question for the experts

[TLS]

ok so i have an appointment with Marty Haske next week for an appraisal. From everything I heard he sounds like he is pretty amazing. I was a little shocked by the price though for an hour appraisal.... question for those in the know...I spoke to a local place today that can appraise and give me a sarin report for about 100 bucks - which would be a savings and also provided the coveted sarin numbers that i have been wanting

The thing is that I have heard great things about Marty and would love his opinion, however, I will not be able to get a sarin and he will be appraising it in the mounting.

2nd thing about the cheaper appraiser ... owns his own jewelery business, from what i heard that could be not a good thing.... and haven''t heard anything about him before. He is a gemologist with a degree from GIA i believe.

Which would you go with? also i still have a week to return if i am not happy with the results, but the sarin requires removing it from the setting. would the store know or care if they found out i had done that?

 

[WinkHPD]

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On 9/11/2004 4:41:45 PM TLS wrote:

but the sarin requires removing it from the setting. would the store know or care if they found out i had done that?----------------

You remove it, you own it. Period. No returns ands ifs or buts. To remove it and not tell them would be considered fraudulant if it was ever discovered.

Just my opinion of course, but it is a BAD idea. If you damage the ring and try to return it you could end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit. If you wanted data that was not included with the purchase, you need to have asked for it prior to having the stone mounted.

Wink

 

[Patty]

If the second appraiser has his own jewelry store, he is not an INDEPENDENT appraiser. He may be honest, but he's probably not totally unbiased since he sells jewelry.

Also, if you are getting an appraisal to see whether or not to keep the ring, I would NOT have it removed from the setting in order to get a sarin done on it. The store may not take it back if you have the stone removed and reset.

 

[TLS]

thank you for your advice... i was concerned about removing it as well and certainly wouldn't want to do anything to Jeapordize a return (and certainly wouldn't conceive of doing anything even remotely fraudulent). The reason i wanted to know is because the other jeweler told me it wouldn't be a big deal to remove from the setting to run the sarin. the ring looks beautiful so i don't think i will be returning it I just want an appraisal for "peace of mind"


thank you

 

[denverappraiser]

TLS,

Good questions.

Whether it’s good or bad that the 2nd appraiser owns a jewelry store depends on what you are asking. A GG from GIA is training in grading stones and this is evidence that he is qualified for that service, assuming he has the appropriate tools at hand. The problem with appraisers that sell is that it’s difficult to separate when they are selling you their own goods and when they’re giving a true opinion on the one you already have. Their opinion may very well be 100% correct. If what you want is to have the stone pulled and reset and have a sarin report done (Sarin requires that the stone be unmounted), this is a perfectly reasonable service to have performed there. It actually requires a bench and a skilled jeweler to do this. If you want to know if the stone matches the certificate, they should have no difficulty with this either. They are also probably entirely capable of writing a description and a report that will be acceptable to your insurance company. The only place that it gets sticky is when you ask if you paid a better price than you might have needed to pay elsewhere or if you could have received a ‘better’ stone by shopping somewhere else, like at their place. On these questions they have a pretty serious conflict of interest, especially if it’s true. This is what drives the independent appraisal business and why customers and the best dealers love us.

Your desire to hear Marty’s opinion is exactly what he’s charging for. He’s one of the smartest guys I've never met and I would value his opinion too, but whether it’s worth to you what he is charging is a decision that you have to make based on your own needs. $100 for a pull/sarin/reset/appraise is pretty reasonable.

Edited to add: I absolutely agree with Wink that you should not pull the stone without discussing it with the seller. They may be willing to give you permission if you ask but I wouldn't bet on it.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[TLS]

Neil thank you so much for all of your great advice (as well as everyone else). You all have been extremely helpful.

I am going to stick with Marty - I feel most comfortable with him based on everything I have heard, so I think for me it will be worth paying the extra $$$.

The ring is beautiful and I did a good amount of research so I believe the price we paid was fair. The only reason I would return it would be if marty thought the color or clarity didn't match the GIA, or if he felt the cut wasn't as good as we believe... or if he felt we somehow drastically overpaid, which I hope isn't the case and I don't believe it will be based on my research.

I am concerned about one feather under a prong... i didn't take it to be a big deal because it's hidden and not viewable with the naked eye....and there are no visible inclusions under the table at all.... the other jeweler was acting a little funny about it but I felt they wanted me to buy from them, so I don't really trust that. Meanwhile she was showing me lower clarity graded diamonds with big inclusions under the table and seemed to have no problem with that!!!

Thanks again for everything - you guys are the best!

 

[ChooChoo]

We just saw Marty today. He is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful. His appraisals generally take 45 minutes and cost around $125 dollars.

 

[TLS]

choo choo - are you sure we are talking about the same Marty. I am referring to Marty Haske in brookline Massachusetts? I was quoted a higher amount that is why I think we might be talking about different people.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

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On 9/11/2004 5:02:01 PM denverappraiser wrote:

TLS,

... The only place that it gets sticky is when you ask if you paid a better price than you might have needed to pay elsewhere or if you could have received a ‘better’ stone by shopping somewhere else, like at their place. On these questions they have a pretty serious conflict of interest, especially if it’s true. This is what drives the independent appraisal business and why customers and the best dealers love us.

...

Hi Neil,

I just wonder how on earth any appraiser can answer such a question.

Suppose that someone has shopped with a B&M-store, with typical B&M-pricing (which they should work with to stay in business). Would you then tell this consumer that he could get a better deal on the Internet?

Suppose that someone comes in for an appraisal of a 'Hearts On Fire' (just as an example). Would you then tell that he can get better cut-quality for a lower price?

And if so, would you direct such a customer to a cheaper channel of distribution?

I fear that such a question of a consumer would lead each appraiser on a very slippery slope. I am curious to know how you answer such a direct question of a consumer.

Sorry for phrasing this in such a direct way. It is not my intention to attack anyone. I am just curious how the ethics of your profession handle such a difficult and sensitive question.

Live long,

 

[denverappraiser]

Paul,

It’s slippery indeed.

The problem is defining what market is being discussed. Internet and out-of-town dealers are not selling the same thing because they lack the personal presence in the market. The ability to walk into a store and deal, in person, with someone is a feature that many customers find to be quite valuable. As you point out, there are some extra costs incurred by dealers that choose to offer this. In many cases customers actually prefer the online experience but it’s simply not a fair comparison to say that they are the same, even if the stones being sold are gemologically similar.

If the client is asking for an appraisal that estimates replacement cost new, at local retail, I will do my best to provide them information that is applicable to that market. If they want to know what prices to expect in the online marketplace, I’ll give them that. If they want to know what is a reasonable price to expect from their own resale, I will discuss with them the various markets where they might choose to sell and then appraise accordingly to describe the market that is appropriate to the needs at hand.

I quite specifically don’t recommend particular vendors or buyers, either locally or online, because it would be an inherent conflict of interest to do so. I also don’t answer the above described question because it not really a fair question and any answer provided would be meaningless. Instead, I explain to the customers why I won’t answer.

This issue causes great confusion among consumers, dealers and even appraisers who are expecting that a particular number can be attached to an item and described as it’s worth. This simply is not the case. It’s very common for a client to buy a stone online and then ask for an appraisal that describes the replacement cost new at local retail. They then use the difference between these two numbers as evidence to support that they found a tremendous bargain. This may be true but there are other issues at play that can cause this discrepancy.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Neil,

thank you for your very elaborate answer.

As you say, putting a value on a stone is a very complicated matter, and the concerned market is an essential part of the equation. It is indeed very difficult to explain this to consumers.

Good luck,