Q''s from a Newbie..................

[Detox]

It is now time to look for that ever so special engagement ring. I have been reading these forums for quite a while and looking at some of the online vendor sites to get an idea of what is out there, and how much things will cost.

I currently understand the 4 C''s (can distinguish them I guess) but recently have started research a little more depth (ie. pavillion angle, crow angle, girdle thickness etc) Unlike many of the posts here my GF and I decided that she would not take part in choosing the ring. Of Course I have a generally idea of what she does and doesn''t like, we (I) and trying to maintain and element of surprise.

She and I both have a classic no flashy approach and I have narrowed my design options to three. 1. Solitaire Round Diamond (0.70C-1.0C) 2. Solitaire Princess (0.7C-1.0C) and 3. Three Stone Diamond Setting of center 0.70C with 2x0.30C diamonds. All of these will either be set in white gold or platnium.

Some of my initial questions (most of these questions refer to the round diamond)

1. There appears to be a significant price difference between round diamonds that are SI1 and VS1. I was at a jewellers last week and looked at two different 1C diamonds, similar in specs but one was SI1 and the other VS1. I didn''t really notice a diffence. In fact, the SI1 dimond looked nice IMO. Therefore, is there some kind of rule of thumb regarding SI1 and higher graded diamonds. If the inclusions are so small you can only see them with a 10x loupe then why does it really matter?]

2. Color, these diamonds will be set in white gold, or platinum. Is "I" color or better generally fine?

3. When looking into the more detailed paramenters after the 4C''s such as table, girdle, cutlet etc. In order to simplify, are there certain criteria I should zero in on and others that aren''t as important?

4. I currently live in Toronto, Canada. The prices of the online vendors are very attractive. Birks Jelwellers here showed me a 1C VS2 ex/ex but the cost was $15,000CAD. I have seen 1C diamonds online, with the price conversion for almost 1/3 that price. Once I have a better understanding the specifications of a diamond, I have no proble ordering online based on specs. My concern is that I have read reports where even though the diamond has great specs it doesn''t "sing". Does this happen often?

My comfort budget for the ring is around $5000-$7000CAD. Which is currently around $4000USD.

Thanks in advance for all the help.........

Detox.

 

[JohnQuixote]

The price leap from SI to VS clarity has to do with peace of mind in the assurance that there will be no visible inclusions in an appropriately graded stone of VS and above. SI clarity stones may show inclusions, depending on the lab, the diamond and the viewer.

That said, there are great values to be had among diamonds graded SI that do face up eye clean - because you are not paying for pedigree of VS and above. Here is a current thread on what constitutes “eye clean” in the realm of SI.

When looking for a round you can use cut proportions and ideal-scope images to make many determinations about performance. If you go the princess route you will need to focus more on the ideal-scope image, and use a trusted vendor or appraiser to actually view the diamond for you (fancies cannot be judged by measurements alone).

Cut quality is the answer to your color question with rounds. Rounds are color-graded from the side, so the maximized light return of a well-cut diamond enables it to face-up ‘whiter’ than the graded color. There are many threads about these stones and photos in the SMTR folder. Of course, this is not so with non-rounds – their color is their color.

Details: Girdle descriptions are very important. Briefly – avoid the extremes of ex thin and ex thick. Be especially cautious of princess cuts and very/extremely thin girdles. There is much girdle discussion in threads here and in tutorials. Symmetry and polish are important, but grades of VG and EX, much like VS and above in clarity, are equal in the eyes of the viewer.

Bravo to you for educating yourself and providing the best balance of quality and value for your intended.

 

[Spear]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 104px">Date: 5/12/2005 1:00:45 PM
Author:Detox

I didn''t really notice a diffence. In fact, the SI1 dimond looked nice IMO. Therefore, is there some kind of rule of thumb regarding SI1 and higher graded diamonds. If the inclusions are so small you can only see them with a 10x loupe then why does it really matter?]

When ur girlfriend shows off her engagement ring to her friends, Are they going to pull out a loupe and inspect the inclusions?
No...of coarse not!

So if you can''t see the inclusions with the naked eye, then what does it matter?

But you should know about “hazardous inclusions”
These are typically cleavages and fractures, which collectively are called feathers.

These inclusions can be very dangerous especially if they reach the table or extend through the girdle area from the crown to the pavilion.

Diamond''s with these inclusions can actually brake if your GF accidentally bumps the ring into a hard surface.

Apparently SI''s are the best selling stones in the US, and I feel that there is nothing wrong with buying an SI as long as you stay away from hazardous inclusions.

I am not an expert so please return and review this thread for additional advise from professionals.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Good work checking out the possibilities in depth beforehand.

As John mentioned, performance is very important. I would prefer a good looking SI1 with great light return and beauty, to a VS1 that lacks it. The different proportion grading systems out there are changing and light behavior is taking a prominent role in value. Current proportion grading systems are an indication, but not a guarantee that they represent the maximum beauty to the eye.

I suggest viewing several diamonds, together at the same time, that are in the range of your preferences. Be sure you have a return policy, then take the gem of your choice to an accredited independent appraiser, and request a detailed evaluation and valuation.

It sounds like you are an educated shopper, and likely to get a beautiful diamond

 

[Regular Guy]

Detox,

Something like this might be a good place to start...we got ours from DCD, with this ring, which may or may not be uniquely available from DCD, not having shopped it elsewhere, but the combo seems consistent with one of the options you were looking for.

Re:

Date: 5/12/2005 1:00:45 PM
Author:Detox

3. When looking into the more detailed paramenters after the 4C''s such as table, girdle, cutlet etc. In order to simplify, are there certain criteria I should zero in on and others that aren''t as important?

I''ve become somewhat dependent on the HCA, but it is easy to appreciate; if you haven''t discovered it yet, do check it out in the tutorial here.

Best of luck,

 

[Detox]

Thank you for all the prompt great responses.

The one thing I have going for me on this task, is that I know she will love what ever rock I give her. I can almost guarentee she won''t care about all of the ring stats, but I know she will try her best to pretend interested when I babble on about crown angles, pavillion depth flouresence etc. All she cares about is what it represents.

However.........I care. I work very hard for my money and like most want to get the best bang for my buck. Even if I were going to buy a lesser quality diamond I would do the research to make sure I didn''t pay $1000 when it could have been had for $650. I find this to be the most difficult purchase I have made because a lot of emotion comes along with the research.

Emotions and spending money is deadly combination. That is probably why the prices are so incredibly variable.

The responses were very informative. I am going to read some of the material provided and try to get an even better understanding.

I am still a little confused with the debate between AGS vs. GIA but it sounds like both a very reputable. Also, I want to make sure I have clear set of parameters in mind before shopping. So that I can start ruling out all diamonds with a table depth of greater than or less "x" etc.

If any Canadians happen top read this post, you experience with buying online from the US (or Canada) would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/12/2005 1:00:45 PM
Author:Detox


3. When looking into the more detailed paramenters after the 4C''s such as table, girdle, cutlet etc. In order to simplify, are there certain criteria I should zero in on and others that aren''t as important?

Although the information about table will be more readily available than pavilion angle, if you wanted to focus on one thing, I think that would be it. But, if you''re going to get that (pavilion angle info), the rest of the info will be available, too, so...you may as well populate the HCA, or try to bring some other, comprehensive, related analysis to the fore.

Continued best,

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Detox....

The one thing I have going for me on this task, is that I know she will love what ever rock I give her. I can almost guarentee she won''t care about all of the ring stats, but I know she will try her best to pretend interested when I babble on about crown angles, pavillion depth flouresence etc. All she cares about is what it represents.

I know how you feel... and have been there - seen her eyes glaze over while i babble on.

the good thing here is you can accquire for yourself a couple of little playthings and gadets to help you in your search - and will help you engage the GF in what your trying to do. As i said She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed didnt care about what went on her finger... just what it represented, but she enjoyed the journey and effort i put in to get it.

As i said gadets... get yourself an Ideal Scope (and maybe a set of tweezers and a loupe) that way you''ll be a little better armed when visiting a jewellers. when viewing stones - at least the round brilliants - if you can get hold of the proportions - ie the crown and pav plus depth and table, then you can use the holloway cut adivser to give you an idea of how well cut it is... (ie if it scores under 2)

You are coming along at a time of change in the grading of cut of a diamond. Where once cut grades of AGS was based around the tight proportions of a mathimation 70 years ago... now current thinking has prompted a change to widen the ideal range to a more diagonal oval rather than a square. (see the HCA chart where the old grade 0 was a box in the center new grades are based on a oval of the main red area)

But maybe a good place to start on a RB:

keep the depth below 63% - the deeper the diamond the less width you see - i prefer a depth less than 60.5-61% - others prefer 61-62% its personal preferance a depth of 59.5-60% is getting on for the best spread for weight (60.3-60.4% is where the HCA drops from EX to VG for spread)

for crown and pav angles well its an open ball park, where the HCA chart, brilliant scopes, Imagem et al all come in useful in helping decipher the numbers. Each are methods of interpreting, but not hair splitters.



also if looking to buy in the US and have it shipped to Canada, remember to factor in Import Tax into the equation - as that can have a large bearing on the price. (importing a 1/3rd ct £600 diamond into the UK added £150 to the price)

 

[zdrastvootya]

Hello,

A Torontonian here. With Birks, you''re paying a premium on the name. I don''t think you''ll get a bad diamond there, but you can get better and pay less. www.usacerted.com is worth checking out. The prices are competitive, and he has a North Toronto location (don''t let the name fool you) where you can actually see the diamonds. Others have suggested small independent jewellers across from the Eaton Centre (Dundas & Yonge st.) (Shipping diamonds into Canada, you''ll get hit with a Luxury tax (10%?). You can look at some of my posts to see my experiences.

Good luck!

Z.

 

[Detox]

Hmmm, You can actually view the USACerted Diamonds in Toronto (North York) before I buy. This would be ideal seeing as I live in North York.

One of the Torontonian experiences I read here was positive, but the part I didn''t like was thay a deposit had to be put down to have a rock brought to Canada to view and a condition that the rock had to be pruchased if the stone met the GIA cert (no backing out of you didn''t like it for any reason)

Did you find that USA Certed was the best option for you. Do you have anythoughs on Spence Diamonds? As I discussed this purhcase with some friends they seem now seem to know a "lday" who will come to my home and show me diamonds at a great price, I am weary of this though.

Boy am I confused. This is one purchase I wish I lived in the US for, seems there are tons of online reputable vendors.

 

[NoonersMom]

Detox, I thought I read somewhere where a fellow Canadian on this board purchased via the net and had it shipped to a mail boxes etc or something similiar in Buffalo. If it''s a doable drive on a Saturday or Sunday, it might be an option worth considering & researching. Maybe one of them will pipe in as I can''t remember who it was.

 

[Detox]

Yes I did read a post similar to that. The option is tempting and would result in considerable savings, the risk is of course crossing the border. If caught, (probably a small chance) the can fine and take away the ring which would be devastating. I actually no a case where a woman met a man in Italy, got engaged in Italy and decided she would move there to start their life together. Upon rentry to Canada customs asked her about the ring, she explained, and because she didn''t declare the ring the took it. Currently there are legal battles which I think she will win. But neverless scary.

It is an option nevertheless, probably one I am not willing to take though. The dollar is so strong right now that the excise tax doesn''t seem that big.