Question about H&A after reviewing stones at a B&M

[IceExplorer]

I visited a higher end local B&M. I informed the sales agent (SA) that I was doing a little research online.

My questions to PriceScope:

1) Is it in-fact ''impossible" to see the "hearts and arrows" through a 10x loop because it requires very expensive special equipment?

2) Is it true Ideal Scope reports are hard to get unless the diamond comes with then?

3) Instead of an Ideal Scope reports should I focus my attention on a branded diamond like Tacori because they come with Gem-Ex reports and that is better?



This jeweler was pushing Tacori quite hard. I asked if he could show me a Solasfera, he said he wasn''t familiar with that brand. Is that common?
The pricing was anywhere from 75%-110% higher than I''ve found in my PS searches.
He suggested that take caution in what I read online because there is a lot of falsehoods put forth by bored housewives and pond shop operators that think they are professionals. Prior to leaving I made sure to work in to the conversation that there was tremendous information available at Pricescope.com. I''m pretty sure he doesn''t expect to see me back there.

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 11/10/2009 3:23:22 PM
Author:IceExplorer
I visited a higher end local B&M. I informed the sales agent (SA) that I was doing a little research online.

My questions to PriceScope:

1) Is it in-fact 'impossible' to see the 'hearts and arrows' through a 10x loop because it requires very expensive special equipment? Actually, the simple H&A viewers are pretty inexpensive. Several vendors send them with the diamond when a purchase is made. A person with a little experience can make out characteristics of the arrows under a loupe, but the hearts really take the viewer, you cannot see them with just a loupe.

2) Is it true Ideal Scope reports are hard to get unless the diamond comes with then? Idealscope is a viewing tool. Once again, a basic IS viewer is inexpensive, though the ones used by many of the online vendors for photos are not. They are available to anyone to purchase http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp

3) Instead of an Ideal Scope reports should I focus my attention on a branded diamond like Tacori because they come with Gem-Ex reports and that is better? IdealScope is not a report, just an image that when read properly can give insight into characteristics of the diamond. It is not unusual for a B&M person to not be that familiar with them.



This jeweler was pushing Tacori quite hard. I asked if he could show me a Solasfera, he said he wasn't familiar with that brand. Is that common?
There are many branded diamonds out there and it wouldn't be unusual for a SA to not be familiar with all of them. Actually, I'd be surprised if you could find one that was familiar with very many, because of the sheer numbers.
The pricing was anywhere from 75%-110% higher than I've found in my PS searches. He suggested that take caution in what I read online because there is a lot of falsehoods put forth by bored housewives and pond shop operators that think they are professionals. Prior to leaving I made sure to work in to the conversation that there was tremendous information available at Pricescope.com. I'm pretty sure he doesn't expect to see me back there.

Unfortunately, there are many salespeople and B&M's that see anything Internet as the "enemy" and try to steer people away. In some respects, they are right that it is very easy for someone to start a website or post on a forum wildly inaccurate information. In a greater respect, they are wrong because there is also a lot of good information and vendors on the 'net that can suddenly make an unscrupulous or unknowledgable jeweler look bad.

One thing I like about PS is that there is a good mix of consumers and true experts that hold each other accountable and don't just say "take my word for it". Instead most posters just present what information they have and ask the consumer to research and before making a decision.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto jet2ks, basically the B&M SA is talking crap. Also, hearts image can only be seen from the pavilion, so once the stone is mounted you will no longer be able to do so.

 

[outatouch0]

I love these threads

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/10/2009 3:38:04 PM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 11/10/2009 3:23:22 PM
Author:IceExplorer
I visited a higher end local B&M. I informed the sales agent (SA) that I was doing a little research online.

My questions to PriceScope:

1) Is it in-fact ''impossible'' to see the ''hearts and arrows'' through a 10x loop because it requires very expensive special equipment? Actually, the simple H&A viewers are pretty inexpensive. Several vendors send them with the diamond when a purchase is made. A person with a little experience can make out characteristics of the arrows under a loupe, but the hearts really take the viewer, you cannot see them with just a loupe.

2) Is it true Ideal Scope reports are hard to get unless the diamond comes with then? Idealscope is a viewing tool. Once again, a basic IS viewer is inexpensive, though the ones used by many of the online vendors for photos are not. They are available to anyone to purchase http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp

3) Instead of an Ideal Scope reports should I focus my attention on a branded diamond like Tacori because they come with Gem-Ex reports and that is better? IdealScope is not a report, just an image that when read properly can give insight into characteristics of the diamond. It is not unusual for a B&M person to not be that familiar with them.



This jeweler was pushing Tacori quite hard. I asked if he could show me a Solasfera, he said he wasn''t familiar with that brand. Is that common?
There are many branded diamonds out there and it wouldn''t be unusual for a SA to not be familiar with all of them. Actually, I''d be surprised if you could find one that was familiar with very many, because of the sheer numbers.
The pricing was anywhere from 75%-110% higher than I''ve found in my PS searches. He suggested that take caution in what I read online because there is a lot of falsehoods put forth by bored housewives and pond shop operators that think they are professionals. Prior to leaving I made sure to work in to the conversation that there was tremendous information available at Pricescope.com. I''m pretty sure he doesn''t expect to see me back there.

Unfortunately, there are many salespeople and B&M''s that see anything Internet as the ''enemy'' and try to steer people away. In some respects, they are right that it is very easy for someone to start a website or post on a forum wildly inaccurate information. In a greater respect, they are wrong because there is also a lot of good information and vendors on the ''net that can suddenly make an unscrupulous or unknowledgable jeweler look bad.

One thing I like about PS is that there is a good mix of consumers and true experts that hold each other accountable and don''t just say ''take my word for it''. Instead most posters just present what information they have and ask the consumer to research and before making a decision.

Jet answered beautifully!!

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 11/10/2009 3:38:04 PM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 11/10/2009 3:23:22 PM

Author:IceExplorer

I visited a higher end local B&M. I informed the sales agent (SA) that I was doing a little research online.


My questions to PriceScope:


1) Is it in-fact 'impossible' to see the 'hearts and arrows' through a 10x loop because it requires very expensive special equipment? Actually, the simple H&A viewers are pretty inexpensive. Several vendors send them with the diamond when a purchase is made. A person with a little experience can make out characteristics of the arrows under a loupe, but the hearts really take the viewer, you cannot see them with just a loupe.

Ice, if you haven't seen it yet, the Basics of Diamond Cutting article is absolutely fantastic. But more pertinently... there's a great picture just past 1/4 the way down in the section called "How the Hearts are Formed" that shows H&A diamonds, pavilion-up, and not through an H&A viewer. They're really, really, really difficult to pick out, but it can be done with a loupe in a pinch and if you stare at them long enough. What you will be able to tell with a loupe, though, is whether the diamonds have some semblance of optical symmetry, or if they're just chaos. However, in order to grade the hearts (see the "Grading the Hearts" section a little further down)... you absolutely will need the contrast of the H&A viewer. (or a prodigal eye and a ton of time...)

Anyway, I definitely agree that the line about the "very expensive special equipment" is a special load of crap. For fun, I'd buy one, go back, and then say you can't buy their diamonds anymore cause you broke the bank on this amazing $10 viewer

 

[Hest88]

there is a lot of falsehoods put forth by bored housewives and pond shop operators that think they are professionals.

BWAH! The real question is: what does he have to gain vs. what do we here on PS have to gain?

As Garry once said, there are all these salespeople out there who want us to bow down to their superiority.

No, an educated consumer is *not* going to just buy whatever a salesperson says he should buy, at whatever price he may throw out!

 

[AprilBaby]

I don''t think too many of us are bored housewives?

 

[IceExplorer]

Jet2Ks:
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. It is greatly appreciated.

Stone-cold11:
Thanks for your input.

Lorelei:
Thanks for reaffirming what was said. I''ve read a number of your posts and value the experience and knowledge you share with everyone here.


Tonyc2387:
Great information! I''ll follow-up on all the references you''ve offered.

Hest88:
I found that particular comment to be excessively defensive on his part. It really compromised what little integrity he had managed to show me up to that point.

AprilBaby:
Whether people are housewives or bored is irrelevant to me, everyone sharing information here seems to be well informed and their efforts are greatly appreciated!! I know my future fiance is going to greatly appreciate all the in-depth knowledge that is going to put towards some sexy finger bling!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:40:57 PM
Author: IceExplorer
Jet2Ks:
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. It is greatly appreciated.

Stone-cold11:
Thanks for your input.

Lorelei:
Thanks for reaffirming what was said. I''ve read a number of your posts and value the experience and knowledge you share with everyone here.


Tonyc2387:
Great information! I''ll follow-up on all the references you''ve offered.

Hest88:
I found that particular comment to be excessively defensive on his part. It really compromised what little integrity he had managed to show me up to that point.

AprilBaby:
Whether people are housewives or bored is irrelevant to me, everyone sharing information here seems to be well informed and their efforts are greatly appreciated!! I know my future fiance is going to greatly appreciate all the in-depth knowledge that is going to put towards some sexy finger bling!

Thank you so much iceexplorer, your kind words are much appreciated!

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:40:57 PM
Author: IceExplorer
Jet2Ks:
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. It is greatly appreciated.

Stone-cold11:
Thanks for your input.

Lorelei:
Thanks for reaffirming what was said. I''ve read a number of your posts and value the experience and knowledge you share with everyone here.


Tonyc2387:
Great information! I''ll follow-up on all the references you''ve offered.

Hest88:
I found that particular comment to be excessively defensive on his part. It really compromised what little integrity he had managed to show me up to that point.

AprilBaby:
Whether people are housewives or bored is irrelevant to me, everyone sharing information here seems to be well informed and their efforts are greatly appreciated!! I know my future fiance is going to greatly appreciate all the in-depth knowledge that is going to put towards some sexy finger bling!

You are very welcome. Best of luck with your diamond search, and if you have any more questions or would like some help searching, feel free to ask.

 

[tonyc2387]

Definitely agree with jet & hest on the B&M vs online. Matter of fact, I''ve done some thinking about it, cause I just had to tell a B&M SA myself that I was going with an online purchase. Basically, it comes back to the fact that the first word in these folks'' job titles is "sales"... they will say anything they need to to close the sale. That being said, those that express disdain for the internet, especially in unnecessary levels, are going to be in big trouble.

Consider this: People my age (low 20''s), and especially people younger, have exponentially increasing exposure to the internet. For better or worse, these folks will be more comfortable, savvy, and ultimately likely to use it to get what they want. The B&M vendors who continue to dismiss this outright or otherwise make wild/unsupported claims will look more and more archaic and untrustworthy themselves, which will drive their customers away more often than it will close the sale. You simply cannot tell customers everything they know is wrong. Furthermore, once said stores are deemed untrustworthy, said customers will *never* go back, which is much, much worse than missing that first sale. On the other hand, SA''s (and vendors!) that embrace the knowledge that customers have and figure out a way to maintain a perception of value in the service they give, will be the ones that win. Case in point: GOG. Never would have known about them otherwise, but if I wasn''t on such a tight budget, I would gladly have gotten myself there and paid a premium for their service; and they remain on my short list of vendors to get jewelry from in the future.

I really feel sorry for the SA''s that think that the best way to combat the internet is to call it a collection of housewives. In my case, it kind of caught her off guard when I told her I was looking online and the stuff she was selling really didn''t compare. She pretty much immediately reverted back to the "lifetime warranty/service/internet sucks" schpiel, and when that had no effect, she couldn''t get off the phone fast enough... but ultimately, she did nothing to address the real issue, which was getting the kind of diamond I wanted.

Anyway, sorry... I don''t mean to threadjack. I''ve just been thinking about how sad B&M''s futures are if they stay their course.

I know my future fiance is going to greatly appreciate all the in-depth knowledge that is going to put towards some sexy finger bling!

She sure will! Nothing like telling the FF you spent the time and effort to get the best there is! (and then going back to the stores to prove it [:uptosomething:]) I know I can''t wait... but I''ll probably just wind up letting the insane amounts of shiny take care of the

Best of luck in your search!