Question for owners of dogs with undercoats

[aviastar]

Hi everyone!

Today is the first really hot day we've had this season and I spent hours giving my dog a hair cut and good brushing so she stays cooler; she's a 50 lb Border collie/Chow (I think) mix, all black, and we got rid of about 3 shopping bags of hair today!

She gets brushed on a regular basis, but even with wide toothed undercoat brush I just can't seem to get through everything to thin the undercoat effectively. I purchased a clipper set and...her undercoat broke it. On the first try. Her coat is simply neverending.

She was a rescue and the organization wasn't sure what mix she was as a young pup, so there was no way to predict the adult coat characteristics, but I actually do love that she is soft and fluffy and have no problems devoting the necessary time to brushing, clipping, and maintainance- but I would love some tips, tricks, and suggestions on how you all make it work best.

So...how do you manage your dog's undercoat at home?

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

We have a rescued border collie/lab mix and she is wonderful! We do have the shedding issue and we've been very happy with both the Zoom Groom rubber brush and the Furminator (we have the yellow medium sized one). The Zoom Groom is shaped like a curry comb for horses but is rubber and is GREAT for pulling out loose fur during times of high shedding (spring/fall). Bonus, it works really well for getting the dog fur off our microfiber couch & loveseat! (Not sure what we were thinking with THAT one!). I think the Zoom Groom was around $10 at Petsmart.

The Furminator has very thin metal teeth that are sharp at the base so as you drag the brush through the fur, it cuts the fur. Some dogs don't like it (I think it might pull a bit) but we've found that it helps a LOT in summer to thin out her coat so she is more comfortable in the warm weather. Her back is black so she gets very hot outside and this helps to thin out the fur on her back and also on her ruff/fuzziness around her neck. That said, the Furminator was around $40 and while I would gladly pay it again, some dogs are sensitive to it and don't like it. It works more like thinning shears for human hair if that makes sense.

Hope that helps! Bless you for rescuing! Rescues are just the best!

 

[davi_el_mejor]

As weird as it sounds, keep the coat long. Don't clip it. The coat will actually keep them cooler than if you do.

As for grooming, find a wide toothed plastic rake. They should be available at any pet store near you. Something like this works great if the coat isn't too thick http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dog+rake&hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1243&bih=814&wrapid=tlif130644577513710&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13828092887800627764&sa=X&ei=7MfeTc7CHob2gAft6MHnCg&ved=0CGgQ8wIwBTgK#

I also love the furminator, but it may not be the best comb for your dog

 

[Burberrygirl]

I have a rescue that we think is chow, shepard, and a mix of some other breeds. He is such a sweet and intelligent dog but he does shed a lot. We have a Furminator brush too. It works very good for us and he likes it.

 

[aviastar]

Thanks for replies! Sounds like the Furmiontor is a popular choice, I'll definitely check it out.

Davi- does it matter how long you leave it to keep them cool? I don't buzz down to her skin, I was told that would only make the undercoat thicker and also then you have to worry about sunburn, but I do trim it all up for summer since she spends a lot of time running through the woods, swimming in ponds and creeks, chasing deer, and generally being messy and it helps keep down the mats, thorns, mud. She also gets a daily run through the hose, so my thinking was getting rid of the, literally inches, of hair on top of her skin would help the water get in there and cool her off without keeping her coat wet for the next 8 hours. Thanks for the link...I'll check those out too!

Burberry and Idliketobuy- rescue is the way to go! My girl is so sweet and smart; chows have a bad rep, but my girl is loving, cuddly, and SMART (that's the border collie!).

Here she is pre- haircut:

 

[aviastar]

and post hair cut

 

[JewelFreak]

Davi is absolutely RIGHT! Cheers for him.

Shaving or shortening a dog's coat for summer is not healthy for the dog.

1. Dogs do not sweat through their skin. Sweating is nature's way of allowing HUMAN bodies to cool by evaporation; dogs sweat (and cool) ONLY through their tongues & the pads of their feet. Shaving them only exposes their bodies to more heat.

2. They sunburn easily. Their skin is not constructed to handle direct exposure to sun.

3. The coat keeps their systems cool by blocking sun & heat from direct contact w/the body, just as it keeps them warm in winter. Nature takes care of exposure to higher temps by causing them to shed.

Davi's recommendation of an undercoat rake is excellent. They work best for double-coated dogs. If your dog just has long fur, rather than a guard coat & an undercoat, some of the other ideas probably work fine, I haven't tried them.

My Siberians (& all double-coated breeds) need major raking in spring & summer. It's a HUGE chore. I do a part of the critter at a time, as much as the dog or I can stand in one session, then continue a few days later. How's this for an example? This is from only half of one of my dogs, done about a month ago. If they weren't such glorious creatures to live with, I'd never have gone through this for the past 20 years!

ETA: Sorry the pic is so big, didn't realize it wouldn't be reduced in size.

 

[charbie]

Holy Moly dog fur, JF!

We also use a Furminator. I have a lab and a short haired beagle mix, and both respond pretty well to it. We bought ours from ebay and got a pretty good discount. You need to be careful bc it can scratch them, but it pulls the hair our better than anything we have ever used.

 

[AGBF]

I had planned to keep our Newfoundland's coat long this summer for the reasons given by some other posters above: I believed the coat would protect him from the sun and keep him cooler. He went too long since he was groomed by the breeder, however, and I told the groomer to do whatever was in his best interests. The result was that we brought home a poodle. A very long, slender poodle. He is adorable!!! No one had any idea he was so slender! He just looks like the baby that he really is without all that fur!!! He is such a young puppy, but all that Newfie hair ages him and makes him look so B-I-G!!! I have rediscovered the tiny puppy in Griffin!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

You have a gorgeous girl!!

I was thinking a little more and with her long AND thick fur you might also look into a slicker brush. We had a rough collie when I was growing up and the fur on her flanks and tail would tend to mat very easily and a slicker was GREAT for keeping the fur from matting next to her skin. She was also a hunting dog and picked up all sorts of burrs and twigs. Our border collie x lab's fur is much shorter than your girl's so I'm not sure the Zoom Groom would be effective since the rubber tips are only about an inch long.

 

[iheartscience]

I had planned to keep our Newfoundland's coat long this summer for the reasons given by some other posters above: I believed the coat would protect him from the sun and keep him cooler. He went too long since he was groomed by the breeder, however, and I told the groomer to do whatever was in his best interests. The result was that we brought home a poodle. A very long, slender poodle. He is adorable!!! No one had any idea he was so slender! He just looks like the baby that he really is without all that fur!!! He is such a young puppy, but all that Newfie hair ages him and makes him look so B-I-G!!! I have rediscovered the tiny puppy in Griffin!!!

Deb/AGBF

Deb-pictures please?!!!

aviastar-I only have cats, but your pup is adorable, with or without long fur!

 

[FrekeChild]

Get a furminator from Amazon!

 

[aviastar]

Thank you to everyone for chiming in!

JF- Wow. Just Wow.

After reading Davi and your responses, I was worried I had done more harm than good in my quest for cool this summer. I did a little more research and came across this article from the American Animal Hospital Association [urlhttp://www.healthypet.com/PetCare/PetCareArticle.aspx?art_key=03998e04-cb17-4aa6-8de6-036396794dad][/url] which states that leaving a minimum of 1 inch of hair is suffcient to achieve the natural cooling process you outlined above, and can actually be beneficial for the breeds living out of their climate zones (we do top 90 and even 100 here on a fairly regualr basis, so even though she is an indoor dog it gets HOT). So I am safe this time, but will absolutely be purchasing a rake so I can have my own mountain of hair like yours, cause that is just impressive

Thing2- thank you! And ABGF- second the request for pics of Griffin's new 'do!

Freke- it looks like you can save a lot on Amazon, thanks!

Idliketobuy- the Zoom Groom sounds like it would be great for our shepard though, thanks!

Charbie- thanks for the recommendation!

 

[elrohwen]

Furminator is great! I use one on my rabbits (they might be small, but those suckers shed like a 70lb dog). It's really great at grabbing the undercoat.

The hairbuster comb is also really good, though it tends to pull at the fur a bit and they don't like that.

I'm going to have to run out and get a zoom groom now!

 

[iLander]

If your dog doesn't like the furminator, try thinning shears.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=thinning+shears&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=ivns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1189&bih=890&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7209165613115841456&sa=X&ei=4anfTdzSCoXdgQeFmNDtCg&ved=0CHUQ8wIwAQ#ps-sellers

They cut every other hair. My DH uses them on his thick, wavy hair and then he buzzes most of it off. And then he STILL has a ton of hair, but that's not what we're talking about, so anyway . . . We have another pair we use on the dog. It does not hurt the dog at all, she doesn't even feel it. You just snip, snip like regular scissors, then brush it out as you go. The dog just miraculously looks like it has less hair, but the top of the coat is usually unchanged. It's worth it to pay a little more ($20 versus $12) because if they're not quality they just pull and don't cut.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I have a full chow and he has an appointment tomorrow to get groomed and raked. Our groomer is fabulous with him and does a really nice job. I find it's much easier to keep up with the brushing if he's had at least one really thorough grooming session once a month or two.We use a combo of the furminator, a rake comb and lots and lots of patience. And yes, we rake out cat-sized balls of fur. Tumbleweeds I call them when they collect in the corners of our house.

I love my chow but oy vey the grooming and brushing is serious work.

 

[deegee]

Your girl is beautiful! What a sweet face! I have a rescue border collie mix (Lily), and she is the sweetest natured, smartest dog that has ever adopted me as owner!

I use the medium furminator too, bought from Amazon. I used it on Lily last night and came up with enough extra hair for another dog! I try to brush her at least once a week, especially before we give her a bath. It really helps.

 

[AGBF]

aviastar-

Your girl is simply gorgeous!!! Really, really beautiful! Does she let you cuddle her? I would want to cuddle her, but I have no idea what kind of temperament she has! (I understand she is smart, and since she is part Border Collie, she probably looks like Einstein next to my Newfie! He isn't really stupid, but both my Golden and my Lab were really a lot more interested in their surroundings, a lot more vigilant, than he is. If one could say that dogs have intellectual curiosity, I would say that the Lab and the Golden had more of that. They wanted to know how things worked...and where things were. They, therefore, were far more destructive of the house as they investigated objects and took them apart. My Newfie is content to lie around!!! But I digress!)

What is your dog's name? Did I miss it when you posted it somewhere? (I looked for it.) I wanted to be able to call her by her name.

I also wanted to say that she reminds me, in terms of both her fur and her facial features, of my dog, Griffin. So when she got trimmed, she looked a bit like Griffin when he got what I call his poodle haircut!

I took a bunch of pictures of him yesterday with the new haircut and a new collar from Blocky Dogs, but they never showed up from the memory stick. I will have to try again!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friendd

 

[AGBF]

I took a bunch of pictures of him yesterday with the new haircut and a new collar from Blocky Dogs, but they never showed up from the memory stick. I will have to try again!

By the way, for those of you who don't know it, Blocky Dogs is a website that makes custom collars for dogs whose necks are too big for regular collars that one buys in pet stores. I had no trouble with at all finding a good Sprenger (training) collar, but couldn't find an everyday collar that fit my Newfie well. I hadn't expected that problem and had bought one for Griffin that the pet store told me would fit before I brought him home. Since these, being custom made, take time to make up, he just got his new collar a few days ago.

Here is a link to the Blocky Dogs website:

http://www.blockydogs.com/

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

I have been teasing Griffin about having turned into a poodle, but he is impervious to insult. Insults roll off him like water off a duck's back, which is probably appropriate given what a water dog he is. Someone seriously asked my daughter, when she had him out for his daily walk, if he was a poodle! I have taken to saying (to Griffin, that is), "I got a poodle! But they promised me a Newfoundland! How did that happen? You're my poodle!" and so forth. But it only makes him want to cuddle more, so there's nothing to be gained from it.

More pictures will be posted in Griffin's thread. He's already starting to grow back. I think the top of the head may have been more poufy a week ago, although it was definitely always a massive, Newfoundland's head that he had under the pouf!!! He was groomed over a week ago!

Deb/AGBF

 

[aviastar]

Elrohwen- I love rabbits! I would love to have some, but both my dog and my boyfriend's dog have a tendency to chase things smaller than themselves- so right now I just have to be content with the family of rabbits that live in the yard- there are three that show up pretty regularly. I have named them Hazel, Fiver, and Blackberry.

Thanks, iLander- that sounds like a very reasonable alternative! I wish my hair were thicker, too, but seeing as I wear it anywhere from mid-back to waist length, the extra thickness would probably weigh me down more than I liked.

Hudson- yes! Tumbleweeds is a perfect description! I am obviously not using the right brush (although I now have several excellent suggestions) because I don't get the tumbleweeds with a brush- just tumble-strands. The large Texas sized ones seem to just show up in corners and under furniture all by themselves.

Deegree- thank you! She is one of those sweet pups that adopted me; I went to the pet store to get a rabbit and came home with a puppy from the rescue group on their front sidewalk. She just curled up in my lap and went to sleep and the rest is history as they say.

ABGF- Let me introduce you to Nala, princess extraordinaire, expert cuddler, master troublemaker, and overall love of my life. She is definitely a cuddlebug, love attention and kisses. My favorite is when she will hop up on the sofa or bed and just hook her chin over my ankles. As a puppy she was very 'chow' in appearance and has gotten much more 'border collie' as an adult, but depending on her state of haircut and what she's doing, she really does look like a little Newfie sometimes, and sometimes a little black bear, or sometimes a little black lion...

Talk about smart, though, this girl learned how to open a hook and eye latch and open a cabinet door to get to the trash can. She herds me and the german shepard relentlessly, trees neighboring cats that dare stary in the yard- she's a riot!

Love Griffin's new poodle-do! He seems so calm and content, what a joy!

 

[JewelFreak]

Thank you to everyone for chiming in!

JF- Wow. Just Wow.

After reading Davi and your responses, I was worried I had done more harm than good in my quest for cool this summer. I did a little more research and came across this article from the American Animal Hospital Association [urlhttp://www.healthypet.com/PetCare/PetCareArticle.aspx?art_key=03998e04-cb17-4aa6-8de6-036396794dad][/url] which states that leaving a minimum of 1 inch of hair is suffcient to achieve the natural cooling process you outlined above, and can actually be beneficial for the breeds living out of their climate zones (we do top 90 and even 100 here on a fairly regualr basis, so even though she is an indoor dog it gets HOT). So I am safe this time, but will absolutely be purchasing a rake so I can have my own mountain of hair like yours, cause that is just impressive

Aviastar -- you & I posted at the same time, so I hadn't seen your pics when I wrote. The length looks fine. It's when they get done really really short that it does more harm than good. Your baby has enough fur to protect from sun & heat. The main thing most dog owners don't realize (but you obviously do) is that cutting or shaving fur doesn't do a lot to cool them off, since they don't dissipate heat via sweat through their skin. I'm watchful of overheating when I walk mine in the summer, especially my old guy.

Sigh, I do understand about dogs out of their climate zone -- the South isn't exactly a native environment for Siberians! Yack. What a cutie you have! Can't resist that face.

TL, thinning shears, ha! Hairdresser used them on me when I was a kid; my hair was SO thick. Forgot all about them. I'd give a lot now to have that hair to put back where it was.

--- Laurie

 

[aviastar]

JF-many thanks!

AGBF- my apologies!!! I've missed the window for editing, but I realize I have reversed two letters in your handle in my previous posts so sorry!

 

[IdLikeToBuyAVal]

AGBF - I LOVE a Newfie!! I had the opportunity to make friends with one at Bark in the Park (our local Humane Society benefit) and they are just GORGEOUS dogs! The one I petted was so soft! Griffin is adorable!

 

[MsP]

If your dogs hair is coarse, I would suspect that the furminator won't work. Read the package... it isn't recommended for some breeds. My parents tried it on their dog that has husky/shepherd type fur and undercoat and it didn't work at all...just mangled his hair.

 

[AGBF]

AGBF- my apologies!!! I've missed the window for editing, but I realize I have reversed two letters in your handle in my previous posts so sorry!

Thank you for posting about it, aviastar, but it was hardly a matter for offence! I started to use "AGBF" years ago on another diamond board to stand the acronym, of the last words in, "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend". That's the only reason for the order of, "A-G-B-F". It isn't as if it is a special family name or anything! Nonetheless, it was very kind of you to notice and comment!

Hugs,
Deb

 

[AGBF]

By the way, I never weighed in on the issue at hand! My breeder advised me to use a specific dematting comb, which I bought. I now have no idea which one it was, but it wasn't this one. It looked exactly like this one, however. I am sure she simply recommended the other one to me because she knew, as she knew about everything, where to get one most cheaply but still of good quality! I have three things I use on Griff: a simple wire brush; this dematting tool; and a strong metal comb.

You have all made me consider this furminator thing, but I doubt I need it. Now that Griff was groomed and I am diligent about keeping him, we are doing OK. I realize that I was avoiding the mats before because I didn't want to tackle them and hurt him. I wasn't used to that kind of coat, even though I had had long haired breeds (like a Golden Retriever) before. It was unconscious. Now I go after the mats right away.

My daughter walked Griffin twice today, once on the road (the usual) and once at a river park where there are a lot of dogs and their owners. Later she told me that "3 out of 100" people don't say he's a beautiful dog since he had his hair cut. She said that "Heidi Klum doesn't get as many compliments" as Griffin does and that it's a good thing he's not a person because if he understood what people were saying he'd get a swelled head. She said he was, "a chick magnet".

A picture of the de-matting comb is below.

Deb/AGBF

 

[JewelFreak]

Glad you found something that works for Griffin, Deb. The whole idea gets much easier if you have the right tools.

"Chick magnet," great! When I had my first Siberian pup, DH loved to walk her around San Francisco. He came home w/his eyes big as dinner plates & a huge smile. "I have news for my bachelor friends!" he crowed. "Ditch the fancy sports car; get a puppy!"

--- Laurie

 

[AGBF]

Glad you found something that works for Griffin, Deb. The whole idea gets much easier if you have the right tools.

Thanks, Laurie. After looking at the pile of fur you left behind from your Siberians and reading davi's comments again, I looked at the descriptions of the plastic rake and the furminator (the newer version) last night and ordered them, too. I think they are different from anything I have and I am willing to see if they make grooming Griffin easier. The desciption of the plastic rake made me laugh, because it described a lot of what Griffin brings in with him! Gee...if it rakes out burrs and sprigs that fall from trees and small sticks and dead leaves and old berries, it may get 20% of what's in Griffin's tail at any given moment! Once he came in with a two foot length of thorn on his chest and I didn't even notice it for several hours, but that happens when you've got a lot of fur! A rake might be a good thing!!!

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions...even though they weren't made for my benefit!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I own two Mars Coat Kings. Seriously, I was the QUEEN of stripping undercoats for years. I would get as much of Byron's undercoat out as possible in the summers and he tolerated the heat pretty well. I was firmly in the "never shave your dog, it's bad for their coat" camp...until this year.

My issue is that Bo swims. Everyday. I own the most powerful grooming dryer known to man, so when I take him to swim and dry him, it's fine. But our dog walker can't dry him and it was leading to very bad mats on a daily basis. I was grooming Bo for at least an hour every day and I was very worried about hotspots since he couldn't properly dry after his daily swims with the walker. And the last thing I would want to do is keep him from swimming.

So this year I shaved Bo. and OH MY GOD WHY DIDN'T I DO THIS BEFORE?! He could not be happier, I can't tell you what a difference i t's made for him. He absolutely loves the new coat. So while I was firmly in the "never shave your dog" camp and suggested using a rake to strip out the undercoat, I will always shave in the summers now. Here is a before and after pic: