Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Question about antique cuts.

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
beaujolais

beaujolais

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
2,223
Question about antique cuts:

In stones where the center faceting is really large (not sure of what you'd call that area) (where you sometimes see a maltese cross) - does that area not return much light and color? In these stones is most of the light and color coming from the more outer areas of the stone?

Here's an example of the type I mean:

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1766&SHAPE=OM&PAGE=4&SORT=WEIGHT

---

Also, is a maltese cross a bad thing? I know some like them but do most people like it or avoid it?

Thanks.
 
Hey sonoma, thought you may find this link interesting, I posted it a lil while ago, and got some great info from those cluey on old cuts. [
5.gif
 
Hi Sonoma,

The Maltese cross is not necessarily a bad thing - its a matter of preference, mostly. Besides, as stated in the posts from the link that AJ posted above, they are barely noticeable IRL. I promise!

Good luck with your search!
 
Thanks Grace, Jane.

Yes, Jane, I did search first and saw that thread. Thanks.

However, the question still is, that was not discussed in that thread:

In stones where the center faceting is really large (not sure of what you''d call that area) (where you sometimes see a maltese cross) - does that area not return much light and color? In these stones is most of the light and color coming from the more outer areas of the stone?

Thanks.
 
Date: 10/26/2008 7:02:58 AM
Author: sonomacounty
Thanks Grace, Jane.

Yes, Jane, I did search first and saw that thread. Thanks.

However, the question still is, that was not discussed in that thread:

In stones where the center faceting is really large (not sure of what you''d call that area) (where you sometimes see a maltese cross) - does that area not return much light and color? In these stones is most of the light and color coming from the more outer areas of the stone?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Ok !
I don''t know how to answer your Q, sorry - hopefully someone else will.
5.gif
 
I would think that it probably depends on the stone and that''s why it''s nice to see an ASET or see it in person. I have a little OEC with some of the "deeper" faceting in the middle (not quite the cross, but same idea) and that little guy sparkles like mad and doesn''t have a dead spot in the center. But I would think that it could also result in a dead spot in the center in certain stones...but I am just speculating here.
 
Date: 10/26/2008 7:02:58 AM
Author: sonomacounty
Thanks Grace, Jane.

Yes, Jane, I did search first and saw that thread. Thanks.

However, the question still is, that was not discussed in that thread:

In stones where the center faceting is really large (not sure of what you''d call that area) (where you sometimes see a maltese cross) - does that area not return much light and color? In these stones is most of the light and color coming from the more outer areas of the stone?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Antique cuts are cut to so many different angle combinations...., its on a case by case basis! My question to you is..., what do you mean by "outer areas"?
 
Thanks Jane, Neat. Thanks Diagem.

Neat - it's encouraging that your center does not go dead. Thanks for telling me.

By outer areas, I mean - picture a donut as being your diamond. The hole in the middle being the "inner area" (which would be the open culet, maltese cross area). The "outer area" being all of what is outside of this.

I don't think the seller I'm looking at does ASETs and all.

---

I'm wanting to get an old cut. I have an affinity for old miners but am wondering if an oec is a better bet, as they are not usually as "open" in the middle.
 
Date: 10/26/2008 10:33:57 AM
Author: sonomacounty

I''m wanting to get an old cut. I have an affinity for old miners but am wondering if an oec is a better bet, as they are not usually as ''open'' in the middle.
Click to expand...

I think that''s a big generalization. You should just find one that speaks to you regardless of what the "name" is you know? Not all old cushions have maltese crosses if you don''t like that look and some OEC''s (like mine!) have them. Just depends.
 
--- You should just find one that speaks to you ---

Absolutely. I've found one that (sort of) speaks to me but I have questions about how the center of it performs. It's an internet diamond so I can't see it in person till I get it.

Thanks so much.
 
Date: 10/26/2008 10:41:29 AM
Author: sonomacounty
--- You should just find one that speaks to you ---


Absolutely. I''ve found one that (sort of) speaks to me but I have questions about how the center of it performs. It''s an internet diamond so I can''t see it in person till I get it.


Thanks so much.
Click to expand...

Is it from OWD? Can you ask Adam to make a video of it for you? He''s really nice I am sure he would be honest with you about performance.
 
No, but Great Idea. I''ll e-mail the vendor and ask him if he can do a video.

What would I do without all of you?

A big kiss to all. xxxooo
 
Can''t wait to see it!!!
 
Ack ! That presupposes that I''m getting it.

Sometimes it''s o.k. when I check out something and find it not to work out as then the bank account doesn''t suffer.
2.gif
I''m keeping purchases down to things that I truly love.
 
I think the center''s performance would depend a lot on depth and angles of crown/pavilion. If they''re all working well together, I suspect you''d get some ginormous beautiful flashes of fire off those large facets. If they''re not working well, I suspect it''d be very nailhead-y looking and dark in the middle.

I think it is *very* personal preference as far as whether one likes those windmill/cross shaped facets. Some antique cushions have them, some old mine cuts have them... speaking very generally it is often a characteristic of the older examples of those cutting styles.

It''s darn hard to shop for old cuts online, especially the oldest styles of them... they can be smashing or icky and very hard to tell without a helpful trustworthy vendor or your eyeballs checking them out. OECs can be a hair easier to look for online because you can (loosely) apply some RB characteristics to help evaluate them... the HCA sorta works on them, it at least can help evaluate whether the table size, depth and angles work OK together (though the HCA doesn''t like culets much, especially larger ones.) They''re also a bit more predictable looking, I think, or maybe it''s just that I like them best!

I''d pester Adam at OldWorldDiamonds.com; he is very helpful as far as evaluating stones for you. Or JewelsbyEricaGrace.com, also a great vendor, they hand pick a smallish selection of good performers. Both of those places would be a good source for the antique cushions or OMCs, and OECs too. I hear good things about SingleStone but have never personally worked with them.
 
Thanks Little Grey ! ! I was hoping you''d reply.

The one I was looking at but decided not to was this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37-SI2-N-Old-Mine-Cushion-Shape-Loose-Diamond_W0QQitemZ360095567177QQihZ023QQcategoryZ10216QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262#ebayphotohosting

It''s kinda cool, no?

I''ve decided to look for an oec or transitional, though, as the windmill thing is not sitting right with me.

He e-mailed me a side photo of it. It does have the nice tall crown. It shows more color from the side.

I''m not pursuing other vendors yet, as I''m on a "Really-need-a-great-bargain-budget'' with this right now. Maybe at a later date.

What do you think of that stone?

Thanks,

Sonoma
 
Caveat: I see a lot more OECs than mine cuts & cushions, but I like the looks of this one.

Glad to see there's a good return policy- that's a MUST when ebaying for antique diamonds! That makes an appraisal possible after purchase. Good feedback, and able to send extra pics: all very good signs.

I love the squarish shape and the small table. The faceting is cool and a little random, it looks like 1870s-1890s if I had to guess. Though I'm more used to examining OECs, the depth is probably fine for a cushion. Of course, no way to tell if the center of the stone performs well or just sits there doing nothing- it's the sort of thing that makes a no-questions-asked return policy a must on something like this... it's great to see that the seller has one.

I personally have a 1.22ct N SI1 OEC from OldWorldDiamonds; I paid $2500 for it about... oh, 9 months ago. So the price seems quite good too, to be honest, since OWD has raised prices some since I got mine. It almost looks a bit more colored than my N, but pics on a screen are so impossible to evaluate; I love that color range a lot, it is so beautiful (and affordable!) with the old cuts. Also a feather, if not a durability issue, is nice and un-black so it might be eyeclean.

It is a significantly different look than an OEC; more random and an older stone, and it does look like it might/probably would have that windmill thing going on in the middle. I like the flowery look of OECs more than the chunky cushions, myself. But, for what it is, I think the cushion is nice and the price is quite good.

Good luck hunting! If you're open to lower colors like the aution you posted, you're likely to get great bang for your buck.
 
Thanks LGK for your thoughtful and knowlegable reply. I really do appreciate it. (I''m wondering what kind of work you do?)

Is it normal for them to be much more colored from the side than the top?

Thanks again, so very much.

Sonoma
 
I have admired this stone too, and think it would be very pretty irl..how come you decided against this one sonoma?
 
Because of the large faceting in the middle.
 
Me again. Does anyone see any kozibe effect in the photo of it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-37-SI2-N-Old-Mine-Cushion-Shape-Loose-Diamond_W0QQitemZ360095567177QQihZ023QQcategoryZ10216QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

I think I see one in the photo, middle of the left side.

Thanks.
 
Lol, I work at an antique mall... I run the front desk & we sell for about 200 dealers, some of whom specialize in antique jewelry. So I get to play with a lot of eyecandy. It''s also a good way to end up spending your own $! My husband also works with me (my father-in-law owns the business, actually... we own the building but not the business) and it''s terrible- we both collect any number of things and just encourage each other. So the obsession with antique jewelry is in addition to all sorts of other collections
20.gif


Yeah, anything with a lower color looks more-so from the side. My M colored stone looks steely in most lights from the top, but from the side you see some yellow. The N one I have looks ivory from the top and even yellower from the side.

It does look like it has a small enough table that you''re going to see the Kozibe effect with no tilt at all. The smaller the table, the less tilt it takes to show the Kozibe effect. I like that, I think it looks neat, and it''s a lot more subtle in person usually, just like the maltese-cross thing is exaggerated by cameras too.
 
Thanks LGK. How fantastic - I love antiques! And you certainly know your old stones ! I really do appreciate it.

I really do love and was looking for old europeans & transitionals so I''m torn.
 
Date: 10/27/2008 7:15:51 AM
Author: sonomacounty
Because of the large faceting in the middle.
Click to expand...
Oh ok.
Have you spoken to Jewels by Erica Grace?
I think their prices are reasonable, and their stock is gorgeous! They would be my go-to when I finally get an OEC or transitional..
They can also custom source stones for you, and they have a sale on at the moment on current stock!
36.gif
Can you tell I want to shop at Erica Grace, lol..

If you really want an OEC, don't sacrifice and get a OMC instead. I recently bought an OEC which when it arrived, had older faceting and more of an OMC style..even though it was v. pretty and a great price, I just didn't love it.
I think these cuts are very personal and you should fall in love with one.

There is one other seller on Ebay who often has what look like nice antique stones - ronald8310.
I have chatted to them a couple times, they seem knowledgable, but they also have one of those "gross mispresentation" return policies which I wouldn't mess with.
Maybe an option if you are really confident..
 
Hi Jane. Thanks for stopping back.

Um, - I bought the old miners.
9.gif
It will be here on Friday.

You know, in the above post (and for a day or so in my mind), I was doing mind tricks with myself, probably to try not to spend the money. I guess, also, I'm a bit scared of the more open center which it seems you can avoid more in oec's and transitionals.

But, I'm really not a round stone lover (at all), even though I love the other traits of oecs and transitionals. I love cushions & squares.

I was speaking with a friend who I've made look at tons of old stones. They said I may not be able to find another like it for a Very Long Time, esp. at that price. They reminded me that I love the crown height and the warm color is really ok on old stones. The open center will not be as big in real life as it is in the blown up photo. I love the quite square shape on this stone. I kept going to e-bay lots of times a day to look at it because I loved most things about it even if it is not as "safe" or "predictable" as an old round.

So, with a 1.37 ct (with decent spread) for $2,200 with a 30 day return policy from a top rated seller - I now own "little yellow". I think it's kind of neat that Little Yellow is a piece of history and from an era when people used horse and buggys and all.

So, if it stays, any suggestions on setting it? I want a simple antique repro.

Thanks for stopping, thanks for your interest and help.

---

Oh, do you have a guess on when it might have been made? Anyone?

I hope Grace stops in.
 
Oh thats great news ! Like I said originally, I really like that stone and probably would''ve bought it myself if not for the rubbish exchange rate
14.gif

I''m so happy for you, I think it will be gorgeous, and it is a great price
36.gif


I will have a look for settings, do you want W or Y metal? I still suggest contacting Erica Grace for the setting, they have the nicest ones I''ve seen.
 
Wow, that was fast.

Thanks. Thanks for sharing in my new happiness with it.

White - I think. Is that still o.k. with an M? I don't mind if it makes it look warmer. I don't want to go too expensive on the setting, if possible.

I didn't know Grace also sold settings by themselves. I'll look into that. I love her things.

--

Time to get ready for work. Have a great day.

I have to borrow someone's camera with macro and show you the side shot. The high crown is spectacular.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 5:40:06 AM
Author: sonomacounty
Wow, that was fast.

Thanks. Thanks for sharing in my new happiness with it.

White - I think. Is that still o.k. with an M? I don't mind if it makes it look warmer. I don't want to go too expensive on the setting, if possible.

I didn't know Grace also sold settings by themselves. I'll look into that. I love her things.

--

Time to get ready for work. Have a great day.

I have to borrow someone's camera with macro and show you the side shot. The high crown is spectacular.
Click to expand...
Yes, please share lots of photos once you get it ! From my understanding, Grace is able to source vintage settings from different places. It may be only for their stones, but stil worth a try I reckon.
I think WG will look lovely, I think with this stone you should let the warm colour shine, don't worry about trying to mask it !
I'm not sure what your budget is, and I imagine these are not exactly cheap - but have you seen Coati's new James Meyer bezel?
This man's work is amazing - and would go perfectly with your stone. Definately worth an enquiry me thinks.. http://www.jamesmeyerjewelry.com/

Here's Coati's link. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-meyer-bezel-reset-has-arrived.97999/

Here is a pic of one from his site - on a side note, how incredible would yours look with yellow sapphires like in the pic?! Eeekk!
9.gif

If this is anywhere near your budget, you must get one - can you tell I'm excited about your purchase, lol ?! Its like getting to enjoy a piece without buying it, he he..
Hope you have a good day at work !

JM bezel eg.jpg
 
Hi Sonoma,

Based on the stone''s rustic appearance, I would say that it was likely cut in the mid to late 1800''s. The diamond appears promising and has such a beautiful shape to it - cant wait to hear what you think of it, and of course, pictures!

I would agree with AJ (hi AJ *waves*!) that a shape like this would lend itself beautifully to a bezel type setting or a cushion halo with gemstones (blue sapps would would make for a striking contrast),
all depending upon budget, of course.

How will you sleep till Friday ?
9.gif
 
Date: 10/28/2008 12:49:11 PM
Author: HeartingDiamonds
Hi Sonoma,

Based on the stone''s rustic appearance, I would say that it was likely cut in the mid to late 1800''s. The diamond appears promising and has such a beautiful shape to it - cant wait to hear what you think of it, and of course, pictures!

I would agree with AJ (hi AJ *waves*!) that a shape like this would lend itself beautifully to a bezel type setting or a cushion halo with gemstones (blue sapps would would make for a striking contrast),
all depending upon budget, of course.

How will you sleep till Friday ?
9.gif
Click to expand...
Hi HD..., how would you know its not a ''new'' OMC?
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top