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puppy weaning ?

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snowflakeluvr

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
359
I put a deposit on an AKC black lab pup yesterday. He looked full and healthy. Litter of 7. The breeder said I could get puppy at 6 weeks. My sister, who owns 2 westhighland terriers, and who is also a huge dog lover/advocate and also is a KNOW-IT-ALL, told me that's much too soon. i am very upset now as my children are really excited about said puppy and him joining our family...please advise. Thank you. I know that dogs are people too :twirl: and want a healthy, thriving pet to join us...
 
Personally, I feel that more time with the mother is beneficial for the pup's social development and I even prefer breeders to wait until 12 weeks. Could you discuss with the breeder about maybe holding on to him until 8 weeks? I know there are breeders that sell puppies that young, and it doesn't necessarily mean he will be sickly, but the additional time with him mom and siblings will help him learn social skills that he can only learn from other dogs.
 
I'm a huge dog lover and a know-it-all and I would bet dollars to donuts that this is a backyard breeder. Any breeder who is willing to let the pups go at 6 weeks is not going to provide you with a healthy, thriving pet.

The second red-flag for me is that the breeder is touting that this is an AKC-registered litter, which seems to be the rally cry of BYBs and puppy mills. Dogs sold at pet stores are AKC registered.

If you do want a healthy, thriving pet, ask the breeder (or maybe you already know) if both the parents' hips and elbows have been cleared by the OFA (and what were their ratings?). Is either the sire or dam a cystinuria carrier? Were they both cleared by a cardiologist? How many times have the pups been to the cardiologist since they were born? At 6 weeks they should have been twice. Once at the very least.

If the breeder doesn't know any of these things, run. If she does, and you feel she is a reputable breeder, then ask to bring the pup home at 10 - 12 weeks.
 
I agree with NEL. Also, it can be a sign that the breeder is trying to save money by not having to give the next set of shots or deworming or whatever is next on the list. I don't mind taking a puppy at 8 weeks from a reputable breeder, but 6 weeks is way too soon!
 
This in NOT A REPUTABLE BREEDER.

Dogs need to stay with their mothers for AT LEAST 8 weeks for a whoooole big list of reasons. Please do not line the pockets of this person who is breeding dogs for money and no other reason.

As NewEnglandLady said:

"If you do want a healthy, thriving pet, ask the breeder (or maybe you already know) if both the parents' hips and elbows have been cleared by the OFA (and what were their ratings?). Is either the sire or dam a cystinuria carrier? Were they both cleared by a cardiologist? How many times have the pups been to the cardiologist since they were born? At 6 weeks they should have been twice. Once at the very least."

Labs have a TON of health problems - because of crappy breeders (possibly like the one you may be about to purchase from), do not be fooled by the "AKC" title - it does not mean anything. Getting clear answers to the questions above is how to know if your pup is going to be a purebred, healthy lab.
 
I agree with everything that has been said in this thread. 6 weeks is too early for a puppy to be taken from his mother.
 
Agree with the PP. Also in some states it is illegal to sell a dog that young. Another red flag that this not a good breeder is the fact that they are selling you a puppy that is already born. Reputable breeders have wait lists long before a liter is due.
 
Thank you for your replies-I apologize for my naivete on puppies. I talked to the gal and she said she would keep the puppy longer(I called a local vet and spoke to someone about all of this and did not realize that it was more about socialization than it was about weaning).
Do I sit my kids down and tell them that this probably isn't the best choice for us right now? I don't want to disappoint them, of course, but I do want to bring a healthy, thriving pet into our family. How do you label someone a "puppy mill"? How do I know if that is what this person is doing? Sorry, more dumb questions for you. I am trying to make a good decision.
I appreciate the input very much.
 
Another ? How do I find a reputable breeder for this breed of dog? Word of mouth? A local vet? Is the internet "safe" to search? Thanks....
 
If you want the best and healthiest black lab puppy possible, go to a local dog show and talk to the lab breeders there. These should be the most reputable breeders from around your area. You might have to go to the nearest larger city depending on where you live. You can ask many questions of them and see which breeder is a good fit for you. A great dog relationship starts with a great breeder relationship IMO. We still talk to all our dog breeders, even though one of the dogs is no longer alive. It's a lifelong relationship, or should be.

Like NEL said, reputable breeders will breed to eliminate as best as possible, all the genetic health problems common to your breed. You don't want a poorly bred dog who ends up with tons of health problems early on, or has a drastically reduced lifespan due to a disorder that could have been discovered through testing of the breeding stock and puppies. Yes, you might have to go on a waiting list, but breeders are happy to find great homes for their stock and will work with you. It may not be a long wait.

It's only responsible that I mention that you can also contact breed rescue groups and local shelters for lab puppies. It really depends on your lifestyle and your needs. I know retriever breed puppies are often available in shelters if you are up to it.

My dad always had black labs as hunting dogs when I was growing up. I helped train the last 2 myself, with their water work and general obedience. These dogs need lots of exercise and mind/body stimulation but they are generally nice calm dogs. You get out what you put in, as with any dog. Good luck.
 
Hi Snowflakeluvr,

It sounds like the breeder you are dealing with is breeding in her home. She is likely a what is commonly referred to as a backyard breeder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_breeder, so no, I would not call her a puppy mill, unless she is running a much larger operation than your initial posts imply. It sounds like she let you visit the puppy in her house? That is at least better than say her insisting on meeting you in a parking lot or only in her front yard.

I am afraid I do not have much advice on finding a reputable breeder, but in a recent thread, lots of PSers said they got their dogs from reputable breeders, so I suspect you'll have lots more advice ahead. I'm glad you asked the question though, because I have always been curious what others mean by "reputable breeder." I've seen friends buy from backyard breeders (wouldn't let them in the house, but bought the puppy anyway) and pet stores (she knew he was from a puppy mill, but didn't care.) I also know a guy whose wife traveled twice by plane to pick up their two dogs, from what I venture was actually a reputable breeder.

I do not know what an AKC certificate is, or why it is worthless. Maybe someone else can explain? I know a lot of people who have purchased their dogs from breeders and were completely satisfied because they had papers. "Having papers" to them means that they had a good breeder. Not sure where the papers come from? Not the AKC? And, I do not ask this to suggest that AKC papers are meaningful in any way. I just don't really know what they are, where they come from, and why so many people think it means they are buying a superior pet.

Finally, not sure where you live, but there are lab rescue groups throughout the country. I live in a small state, CT, and I have a friend who volunteers for our lab rescue group. They pull hundreds of dogs and many highly adoptable puppies from high kill shelters in the south. You may also have a lab rescue group in your area. You can check www.petfinder.com.

I wish I had advice re: what to tell your kids! How old are they?
 
I told my older kids(22,20,15) about the pup last night, telling them that getting a healthy dog that would be in our lives for a looong time is really important to me. My 22yr old is a pistol, can't explain how she tries to strongarm me :twisted: but I emphatically said that after learning more, I think we need to find a breeder who can at least ensure us a little of a pet with good health. I said it's MY decision and no one else's...
So, of course, after being up late and searching, I did find many "reputable" breeders in my state. I am looking for the "buzz" words(about eyes, hips, etc) that was recommended in earlier posts.
I hope to speak to some today and hopefully we will still have a new addition to our home sometime in the future..
Thank you all for your help with this.
ps One of my confusions, (I guess), is that my hubby grew up in farm country, not on a farm, but surrounded by them, many acres of land, and they always had big "mutts', which all lived long healthy lives. Don't people do that anymore? Just get a pup from a shelter and it's fine? Or get a pup from Farmer down the road and it is a good pet?
 
It sounds like you're on the right path by contacting another breeder. Don't forget to have them answer the questions I listed. Health clearances are very important. A good breeder will be very open with you about all of this information. A good breeder will ask you dozens of questions about your life and your home, what you are looking for in a dog, etc.. A good breeder will likely make you sign a contract stating that if you cannot keep the dog, the dog must come back to the breeder. A good breeder may ask you to have your dog OFA'ed at 2 years of age. Not all good breeders ask to do all of these things, but they are things you should expect.

I'm assuming there are local breed clubs near you. These are the types of clubs that host regional shows. So, for instance, I have newfoundlands, so there is a Newfoundland Club of America as well as a Newfoundland Club of New England. Both of these breed clubs pulbish lists of breeders who are required to meet that breed club's standards. If there is a local lab club, that would be a great place to get more information. Also, as Lyra mentioned, shows or other breed-sponsored events (like field trials) are a good place to get information--most handlers at local shows are owners and can give you a wealth of information about the breeder.

Also, you can most certainly go to your local shelter and adopt a dog in need. Whether you go through a breeder or the shelter is a completely personal decision. I'd personally much rather see you adopt from a shelter than to support a backyard breeder, but if you're set on a breeder then I'm glad you're looking for a reputable one.

Oh, and LV, an AKC-certified dog just means that it's listed with the AKC. Basically, it means the dog is purebred. In order for a dog to be AKC-registered its parents had to be registered. It's worthless because AKC-registered dogs come from backyard breeders and puppy mills all the time--it has nothing to do with the health of the dog or its parents.
 
Thank you, NEL, for clarifying about the AKC certificate. I really never knew what it meant. Sounds like all the AKC does is verify that both parents are also registered with them, but it would seem they have no way of actually verifying that the parents of the puppy were the AKC dogs listed on the certificate.

Snowflakeluvr, Oh, that's good about your kids. They are old enough to understand, even if the 22 yr old doesn't necessarily agree. Haha.

RE: Shelters, I thought you were set on going through a breeder, so I didn't really want to push adoption. I did post the www.petfinder.com link. It's a great resource. You can just put in your zip code and the type of pet you are looking for, and petfinder will provide you with a list of dogs with photos in your area. Not all shelters use Petfinder though. You may find that your town or nearby town shelters do not list on Petfinder, so you can just call or stop by animal control in your area to see who might be waiting for a home. It might be nice to include your kids if you do decide to go, then everyone can contribute to the decision (and hopefully agree!)
 
Labs make amazing companions and there are several reasons they always show up in the Top 10 Dog Breeds year after year. But this distinction also leaves the breed wide open for "back yard breeders" and puppy mills.

I don't want to turn this into a breeder/purebreed vs shelter dog thread at all but I think the idea of a lab rescue group is a great compromise. If the intention of the puppy is companionship and not showing, AKC papers aren't necessary, IMHO. Rescue groups still do get purebreds all the time if this is the goal.

I've had experiences both ways. Growing up I had a choclate lab named Max. He tipped the scale at 115 lbs and was AKC registered. But looking back, he definetly came from a BYB and was most likely inbreed (a litter of 10 pups and all were chocolate). He lived to 13 with all the typical lab ailments, but he had a mean streak a mile wide. He bit everyone in my family and we probaly should have put him down, but he was a member of the family, so we made the usual excuses for him.

Fast forward to around this time last year, Max had been gone 1.5 years. My mom and I decided it would be great to get my dad a puppy for Father's Day. We decided to go the shelter route because we had a great experience with my dog. We were sure we wanted something with lab and my mom wanted a black dog. Long story short, we feel in love with this little black guy with a white chest and these floppy ears. He's got all the good parts of the lab personality, loves the water (we live on the water and I get over to the beach at least twice a week) and so far doesn't have any health issues. We're not too sure what he's mixed with but he's a a mush ball (and no biting whatsoever) and only about 50 lbs.

And to answer the original question, 6 weeks is way to young to be away from the momma and siblings. Our lab mix was at the shelter at least a month before we got him (no mother), and even then he wasn't 12 weeks old. Now, at a year old, he's not all that well socialized even with going to puppy classes and all.
 
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