Question for parents

[kenny]

I was the youngest of 4, never baby-sat and have no kids so I am kid-clueless, had crummy parents, and always wondering about the right way to raise kids.

Our new next door neighbor just came over with her 3-yr old daughter (let's call her Jane) to have her apologize for something.
I was surprised and having zero parenting experience, I was wondering if this was usual.

They bought the house next door and moved in 2 weeks ago; they seem really nice.
Parents are late-20-something, nice, intelligent, very cool people.
I get a really good vibe from them.

The two daughters are about 2 and 3.
I did hear some usual-sounding crying earlier, but I was mostly in my garage with earplugs operating power tools so wasn't really conscious of any out of control crying.
Mom said Jane had a 2-hour tantrum so she brought her over so Jane could apologize for making so much noise.
Mom told Jane to say, "I'm sorry." which she did.
The girl was calm but withdrawn.

I sat on my driveway so I was at Jane's eye-level and said, (going along with mom's process) "Well, thank you for apologizing, do you feel better now?"
Then I quickly changed the subject to not make this any bigger of a deal than the mom already had.
Then we chit chatted a little, during which Jane asked, twice, if they could go home now - obviously uncomfortable.
Mom said they still have to go to the other neighbor's house to apologize.

Thinking it would be good to put Jane more at ease I told her she had pretty blue eyes that matched her shirt and the band aid on her chin.
Her mom said she banged her chin during her tantrum.

I sensed this this whole visit was extremely awkward (or worse) for the girl so I changed the subject and asked her if she wanted to come in and see our baby shrimps which they did.

I asked my SO, and he said the crying sounded like normal little-kid crying, nothing that unusual, and he felt the mom bring Jane over to apologize was fine.
You have to teach kids they can't just go out of control.

So, do you think it was wrong for the parent to do this to the kid?
I can see it both ways.

 

[lilyfoot]

Honestly, I think it''s kind of weird, and I would''ve felt extremely awkward.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I thought it was alright, and i have done similar things with my daughter although she is alot older. It may have been a little over the top for a 3 year old but i definately can see where the mum was coming from. Actions have consequences and when you throw a tantrum for two hours appoligising to the neighbours is what happens. Next time she throws a tantrum i bet the mum says to her ''''do you want to have to go and appologise to kenny for all the noise you are making??" and she will (hopefully) stop.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

If I were the kid I would feel awkward too!

When I was in college I lost a job as as clerk at at local grocery store and my mom made me go in and ask the manager why. I was mortified!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I think it is healthy to have appropriate boundaries and consequences for misbehaving. Your houses must be close together for you to be bothered (or the mother to think you were bothered by her tantrum). I agree with her decision to ignore Jane. Tantrums do not warrant ANY attention b/c Jane would learn that all she has to do is throw a tantrum to get mom''s attention (some kids will take any attention not just positive). I think Jane''s mother was trying to teach her daughter responsibility. She misbehaved, disturbed the neighbors, so now she has to say she is sorry. Some of it probably had to do with the mother''s embarrassment as well.

 

[yssie]

I'd love it if one of our neighbours would do as Jane's mum did, and A) try to teach the kid some semblance of self control, and B) apologize to the community for the daily tantrums the little hellion seems to enjoy indulging in

fortunately the walls are thick and block it all out with the door and windows shut!


Awkward, but I think the kid will get the point, and it sounds like a polite gesture on mum's part.

 

[Kaleigh]

Sounds kind of odd to me... Was it an all out crying fest?? Kids cry... But when my kids cried, I never marched them to my neighbor to apologize.

 

[lyra]

She sounds a little Mommy Dearest to me. She''s *imposing* on you physically for something you may or may not have even heard. That would bug me.

Plus it does nothing for the kid.

 

[Indylady]

Hahah I used to have to do things like that when I was little..

Yeah, it was totally awkward and embarrassing and sucked, but that was basically the point. It didn''t scar me. It was just the way my parents handled discipline.

 

[TravelingGal]

For normal kid crying, I might say it''s OTT. For an all out tantrum that is annoying as a car alarm going on for ages, I can see why she did it.

I dunno...part of me thinks I might just apologize myself to the neighbor if it wasn''t THAT bad, and another part of me sees the value in what she did if it was a two hour bad freak out. My only issue is that she is putting you in kind of a weird place.

I''d have to think about it a bit more. We do have a neighbor (across the street) whose kid screams SO loud, one day I honestly thought it was my own kid in the room next door.

 

[Indylady]

I also think that it might be part of a "bigger issue", ya know? Like, she''s prone to throwing loud tantrums, and her mom is trying to teach her not to handle her emotions that way. A lot of those "lessons" can be more like life lessons rather particularly about each and every incident.

My family has friends with a 3 year old who throws ridiculous tantrums. He''s really mature and intelligent for a three year old, and knows exactly how to work it:
Freak out, scream and throw yourself on the ground.
Repeat for 90 seconds while pulling mom''s skirt intermittently.
Get toys and attention, dash away smiling.

He turns it on and off like nobody''s business, and his parents just cannot figure out how to handle it without giving in so he''ll stop embarrassing them ASAP.

 

[Shoopy]

We don''t know what went on in the home. Jane may have misbehave very badly and as part of the process to teach Jane why her behavior was unacceptable, she made her apologize to everyone. From the outside in, it seems like a good lesson and a good approach.

As for her being uncomfortable, that''s just how some kids are. I used to bury my face behind my dad''s leg when we were at my aunt''s house because I was painfully shy and uncomfortable being anywhere but home. The little girl may not be comfortable around strangers.

Plus, discipline is not really about the child''s comfort now, is it?

because if it is, I wish someone would have told my mom years ago. I could have been getting lectured while sitting on the lazy boy with a juicy juice watching Gem

 

[kenny]

Date: 6/16/2010 11:22:12 PM
Author: fiery
We don't know what went on in the home. Jane may have misbehave very badly and as part of the process to teach Jane why her behavior was unacceptable, she made her apologize to everyone. From the outside in, it seems like a good lesson and a good approach.

As for her being uncomfortable, that's just how some kids are. I used to bury my face behind my dad's leg when we were at my aunt's house because I was painfully shy and uncomfortable being anywhere but home. The little girl may not be comfortable around strangers.

Plus, discipline is not really about the child's comfort now, is it?

because if it is, I wish someone would have told my mom years ago. I could have been getting lectured while sitting on the lazy boy with a juicy juice watching Gem

So, do you think I went too easy on Jane?
Should I have picked up on mom's signals and laid into the girl with a bit of scolding?
Is going along with various parenting of styles what we are expected to do?
I really wasn't sure what to do so I was kind of uncomfortable.

 

[Shoopy]

Oh not at all Kenny. Actually I think what you did was very considerate both to the mother (by helping her follow through) and to Jane (by showing her that apologizing doesn't mean others will stay angry with you).

I would have felt awkward in your position also but I think, not knowing any more details, this form of discipline is acceptable.

ETA also wanted to mention that my opinion is all in theory since I do not have a 3 year old so I have no clue what they can process. Are they old enough to understand apologies? I know on super nanny she makes 2 yr olds apologize

 

[Cehrabehra]

Well, I think maybe you thought that this event was MORE about apologizing to you and LESS about teaching her daughter to own the consequences of poor behavior. I think it was less about get to know your new neighbor and more about see how upset you make your neighbor when you behave like that.

I think you acted perfectly because it really isn''t her place to insert you into her parenting, but maybe what she was looking for was for you to get to eye level and say to her that hearing her tantrum upset you and you hope she feels better now and never has to have another one again.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[zoebartlett]

I'm not a parent but I'll answer anyway. If someone does something wrong, in general, it's nice to apologize. As others have said, actions have consequences. But, in this case, it does seem over the top to ask Jane to apologize for her behavior. She's three. Tantrums happen. I think the mom was embarrassed.

This reminded me that in our old condo, there was a couple who lived next door, and they just had a baby. We rarely heard the baby cry but yeah, sometimes we would. He was a newborn. We shared a wall with our neighbor. One day, the husband came over to apologize if they were disturbing us. I thought it was a nice neighborly gesture, but I didn't think he needed to apologize for his baby crying at all.

 

[lknvrb4]

Kenny, I think you handled it perfectly. I would have felt uncomfortable if a neighbor brought over their child to apologize.
Funny thing, my 5 year old daughter was throwing a huge tantrum and screaming at the top of her lungs yesterday morning and my neighbors were outside working in their yard. I had to put her in the spare room and shut the door because I was afraid they could hear her and call the cops on me.

 

[RaiKai]

Kenny, no you definitely should not have "scolded" her or "parented" her. I think you handled it fine - getting down to eye level and accepting the apology. Getting down to eye-level is an awesome approach for small children. My DH does this all the time with kids.

I don't think it is that unusual, it all depends on the context. For a regular tantrum, it seems unusual, but if the kid was really throwing a disturbance that was impacting the enjoyment of others, it makes sense to me. I think it is about small children learning self-awareness and responsibility for their actions - learning that they do affect others with their own actions. Of course she is seeming uncomfortable - you are a stranger, and she probably feels VERY self-aware! I think that is probably part of the point. She does not want to repeat that. Being self aware or uncomfortable is not at all a bad thing - shame is not a bad thing. It often means we are being open to someone else and being honest about ourselves.

It was really about the parent in the end too. She probably wanted to demonstrate she herself is aware her child's tantrum affected others.

Every parent, and every child, is different and may have their own ways of approaching these sorts of things.

There was a family in the supermarket yesterday where the parents definitely should have done something like this. Their kids were running around screaming, and using the payphones to call 911 (since it is free), and knocking things off the shelves. They would yell at the top of the lungs they were "lost" and then run away from their parents to keep doing so. One of the kids ran full bore into me (and I DID say something to the child). The parents did not do anything. It was bizarre, but I do think something was a bit off with the parents too and the entire family. Something was very strange about the mother. But that is another story!

 

[luv2sparkle]

I think it was great that the parent brought the kid over to apologize. It teaches the girl that her behavior does affect others. She is a little young for that, I don''t know that I would have even thought of it, but good for
her. I think you responded perfectly Kenny.

We have brought our kids to neighbors to apologize on several occasions for stuff that they had done that affected the neighbors. It is only right. Once a neighbor came over saying that one of our boys was pitching
dog poop over the fence into their yard. The guy insisted that he knew what his dogs poop looked like! I would have sworn that my boys wouldn''t do that. We had a poop disposal thing in the ground, All you had to do
was lift the lid and drop it in. We questioned them and it wasn''t until the next day that one of them fessed up. This neighbor had been a real jerk to the kids and kind of used his rotwieller as a weapon with all the
kids in the neigborhood. No excuse though, so DH marched said kid next door to have him apologize and offer to do extra chores for the neighbor, which he declined. The image in my mind of my little 8 year old
pitchin poop over a 8 foot fence still give me a giggle. Truth is I was never fond of that neighbor!

 

[tyty333]

Date: 6/16/2010 11:25:46 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 6/16/2010 11:22:12 PM
Author: fiery
We don''t know what went on in the home. Jane may have misbehave very badly and as part of the process to teach Jane why her behavior was unacceptable, she made her apologize to everyone. From the outside in, it seems like a good lesson and a good approach.

As for her being uncomfortable, that''s just how some kids are. I used to bury my face behind my dad''s leg when we were at my aunt''s house because I was painfully shy and uncomfortable being anywhere but home. The little girl may not be comfortable around strangers.

Plus, discipline is not really about the child''s comfort now, is it?

because if it is, I wish someone would have told my mom years ago. I could have been getting lectured while sitting on the lazy boy with a juicy juice watching Gem

So, do you think I went too easy on Jane?
Should I have picked up on mom''s signals and laid into the girl with a bit of scolding?
Is going along with various parenting of styles what we are expected to do?
I really wasn''t sure what to do so I was kind of uncomfortable.

Kenny,
I think you handled it extremely well. She apologized and you accepted. It seems a little over the top for the Mom to be doing
what she did but I certainly dont have a problem with it. If the girl is throwing a lot of tantrums, Mom may be trying to teach
her how many people it may affect. If the girl learns that everytime she throws a tantrum she will have to go apologize to
everyone she may have bothered it may help her not to do it as often (with a little bit of Mom''s reminding).
tyty

(I wish you were my neighbor Kenny

)

 

[Maisie]

Maybe the mother was worried you might have been concerned about the child crying for so long and felt that she should offer some kind of explanation. Also, as they are new to the neighbourhood she probably wanted to be sure you weren''t irritated by the noise. I would never make my child apologise for having a tantrum, but I would probably offer my apologies for the noise the next time I bumped into the neighbours.

 

[ImpatientOne]

I applaud the mother for teachin her children, at an early age, to take other people into consideration and teaching them that their behavior (both negative and positive) has an effect on those around them.

JMHO, but there are far too many parents out there who allow their children to run wild and disrupt other people's lives with their unruly behavior!

 

[kenny]

Thanks all.
You've brought up lots of good points I had not considered.

I did tell her, and I do believe this, that parents have the hardest job in the world.

 

[Arkteia]

I do not think she was right.

a) if a kid throws tantrums all the time, maybe there is time to look at the situation and to bring her to a child psychologist to figure out why she is throwing tantrums and if the parents are handling the situation poorly (after all, we do not know how the tantrum started and what it was over. It takes two to quarrel).

b) second, I wonder if mom''s gesture had less to do with the girl and more with showing the neighbors what a good, considerate person SHE was - a nice way to earn scores with new neighbors!

c) also, kids do throw tantrums - remember "terrible 2-s" and "terrible 3-s"?

The daughter of our neighbor across the street used to have very bad night terrors - they did not apologize and I did not feel bad about it because I had two kids myself and knew that kids had problems.

I think you did the right thing, Kenny.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Hmmmmmm tough question. I think it''s hard to judge parenting when you only get a glimpse in to their life. I think it would depend on how mom set up the situation. Did she calmly and clearly state to her daughter why she wanted to go apologize to the neighbors? Or did she humiliate her and put her down? Did she try other alternatives first? Or was embarrassment the first method she tried?

Although I would think parents should be more tolerant towards temper tantrums in young children (2, 3, 4 years old), I think in the grand scheme of bad parenting (e.g. abusive parents) this is a pretty minor ordeal. I have seen A LOT worse....

 

[beaujolais]

Agree with Crasu & Ilovethiswebsite. And, I see her wanting to embarrass & humiliate. I find it very sad.

Children are supposed to throw tizzys, sometimes.

Thanks for telling her she had pretty eyes & change the mood. You sound like a really great guy, btw.

Concerned about why a tizzy should last two hours & that she hurt herself. Is the mom feeding into it?

 

[ericad]

I commend the mom for her approach, and I think you handled it perfectly. Too many kids being raised with no sense of accountability for their actions.

When my daughter was 3 (she's 5 now) she threw a huge temper tantrum in the Costco parking lot, after my MIL had just bought her a bunch of dresses, books, toys, etc. I gave her 3 warnings that if she continued, I would walk into the store and return every item (part of her tantrum included throwing some of these items across the car, parking lot, etc. indicating she didn't appreciate them, saying to go ahead and return them because she didn't care and didn't want them anyway, etc.)

I called her bluff and left her in the car with my MIL (mouth gaping open at my cruel parenting technique) and marched back into the store with her stuff, and returned it on the spot. I explained to the clerk exactly why I was returning it.

When I got back to the car, DD apologized to me and asked if we could go get her stuff back. I explained to her that we have inconvenienced the store clerks, but she was very remorseful and I agreed that we could go back if she apologized to them for wasting their time. So we went back to the clerk, who played along very well, and Sophie had to explain why we returned the stuff and were there to get it back ("I didn't listen to mommy and wouldn't get in my car seat and was throwing my books and toys so mommy said she would return them back to the store and I still didn't listen, but now I'm very sorry and I won't do that again.")

I allowed her to explain in her own words and she didn't feel embarrassed or shy - she was very matter of fact about the whole thing.

We re-purchased the returned items and she smothered me with hugs and kisses and know what? She's NEVER thrown another public tantrum again. She still remembers that day, but it's more like, "oh boy, did that teach me a lesson!" and she wasn't traumatized or anything. It taught her to be a good listener, considerate of other people's time, and most importantly that when mommy lays down a consequence, she means it

 

[Steel]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:17:21 PM
Author: ericad
I commend the mom for her approach, and I think you handled it perfectly. Too many kids being raised with no sense of accountability for their actions.

When my daughter was 3 (she''s 5 now) she threw a huge temper tantrum in the Costco parking lot, after my MIL had just bought her a bunch of dresses, books, toys, etc. I gave her 3 warnings that if she continued, I would walk into the store and return every item (part of her tantrum included throwing some of these items across the car, parking lot, etc. indicating she didn''t appreciate them, saying to go ahead and return them because she didn''t care and didn''t want them anyway, etc.)

I called her bluff and left her in the car with my MIL (mouth gaping open at my cruel parenting technique) and marched back into the store with her stuff, and returned it on the spot. I explained to the clerk exactly why I was returning it.

When I got back to the car, DD apologized to me and asked if we could go get her stuff back. I explained to her that we have inconvenienced the store clerks, but she was very remorseful and I agreed that we could go back if she apologized to them for wasting their time. So we went back to the clerk, who played along very well, and Sophie had to explain why we returned the stuff and were there to get it back (''I didn''t listen to mommy and wouldn''t get in my car seat and was throwing my books and toys so mommy said she would return them back to the store and I still didn''t listen, but now I''m very sorry and I won''t do that again.'')

I allowed her to explain in her own words and she didn''t feel embarrassed or shy - she was very matter of fact about the whole thing.

We re-purchased the returned items and she smothered me with hugs and kisses and know what? She''s NEVER thrown another public tantrum again. She still remembers that day, but it''s more like, ''oh boy, did that teach me a lesson!'' and she wasn''t traumatized or anything. It taught her to be a good listener, considerate of other people''s time, and most importantly that when mommy lays down a consequence, she means it

This is exactly how I want to parent. Great job.

 

[that_someone_special]

When I worked in retail plenty of moms (not dads) would have their kids apologize for scream, breaking things, throwing things on the floor or putting things in their mouth. I appreciated it, but then again they are just kids.

 

[ericad]

Thanks

Believe me, I''ve had many less than stellar parenting moments too. That would be a great thread topic - share your bad parenting moments!

Ask me about the time my daughter yelled at me, "You are always screaming at me, mommy, the police are going to take me away from you!" all because I insisted that the child brush her teeth. That one ended with mommy having the temper tantrum!