Questions about old diamond papers and diamond 1979

[20GT]

Hi my dad bought this diamond back in 1979.
Are these papers what official papers looked like back then?
My mom is wanting to sell it.
any help finding the correct evaluation price or other information would great.

Thanks Steve M

 

[teobdl]

You'd probably need to get it re-appraised for the current market. Technology and precision cuts have evolved tremendously, even in the past 15 years.
Find a list of PS approved appraisers here: https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers . I think appraisals cost between $50-150.

After the appraisal, it's up to you and a buyer to determine the true market value

 

[kenny]

I'd send it to GIA to get it graded.
Then compare the grades to what's for sale now online.

IMHO the only use of an appraisal is so you know what to insure it for when you ship it USPS Registered to GIA, and if there is a loss you have a document establishing today's value.
Appraised 'values' are all over the map, because unlike an ounce of gold, the value of the same diamond varies tremendously depending on where and how you are selling it.

Then decide how you want to sell it.
A pawn shop is the fastest way to get cash but it will be the lowest price.
Consignment with a reputable Internet vendor like Good Old Gold will get you the highest price if they accept it and you can wait a long time for it to sell.
You can sell it yourself on diamondbistro or loupetroup.

 

[LibbyLA]

Don't let that inflated appraisal value fool you! The paperwork says that it is a 1.37 carat old European cut, so it's a nice-sized diamond, but not huge.

Here's hoping that the depth percentage is wrong because 43% is very, very, very shallow. It should be (wide range ballpark, not meaning that the lower and upper ends of this range are desirable) 58-70% deep. Just based on one website I found, it faces up like a 1.5 ct. round brilliant, so it looks a bit larger than it really is.

Kenny's suggestion to get it graded is the way to go. That way, you'll know exactly what you have. Just be aware that GIA isn't "kind" to older cuts so it may get not-so-good ratings for cut, symmetry, etc. However, people who like old cuts tend to be more forgiving about those things than people shopping for modern round brilliants.

There's a somewhat similar diamond for sale now on the preloved forum here, not as high a color or clarity, but both heavier and larger and mounted in a very nice platinum setting for $5200, and with a grading report from EGL (which doesn't have as good a reputation as GIA, but it's more accepted by people shopping for old cuts than by people shopping for modern cuts).

http://diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/34615/165-Ct-Old-European-Cut-Platinum-Solitaire.html

I'm not saying that this is exactly comparable, but it gives you an idea that what you have probably isn't worth even close to what the 1979 appraisal amount is, much less an appreciated value over the 30+ years since the appraisal.

liz

Edited to add: based on the numbers on the report, I think that the depth and table numbers are reversed (or there's a typo in the depth). The depth calculates to be 53% (still too shallow, but not nearly as bad as 43%). The table could be either 43% (although that's pretty tiny for an OEC) or 53%.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'
IMHO the only use of an appraisal is so you know what to insure it for when you ship it USPS Registered to GIA, and if there is a loss you have a document establishing today's value.
.

Not surprisingly, I disagree with Kenny here. I find professional advice to be very helpful in this sort of situation, at least carefully chosen professional advice. A consignment jeweler is not such a bad place to get 'free' advice if you like but bear in mind that the question being answered by a consignment seller is 'How much can you sell this for?' The question you're actually trying to get answered is 'What's the best way to sell this?'. These are not the same and I beg to differ with the presumption that Internet is the best way to sell a poorly cut Euro (assuming that's what it is although the evidence is weak so this may not be valid). I even disagree that GIA is necessarily the best place to get this pedigreed or that lab grading is the first place to start. It's decently likely that GIA will call that a 'poor' cut round brilliant and that's a deal killer for nearly any buyer who is picky enough to be looking for a VVS clarity (unless you're charging SI prices so it doesn't matter).

On one point I do agree. Professional services in terms of selling, as in a commission sales deal, is often worth the trouble and expense. This is a very specialized product and amateurs usually seem to get skinned. Choosing your partner wisely is important and although I have no problem with Kenny's friends, I certainly don't think they're the only ones out there who could do a good job for you.

 

[kenny]

I'm unbiased because I do not make money from posting here.

 

[Circe]

Agree with OldMiner. Appraisals serve a purpose when they're done right (and, frankly, as a consumer, you ALWAYS want a second opinion, because nobody but nobody is either, a) infallible, or, b) trustworthy). If you decide to consign , that's great, but you should have a better idea of what it is you have on your hands, and the chance to talk to more than one person about the state of the market.

P.S. - I actually quite like GOG myself, and would consign with them without a qualm ... But I think choosing a merchant for this task should be Step 2 on the path to Step 3 (which is, to quote "South Park," obviously "Profit!").

 

[CharmyPoo]

If it was me, I would send it to EGL-USA and get a report and then look for compareable prices on ebay, JbEG, pre-loved forum, diamondbistro, loupe troop, and also get some feedback on here. I would then decide on a fair private seller price and post it on diamondbistro, loupe troop and pre-loved to try to sell it. If I get no bites or need a fast sell, I would try selling it on ebay.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm unbiased because I do not make money from posting here.

That doesn't make you unbaised, but one thing you are is an anonymous stranger who has far less than complete information. THAT doesn't make you wrong, but it's a relevant piece of the decision. We don't know what the merchandise is. We don't know the client's objectives and requirements. The client isn't even the person who asked the question!

 

[20GT]

thanks for all the reply's.

So it must be safe to send your diamond through the mail, because most of you talk of it?
Seems crazy to me.
but you say insured, so how much do i get it insured for?
or are you saying get it appraised in town? then shipped off for a full diagnostic.

if i was to try to sell it in town are there any brand name franchises that buy older diamonds?

 

[diamond-enthusiast]

I think most consumers who are even looking to buy a diamond from someone on 2nd hand basis will probably be looking for a lab report for security purposes. For dealers who have experience dealing in diamonds, they could possibly give you a quote. Will they short change you? It's likely in my opinion. There's no way to tell when you don't even have a basis to judge a stone's value based on old papers. With a grading report from say GIA, you can establish a rough idea of worth. An appraisal by some "unknown" lab can give you an idea but would the person buying on your stone trust the report? Most likely not.

The question is, who do you trust? Well, I trust GIA.That's just my opinion. Others might think otherwise.

 

[CharmyPoo]

When I purchase second hand, I honestly could care less about an appraisal but would value a GIA, AGS or EGL-USA report much more. The reports are far more consistent than appraisal reports. I have done informal polls and people always say appraisers have a WIDE range so I really have no way of judging how accurate the appraisals are unless it is someone I used before.

What city do you live in?

 

[denverappraiser]

An appraisal report is a terrible advertisement and using it as such is usually an ineffective plan.

An insurance replacement valuation report isn't very useful for other purposes, like setting resale prices. In particular, the value conclusion is irrelevant, even if it's correct.

The usual reason to seek out resale appraisals is to provide useful information for the client's decision making process. Some of the key questions have come out in the above discussion. What lab to use, why, and how to interact with them? What are the reasonable expectations from the lab? Is it worth the time and expense given these expectations and the client's objectives/needs? What are the available marketplaces and what are the advantages and disadvantages of the various options. Would repairs or recutting be helpful? Would it be better to market it as a piece of jewelery or an unmounted stone? Is it likely to be popular or a slow seller? What's an appropriate price to try and get from a particular marketing plan and how should that be expected to work? What are the risks?

None of this is available from the lab.
Most of this is unavailable without looking at the goods.
Most of this is unavailable from an Internet forum.

 

[denverappraiser]

thanks for all the reply's.

So it must be safe to send your diamond through the mail, because most of you talk of it?
Seems crazy to me.
but you say insured, so how much do i get it insured for?
or are you saying get it appraised in town? then shipped off for a full diagnostic.

if i was to try to sell it in town are there any brand name franchises that buy older diamonds?

My advice is to have your Mom start with an appraisal. There's a list of local appraisers under the resources tab at the top of the page. Tell the appraiser what you want to know and ask questions. I gave a few in my last post that might be helpful but she may have others as well. If the advice involves sending it to a lab, get advice on which one to use. Assuming she's in the US, USPS registered mail is secure and inexpensive or you can insure the item (using the report from the appraiser and www.jewelersmutual.com) and then ship vial FedEx. Ask the appraiser what an appropriate insurance limit is.

The brand name jewelers you're familiar with mostly don't buy from the public but your appraiser may be able to tell you some local companies who do if you ask.

 

[IE_Princess]

As a consumer in the old cut market, I hate when appraisals are used to sell a piece. The useful information they give me estimated percentages and one person's opinion regarding cut, color, and clarity, and I assume that those criteria may come in lower in an actual certification situation. I would much rather have a lab certificate accompany a stone than an appraisal. I also know from my own experience that appraisals inflate the value all the way to mall retail values and have no true bearing on what a person should expect to get on the secondary market. I had to laugh at the appraisal value given to my inherited MRB .94 I-J I1 set on a plain $300 14K gold band.