It is much more complicated than recutting rounds. And weight losses in re-cutting quickly reach a level of around 30%. Thus, the number of stones, possible to re-cut efficiently is extremely low.

Leonid, I hope that this post did not cross the line of self-promotion. It definitely is not my intention.

Live long,

 

[Antwerpman]

Self Promotion, Self Promotion, burn him burn him

I hope you keep hitting those AGS 0 bullseyes buddy and remember I am still waiting to see one

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 6/17/2005 7:45:13 AM
Author: Antwerpman
Self Promotion, Self Promotion, burn him burn him

I hope you keep hitting those AGS 0 bullseyes buddy and remember I am still waiting to see one

So, why don''t you come see some. You are more than welcome. Be sure to bring your sunglasses.

 

[Regular Guy]

Three more, and related questions?

1) Is there much variance between what the cutter sets out to do, and what they turn out, generally.

2) How about the amount of variance between a bad cutter and a good one (one in training, and one experienced?)

3) What essentially is the cutter doing, to do the cuts?

Many thanks,

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 6/17/2005 7:24:31 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Three more, and related questions?

1) Is there much variance between what the cutter sets out to do, and what they turn out, generally.

2) How about the amount of variance between a bad cutter and a good one (one in training, and one experienced?)

3) What essentially is the cutter doing, to do the cuts?

Many thanks,

Paul might answer this from his perspective and business goals, but here my opinion on the answers to your questions.


1) I think to a degree it depends on the level of the manufacturer. At the most direct level, the sightholder, he basically is getting from De Beers what they want to provide him with. In the new Supplier of Choice, De Beers is supposed to be a lot more responsive to supplying the siteholder with a bit more selection as to their preferences.

At this level, the siteholder decides what he wants to manufacture (cuts) and sells off what he doesn''t or isn''t able to produce. That decision is made based on what his company sets out to achieve. Their experts will analyze the piece of rough and determine what they will get from it. In the there is still a demand for non AGS princesses - he may have cutters and want to cut as fast as possible or yield as much weight as possible.

Certain individual pieces of rough, will lend itself to being more economically feasaable to be manufactured for weight retention, and others may qualify for what Paul wants.

To a degree Paul is in a better position than some sightholders. He can cherry pick based on his intended cutting parameters, and selective get what he needs. The sightholder is going to depend on selling off the excess supply of diamonds to other cutters/ dealers etc.

In order to get the AGS 0 cut, a lot more attention and time has to be spent in making sure he gets the parameters in sync with AGS''s cutting requirements to get that grading he wants. Some sightholders, may not want to invest that sort of time in the manufacturing scenario.

Another factor is how good is the person ( usually not the cutter) who marks the stone for how the planning of the faceting process is to be done. In larger more valuable rough this is darn crucial. Analyzing and planning how the rough should be manufactured is a real talent, involving a lot more complex decisions, that one can list here without writing a full blown book on what considerations need to be made.

Cutting diamonds to a degree is like playing roulette. It''s a gamble, since until you actually finish the stone, you really don''t accurately know if your estimate of color, clarity, weight retention works out to what you originally anticipated. It just isn''t that simple. In recent years technology is playing a more important part in this, with the advent of rough analysis machines, computers, the octopus, lasers, laser saws, more advanced polishing equipment etc.

2) RE; Bad cutters vs. Good Cutters... I''m not sure this really applies. I am of the opinion that trainees are given minor size stones to "practice" on and gain the experience of improving their craft. I think a more appropriate separation of the skill of cutters is a personal to say one is more experienced, takes additional pride in the finished product, and/or applies more artisic skill in bringing out the best in a stone.


3) What is the cutter doing? I think that varies based on how challenging the material is, and this is influenced by the answers above. A lot of this has to do with the difficulty the cutter has with each stone he cuts - more particularly with higher quality or size.


But basically, cutters and the folks involved in cutting, are going to base their decisions on what is more financially advantageous to them.

I think the above is fairly accurate although far from totally comprehensive. Paul may have a different opinion of what I''ve written, and he may have some very astute, informative and valuable comment to add, as I am sure I didn''t cover all the considerations here.


Ira, hope this helps.
Rockdoc

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/17/2005 4:29:23 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I am awake now. Thank you for the patience.

Do we shoot for AGS 0 on every princess cut? The answer is yes, and with experience growing, we are more and more successful at it. Every now and then, we experiment with a different set of proportions, and some of these end up with a light-performance grade of 1.

Smallest size in production is 0.30 Cts, but in the smaller sizes, we experiment more often.

Recutting? It is much more complicated than recutting rounds. And weight losses in re-cutting quickly reach a level of around 30%. Thus, the number of stones, possible to re-cut efficiently is extremely low.

Leonid, I hope that this post did not cross the line of self-promotion. It definitely is not my intention.

Live long,

WOW!!! 30% i guess there''s no reasons to do a recut,unless you got 2 chiped corners.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 6/17/2005 7:24:31 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Three more, and related questions?

1) Is there much variance between what the cutter sets out to do, and what they turn out, generally.

2) How about the amount of variance between a bad cutter and a good one (one in training, and one experienced?)

3) What essentially is the cutter doing, to do the cuts?

Many thanks,

Hi Regular,

Rockdoc touches some very interesting subjects in his post, but I think that your questions are meant differently.

1) The problem is not really between the goal and the result of the cutter. There is always some variance, but this can be limited. Although, in rounds, the equipment is better, and it is easier to minimize this variance than in fancy shapes.

What happens is the following: we mostly work with sawable rough stone, thus stones that need to be sawn in order to get two cut stones. When planning the rough, we first concentrate on the biggest and purest stone. Here, we work with a set of proportions that is nicely within the 0-combinations, in order to be sure about the future 0-grade, even with little variation in cutting.

On the second stone, we get a problem of magic weights and we often need to go for a new set of proportions with 0-grade. Often, we need to experiment with a combination at the borderline of the 0-cutting-guidelines in order to stay above a magic weight. Experimenting in this way teaches us a lot, but the smallest variation can land us with a 1-grade instead of a 0.

2. I have no idea about the difference between a good and a bad cutter. Some very good cutters cannot handle our way of working, while others (which some might judge as ''bad'') are very good in our quest for minute details. Since cutting is a matter of teamwork, there is also little difference between a very experienced and a rather young cutter. Some procedures can best be taken care of by one cutter, while another one can specialize in another part of the stone.

3. What do we do, essentially? We plan, check, plan again, re-check, perform an action, check again, plan again, perform another action, check again, plan again, and so on and on and on and on.

Hope this was somewhat clear,

 

[Regular Guy]

Thank you Rock & Paul,

Actually, I found your answers were rather complementary, and clearly, it is understood that the "analysis" of the rough is seen as the key aspect of the job of the cutter. Nevertheless, I suppose it's more narrowly #3 I'm especially curious about, and so Paul, where you say...

Date: 6/19/2005 5:07:00 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 6/17/2005 7:24:31 PM
Author: Regular Guy

3) What essentially is the cutter doing, to do the cuts?

3. What do we do, essentially? We plan, check, plan again, re-check, perform an action, check again, plan again, perform another action, check again, plan again, and so on and on and on and on.

....thinking more along the lines of Feydakin's piece on Ludel's book, I was especially interested to know in how you cut the stone, per se. You mention, for example, above, sawing. What kind of saw is it? No chisels, right? What actions are performed on the stone to get it to have the angles it will have? That sort of thing.

Thanks for humoring me.

 

[RockDoc]

Ira wrote

....thinking more along the lines of Feydakin''s piece on setting a stone, and possibly Ludel''s book, I was especially interested to know in how you cut the stone, per se. You mention, for example, above, sawing. What kind of saw is it? No chisels, right? What actions are performed on the stone to get it to have the angles it will have? That sort of thing.
Thanks for humoring me.
Ira Z.
__________________


If you''re truly interested in seeing diamond sawing etc. I''d advise you to get the Video tape about Antwerp Diamond cutting that is sold by HRD. It isn''t pricey at all, and is a wonderful way to see a lot of the cutting information.

It is a very amazing visual piece that really shows a lot about Antwerp and diamond cutting.

HRD has a place in Canada you can order it from, and probably also on their website, or alternatively maybe Paul can get it for you as well.

Rockdoc