Question about DQR''s and Expert opion on ASET and IS image

[hgau999]

Have a question that''s been bothering me. I''m looking at a stone that I''m considering it has a AGS DQR, which has polish and symmetry graded at "excellent". Can an "ideal" grading be given to AGS DQR''s.

Can you expert out there take a look at this ASET and IS pics. and give me an opinion.

 

[hgau999]

Here''s the IS image.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 9/5/2007 7:50:38 PM
Author:hgau999
Have a question that's been bothering me. I'm looking at a stone that I'm considering it has a AGS DQR, which has polish and symmetry graded at 'excellent'. Can an 'ideal' grading be given to AGS DQR's.

Nope - excellent covers both Ideal and Excellent on the DQRs. Why? DQR is a cheaper option and I guess it would take additional time to discern between ID and EX. But maybe it's just makes a DQD a more attractive option.

Can you expert out there take a look at this ASET and IS pics. and give me an opinion.

I'm no expert, but pics look great - very nicely distributed contrast. I'm surprized only a DQR was ordered.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

(Not an expert, but...) This must be a WF expert selection stone...excellent IS, but for some minor reason it did not make ACA. They don''t get the more expensive cert unless they know the stone will make ACA requirements. WF ES stones are often excellent stones at a nice price.

 

[Ellen]

It will be gorgeous, no doubt.

 

[hgau999]

Yes it is from WF. I''ve been wanting to buy an ACA from them because all the excellent reviews I''ve read on this board. But haven''t found one with specs that have caught my eye. I thought the ASET and IS images and specs look nice too, but because it only scored an ES just bothers me. It must mean there is something wrong with it. Like the adage goes "If it''s too good to be true then it probably is" or I''m just being paranoid. Wish they would give some sort of light performance scoring..ahhh

 

[stebbo]

Date: 9/5/2007 9:22:41 PM
Author: hgau999
Yes it is from WF. I've been wanting to buy an ACA from them because all the excellent reviews I've read on this board. But haven't found one with specs that have caught my eye. I thought the ASET and IS images and specs look nice too, but because it only scored an ES just bothers me. It must mean there is something wrong with it. Like the adage goes 'If it's too good to be true then it probably is' or I'm just being paranoid. Wish they would give some sort of light performance scoring..ahhh

My first guess would be it's not true H&A, hence couldn't make ACA status. It's definitely arrows though!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It could be something as insignificant as excellent polish instead of ideal! Call and ask. They''ll certainly tell you why it didn''t make ACA. But you have to understand, many ideal diamonds do not meet the ACA requirements. So it is probably something like this (and I am just guessing numbers here)....ideal cut diamonds are the top 5% of diamonds and ACA''s are in the top 2%, perhaps. But I think 99.9% of people would be proud to own a diamond in the top 5%, don''t you think?

 

[BigDiamonds]

Date: 9/5/2007 9:22:41 PM
Author: hgau999
Yes it is from WF. I''ve been wanting to buy an ACA from them because all the excellent reviews I''ve read on this board. But haven''t found one with specs that have caught my eye. I thought the ASET and IS images and specs look nice too, but because it only scored an ES just bothers me. It must mean there is something wrong with it. Like the adage goes ''If it''s too good to be true then it probably is'' or I''m just being paranoid. Wish they would give some sort of light performance scoring..ahhh

I have an ES from WF, and I LOVE it. I''m ecstatic about the stone that I got for the price I paid. I had Neil appraise it, and his take was that it didn''t make the ACA cut due to some minor imperfections on the hearts. He said that this is a common reason for a stone to end up in the ES pile. The imperfection is completely invisible to the eye and I have no regrets on my stone.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 9/5/2007 9:46:39 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
It could be something as insignificant as excellent polish instead of ideal! Call and ask. They'll certainly tell you why it didn't make ACA. But you have to understand, many ideal diamonds do not meet the ACA requirements. So it is probably something like this (and I am just guessing numbers here)....ideal cut diamonds are the top 5% of diamonds and ACA's are in the top 2%, perhaps. But I think 99.9% of people would be proud to own a diamond in the top 5%, don't you think?

Looking at the stone a bit further, it looks like it was just outside the cutting guidelines for an AGS0 so a DQR was requested instead. Of course John feel free to tell me I'm full of you know what...

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/5/2007 11:06:06 PM
Author: stebbo

Date: 9/5/2007 9:46:39 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
It could be something as insignificant as excellent polish instead of ideal! Call and ask. They''ll certainly tell you why it didn''t make ACA. But you have to understand, many ideal diamonds do not meet the ACA requirements. So it is probably something like this (and I am just guessing numbers here)....ideal cut diamonds are the top 5% of diamonds and ACA''s are in the top 2%, perhaps. But I think 99.9% of people would be proud to own a diamond in the top 5%, don''t you think?

Looking at the stone a bit further, it looks like it was just outside the cutting guidelines for an AGS0 so a DQR was requested instead. Of course John feel free to tell me I''m full of you know what...

Do tell, Stebbo?

For us the line we sell it in (ACA or ES) implies the document: We request DQRs for all Expert Selection diamonds sent to AGSL, even those which receive 0 light performance. This is because A Cut Above is our "all the bells and whistles" brand (all have DQDs). The whole premise of Expert Selection is "best value for the money" and the less costly DQR helps us sell ES diamonds at a lower price.

About this diamond: The 40.5/34.6 combo is outside 0 on the cutting guidelines. The AGS PGS software gives it a 0 in light performance - diamonds on the border can go either way depending on optical symmetry & other cut particulars - but it''s an ES stone so we requested the DQR.

Once in a while you can run across a stray ES diamond with a DQD. It''s rare but it happens; usually a diamond that was kept from being ACA after it returned from the lab for some reason of Brian''s.

 

[strmrdr]

40.5/34.6 can go either way depending on whats in the average.
Its a good sign that it got the 0 in light performance.
If I was considering such a stone I would have the vendor eyeball it for contrast related issues.

 

[hgau999]

Thanks for all your inputs. I think will have it visually inspected. Anything else you guys suggest I have them look at beside light contrast? The stone has several inclusions and the AGS report in comment section noted there are some unmarked clouds. The sales representative said because this stone is VS2 the inclusion shouldn''t be visible in to the naked eye. However I think want them to inspect the clouds to see what impact it has on the stone performance. Is this a valid concern? Thanks again.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/6/2007 9:22:00 AM
Author: hgau999
Thanks for all your inputs. I think will have it visually inspected. Anything else you guys suggest I have them look at beside light contrast? The stone has several inclusions and the AGS report in comment section noted there are some unmarked clouds. The sales representative said because this stone is VS2 the inclusion shouldn''t be visible in to the naked eye. However I think want them to inspect the clouds to see what impact it has on the stone performance. Is this a valid concern? Thanks again.

They are correct. Of course, if you have them on the phone looking at the diamond anyway, it can''t hurt to ask, to ease your fears.

 

[hgau999]

About this diamond: The 40.5/34.6 combo is outside 0 on the cutting guidelines. The AGS PGS software gives it a 0 in light performance - diamonds on the border can go either way depending on optical symmetry & other cut particulars - but it''s an ES stone so we requested the DQR.

Being that this combinations (40.5/34.6) is outside of the 0 cut guidelines would that affect how the H&A would appear as well?

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/6/2007 10:27:03 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/6/2007 9:22:00 AM
Author: hgau999
Thanks for all your inputs. I think will have it visually inspected. Anything else you guys suggest I have them look at beside light contrast? The stone has several inclusions and the AGS report in comment section noted there are some unmarked clouds. The sales representative said because this stone is VS2 the inclusion shouldn''t be visible in to the naked eye. However I think want them to inspect the clouds to see what impact it has on the stone performance. Is this a valid concern? Thanks again.

They are correct. Of course, if you have them on the phone looking at the diamond anyway, it can''t hurt to ask, to ease your fears.

I have to think that in the best of circumstances...if something like clouds might effect VS2''s performance...and this is Garry''s topic du jour of late...I don''t think looking at one, eyeballing it, will give this a yes or no answer (and within a week''s time, Garry has changed his tune...saying yes it could and no it wouldn''t affect performance).

Surely it can be no easier than judging color...for which a standard operating procedure will be to reference a master set. Likewise...I think you''d need another to several other diamonds rated more or less at 0 for light performance, and then do some kind of visual comparison.

But...then again...according to GIA...visually...AGS0 - 3 may cover your spread for AGS0 if translated to a "clinical"...i.e. viewing test...to see if and how performance is effected.

But...the claim is that performance is effected visually. It is noticeable. So...yes...you''d be looking for something...if cloud apprehension is the idea.

Note again...the idea that a VS2''s performance would be affected by clouds, by my reading, is somewhat controversial. And...I think the question is only intended to apply if the cloud sets the grade. It could be asked if this applies here at all.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/6/2007 11:27:59 AM
Author: Regular Guy

I have to think that in the best of circumstances...if something like clouds might effect VS2''s performance...and this is Garry''s topic du jour of late...I don''t think looking at one, eyeballing it, will give this a yes or no answer (and within a week''s time, Garry has changed his tune...saying yes it could and no it wouldn''t affect performance).

Yes. And Gary is the only expert I have ever heard make this comment.

I am not implying he is wrong in his assessment, merely making an observation.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/6/2007 10:49:41 AM
Author: hgau999

About this diamond: The 40.5/34.6 combo is outside 0 on the cutting guidelines. The AGS PGS software gives it a 0 in light performance - diamonds on the border can go either way depending on optical symmetry & other cut particulars - but it's an ES stone so we requested the DQR.

Being that this combinations (40.5/34.6) is outside of the 0 cut guidelines would that affect how the H&A would appear as well?

No. In fact, diamonds far outside of 0 can be cut with the H&A effect and lack top light performance.

However, no matter how great the pattern is, we do not sell ES as hearts & arrows diamonds (this is a Brian Gavin 'H&A snob' thing).

The clouds in this diamond do not impact its performance in any way. Any reputable seller who has gemologists on staff analyzing each diamond they approve for inventory will safeguard against this, just as we do fluorescence, feathers, etc. Failing to do so would be the kiss of death for a quality-focused seller, especially on the internet.

There is a 'fear de jour' about clouds lately, based in some part on observations about GIA grading Garry saw in his travels. It's a legitimate concern in SI2 or "clarity grade based on clouds..." diamonds, particularly with drop-shippers or sellers who don't actually put the stone under the scope themselves. The VS clarity diamonds we carry have not had such issues with clouds, but we'll certainly remain vigilant.