Question on color of Brian Gavin and Whiteflash diamonds

[BoDuke]

Hi Everyone. I have been in the market for a diamond for the last 2 months and over that time I have been educating myself on diamonds. I am becoming more educated on diamonds every day. Everyone here on PriceScope has been extremely helpful. For that I say thanks. Now I am asking for some more help. My question relates to color and two vendors in particular, Brian Gavin and Whiteflash. My reasons for targeting these two vendors are:

1. They are in Houston (so am I)
2. They seem very reputable
3. They focus on ideal diamonds, Brian Gavin Signature and A Cut Above

When I look through their online inventory of BGS and ACA stones, all of their RBC diamonds above 2.4 carats are H/I in color. Why is that? My wife is super sensitive to color. We have been looking in the D/E/F range for GIA stones, 2.4+ carats. I'm having a hard time making the leap to H/I color. Can anyone help explain?

Thanks in advance.

BoDuke

 

[heididdl]

Many in house graded stones seem to be g/h h/i etc. This is one reason why you stick with GIA or AGS certified stones. Many of us feel on PS that even color sensitive folks will be more than happy in the G- H range. DEF is really the 1% of the popular than has no money issues and so they just can buy it. The cut is the most important aspect of your stone. Both of the vendors you are research will be able to find you a great stone. Good luck and have fun. When you see the vendor ask to see GIA DE or F next to a G or H stone and see how truly color sensitive you are. If you are comparing to a Kay Jeweler ring you are talking apples and oranges when comparing Kay to a GIA stone.

 

[TC1987]

D/E/F colors are more rare, to start with. Price may be another issue that drives the market. It might be tough to sell a high volume of 2ct D/E due to the high price, so maybe cutters cut more smaller diamonds from that rough.

And then, maybe the vendors get few requests for large stones in that color range, so those stones are more of a special-order item than an in-house item. Those stones might tend to sit at the cutters' place(s) until they are ordered, rather than kept in inventory at stores.

It'll be interesting to hear what the Trade people say.

 

[LLJsmom]

I have a 1 carat GIA F and a 1 carat AGS G from Whiteflash. I like the colors that come off the F more. The WF Stone Is AGS 000, expert selection. From what I see, both stones throw off light, just different colors. I see more white, shades of blue and lavendar and silver reflections from the F while the G seems to reflect more multicolored light. From far away, the WF stone G seems more sparkly, but up close I prefer the sparkle from the F more. However the cut of the F is just very good. It's 17 years old, before GIA gave cut grades. This is just my preference.

 

[BoDuke]

Yes, I totally agree on sticking with GIA and/or AGS. We have limited our search to GIA or AGS diamonds only. We have also limited our search to GIA excellent cut and symmetry diamonds as well. However, I understand there can be a large range in GIA's grading of cut. That is why BG and WF were appealing. But their lack of E/F/G inventory is puzzling to me. We have looked at many GIA diamonds of various color grades and we can tell the difference. Just trying to understand if there is a reason for BG and WF to choose diamonds in the H/I color range when there appears to be a decent selection of D/E/F/G GIA diamonds available online....

 

[WillyDiamond]

Well, it might be the big price jump.......on the BGD site for his Signature diamond, I saw both a 2.28ct diamond, one was a G the other and I, the price difference was about $19,000! Some might say.......WOW!
edit: $20K vs. $39K.......WOW!

 

[TC1987]

Good Old Gold only lists 5 stones for H&A, 2.3 - 3ct, D / E/ F color range. None is in-house, and all are F color. Maybe they are just not that common. Maybe cut more for weight retention than superideal performance, too, since most or maybe all of those had only the Limited Guarantee and were not in-house.

 

[BoDuke]

Yes, $19K price jump seems a little steep for one color grade difference.

Maybe TC1987's comment on the diamond being cut for weight retention plays into WillyD's observation on the large price increase for just 1 color grade better. I haven't seen that big of a price jump when comparing with GIA diamonds with 1 color grade difference.

Still curious to hear other POV's on the question.

Thanks!!

 

[Gypsy]

Diamonds that large are an expensive investment. So jewelers will go with what most customers will buy. Which in those sizes is not normally D-F.

That said, your wife will probably be fine with a G.

And they can always source GIA stones for you. Just ask them to. Then you can go and see them in person and chose what you like.

I've worked with Brian Gavin on 3 projects and they are very focused on Customer care. So if you want something, just ask.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, $19K price jump seems a little steep for one color grade difference.

Maybe TC1987's comment on the diamond being cut for weight retention plays into WillyD's observation on the large price increase for just 1 color grade better. I haven't seen that big of a price jump when comparing with GIA diamonds with 1 color grade difference.

Still curious to hear other POV's on the question.

Thanks!!

Two color grade higher ...G vs I

 

[BoDuke]

Thanks for the correction. I missed that. Still seems steep for 2 color grade difference, but I'm new at this.

 

[KenD]

I believe that as diamonds become larger, inclusions become easier to see. So, as you seek out an "eye-clean" diamond, larger in size, you might want to focus on stones that have a higher clarity grade. This is especially true, if you are trying to find a "super premium" diamond. Larger diamonds, with a color grade of D/E/F, with a higher clarity grade are by definition, rare. Diamonds that have these characteristics and have a super-ideal cut, would be that much rarer. Probably not that much of a market, among the online crowd.

Trying to pursue a no compromise policy in selecting larger diamonds becomes very expensive, very quickly.

I would suggest calling both of those vendors. I would guess that they could help you out, given enough time.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am sure they can source you a stone in D-F color if you select one vendor to help you. I know someone who had WhiteFlash find her a very large diamond a year or two ago and they found her a gorgeous stone, and there have been others. I would really advise you to consider F, because you are going to find prices very high for ideal cut 2.4+ ct stones in D-E VS.

 

[Gypsy]

And I would advise you to consider SI1's that are eyeclean, as they will save you money and to the naked eye you won't be able to see a difference.

I think shooting for G Si1 is going to be your best bet. But if not G, then definitely F and no higher unless there is a deal to be had.

 

[proto]

If you want a particular spec, Brian Gavin will cut one for you, but you need to wire a 20% non-refundable deposit.

 

[Lorelei]

I am sure they can source you a stone in D-F color if you select one vendor to help you. I know someone who had WhiteFlash find her a very large diamond a year or two ago and they found her a gorgeous stone, and there have been others. I would really advise you to consider F, because you are going to find prices very high for ideal cut 2.4+ ct stones in D-E VS.

Ditto The Seeker, let BG or WF see if they can source you a stone meeting your requirements, through their contacts they might be able to come up with exactly what you are looking for. They would then call the stone in to do the analysis for you and see if it's suitable, that might be the best way forward. Colour grade is going to have a large impact on price so if you could view some F or G colour in person of similar size that are well cut and reliably graded ( try Tiffany or Hearts on Fire) to get a better idea, that might be helpful in seeing where your preferences actually lie.

You could also consider Proto's suggestion of having a stone cut if you wanted to go that way, chat to the vendors to see what they suggest. What a nice project!

 

[proto]

To answer the original query on why diamonds in these sizes are not usually in DEF:

Both Brian Gavin and Whiteflash have recently received a new selection of diamonds. They are being processed now, so they will need to be photographed and internally reviewed before they are listed. I expect within 2 to 3 weeks. This may show some stones in DEF that you are looking for.

The other reason why H/I colour stones are more common in these sizes is purely for pricing. Vendors want stones which dont stay in their inventory for very long because of their cost of funding. They would rather hold stones for as short a period of time as possible so that they can get sale proceeds and purchase new stones and reinvest their capital and profit. If they invest a large chunk of their capital into D colour stones which dont sell very quickly, their profits quickly fall because they are unable to make a turn on their investment. It gets even worse if they are using credit to purchase their stock or working capital requirements.

The majority of purchasers will not be interested in DEF stones at 2+ carats simply because the price differential at this size becomes pretty big. Some posters above have provided indicative differences.

Hope this answered your original query of why these colours are not common.

 

[Lorelei]

Both Brian Gavin and Whiteflash have recently received a new selection of diamonds. They are being processed now, so they will need to be photographed and internally reviewed before they are listed. I expect within 2 to 3 weeks. This may show some stones in DEF that you are looking for.

Are you still looking Proto?

 

[proto]

Not actively looking, as the window for me to return the diamond and reclaim my VAT is coming up fast (next week), but if something came up which happened to be everything I was looking for, I may consider it. Is a lot of hassle to return internationally etc.

 

[BoDuke]

Thanks All. As some of you have mentioned, ideally we are targeting F in color and eye clean. Eye clean may be a VS2 or it may be a SI1/SI2. Price is always a factor. The perfect stone for us would be an ideal cut 2.5, F, eye clean SI1/SI2. We are very fortunate to be able to look at diamonds of this carat/cut/color. Very exciting! And we're learning more about diamonds than we ever thought!