Proposing in 3 months...we need some help on the ring!

[clueless_guy35]

Hi all,

This forum came up over and over through my Google search for diamonds and now I have been lurking a while...reading other posts and trying to educate myself, but I have some questions that I thought to go ahead and ask. I read through some previous threads about selecting a cushion cut diamond, so I know now that "cut is King" as one user mentioned.

I know my fiance-to-be would like a cushion halo based on Harry Winston's micropave one (gosh, I've learned so much through this research, I didn't know what micropave or pave was a few weeks ago!).

My budget for the ring and setting was originally much higher (around $40k), but when I mentioned this to my fiance, she completely freaked out and wanted me to keep the budget below $20k ($16k being a more reasonable limit, because that is how much she says she would spend if she were proposing). To be honest, we both have high salaries and I could easily afford $40k without a payment plan, but I respect her wishes and think this may have to do with some of the guilt of her culture about nice things. Plus, I guess we can use the rest on the honeymoon!

Anyway, I would like to respect her wishes and stick with the $16k budget. I would go over for the setting (up to $20k, as I think we will), but she does not want to spend more than $14k on the diamond itself (we plan to potentially upgrade in the future).

So what I am looking for:

She is not a big diamond fiend, and I think she would mostly be excited by a huge rock. She's been following this forum as well and seems to think that she would rather sacrifice for a nice cut and size over color and clarity. I would like to find her a center cushion diamond around 2 carats with a nice cut for $14k. I see diamonds in this price range, on Brilliantly Engaged and elsewhere, so I was wondering...will this be possible?

Is 14k enough for a ~2 carat cushion? This would leave $6k for a setting.

Will a ~2 carat cushion with an Ada setting provide "good finger coverage" for a size 4/4.5 finger?

Would an H or I colored center stone look alright with BE's Ada setting or a similar hand-forged setting?

I plan to get images and ASETS later, this project is still 3 months out, but I am excited and want to know if this budget is possible. I really want to get her a huge stone...maybe it's silly, but it would make me proud too. In my line of work, my co-workers seem to get their fiances very large diamonds.

Thanks in advance for your help. Reading through your posts has been amazingly informative and stopped me from just walking into Tiffany's and laying down $40k for the first ring I saw! This little project is going to be fun for us...we are picking out the stone and ring together and need all the help we can get.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Cushions face up a little smaller than some other stones such as rounds due to having greater depth. So getting a huge one with a $14k budget is not very likely. I am not sure why you'd buy with the idea of later upgrading if you actually can afford the dream ring now.

Good Old Gold carries about the best cut cushion collection, and here are some examples (and they can call in additional stones from suppliers if these won't work):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/2-01ct-i-vvs1-signature-modern-cushion-diamond.html

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-75ct-i-vvs1-august-vintage-cushion-diamond.html

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-7ct-i-vs1-signature-modern-cushion-diamond.html

 

[clueless_guy35]

We are quite young (early 20s, which is young for Manhattanites like us to get married)...the upgrade would happen in the far future, and would probably be a ring outside a $40k budget.

Huge may have been the wrong word. I forget, what we consider huge is probably tiny to most people here. My mother, for instance, has a 2 carat authentic Harry Winston halo ring, and my fiance's words were "that's huge!". I think it is a round diamond, though, and I know we are specifically looking for a cushion. Anyway, that sort of ring might not be huge to most of you, but for us it is nice and we would love to try to "replicate" it.

What carat size would be more do-able?

Why are branded-cut* diamonds so much more expensive? Are they worth the extra cost? (seems easy to find cushions at around 2 carats for as little as 11-12k on some sites, but I assume then that these must have bad cuts?)

I don't think we are looking for VVS or even VS range specifically. An eye-clean SI1 would be ideal. We would rather optimize for size and cut.

**edit, to emphasize branded to mean a branded diamond cut, not a brand like Harry Winston, Tiffany's, etc.

 

[clueless_guy35]

diamondseeker2006:

Why are Good Old Gold's prices so much steeper than those on Brilliantly Engaged? There seem to be many cushions ~2.0 for under our budget. Sorry for the questions, we are picking a budget right now and really want to set it appropriately and have lots of questions. We sent an email form to BE, but no answer yet.

Thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am sorry if I gave the impression that 2 cts is not large. It certainly is! I just meant that since cushions often face up smaller than rounds, they aren't known for being one of the largest looking shapes.

The stones a vendor like GOG carries are named by them and some are even patented designs, but they are no where near the cost of luxury branded stones. There is greater cost in having a stone cut to ideal proportions. There is more waste as opposed to a stone that is cut to maximize weight. The cutting may cost more since precision is required. I think men maybe can relate to why a Porsche 918 Spyder might cost more than a Chevrolet Camaro...more money in the design and production, rarity, beauty, etc. But the big difference in diamonds is that you CAN get a Porsche level diamond from a non-luxury brand jeweler (like Good Old Gold versus HW or Tiffany, etc.) that is every bit as good and often BETTER cut than comparable luxury branded stones. Plus we have access to ring makers equal to those at HW, etc. Victor Canera certainly makes a pave halo as good as what you'd find at HW.

My recommendation is to contact Good Old Gold and ask what else they can source for you. But as you can see by what I posted above, you may need to go a little over $14k to get what you are after.

I see your latest question. Just a sec while I look at BE. But in general, their antique cushions are not cut to have ideal light return, but I will have to look at their modern cushions to see.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, the Mark T modern cushions are cut by one of GOG's cutters and those would be stones I would recommend. But I don't see any at 2 cts. and I don't think they'd run any less than GOG's cushions if they had comparable sizes. I also do not see any X-factor cushions over 2 cts. and some might be okay and some not depending on seeing ASET images. Their antique line cushions are not as well cut as GOG's AVC line in general, and all of those at 2 cts+ are over $20k anyway. I am not sure what you are seeing on their site that fits your parameters. GOG is more transparent on showing light performance with ASET images, etc. which is another reason I prefer them, personally.

 

[nyquestioner]

2 carats will be a very good size on size 4.5 finger. I am about a 4.75/5, and when I was at the Harry Winston shop in midtown a couple years ago, I tried on the cushion halo they had out which was 1.5 carats. I actually thought that was the perfect size, and I am used to seeing rings ~2 carats. Maybe your fiancee can go into HW in midtown and try on one of their rings to see what she thinks of the size? The salespeople are so nice there--it's not a horrible engagement ring factory like Tiffany. She might decide she wants to go a little smaller than 2 carats.
I think BE is a great choice for you for one-stop shopping--you can ask them to pull some cushions and go look and see what you like in person, which is more important than any specs/images/etc. I like their cushions a lot. They make really nice halo settings, both cast and hand-forged. They're not good about email; it's better to call.
Another option would be Leon Mege. He sometimes has nice cushions and makes a beautiful cushion halo. He only does handforged settings though so the setting price would be more than a cast ring. He's quite close to BE so you could arrange appointments back to back to compare.
I am confused about the eventual upgrade plan, though. Can you elaborate on that?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

There have been some serious issues with customer service and quality issues with Leon M rings with members here, so I would not recommend going that route. BE makes nice settings, but they are generally considered a step below Victor Canera and Steven Kirsch,who would be the top choice I would recommend in NYC. GOG often works with SK since GOG is on Long Island and SK in Manhattan. If you were able to get a Mark T modern cushion, I'd still go to SK if you want a pave halo and want it all done in NYC.

Here is a ring made earlier this year by GOG/SK for a member here:

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry, one more thing. Now is absolutely the time to shop for the diamond if you want to propose in three months. You need to allow 6-8 weeks for the custom ring to be made. You have major holidays coming up and vendors are busy. Plus many take a week off after the big rush. Even if they say 4 weeks to make the ring, you have to have a cushion of time just in case there is a delay. They can happen, trust me!

 

[clueless_guy35]

Thanks so much to both of you for your help!

diamondseeker2006:

It looked like BE had 4 categories of cushions to search from:
- Mark T
- Antique Brilliant
- X Factor
- non-branded cushions (lots more of these available...and many in the 2/2.01 range for lower prices.

There looked to be several non-branded cushions that were quite inexpensive for their size...but I am new to this, and even after reading lots of the posts on this forum, I still doubt I will know how to look for a good diamond on my own.

It may be that I just go ahead and go over budget since we can afford it...I'm sure she won't mind in the end if it is beautiful! I was mostly just curious...she seemed to think there were diamonds for far lower prices on BE that were the non-branded type. I wouldn't want to spend on a bad-performing diamond though.

As for cars, do I ever know what you mean! I adore cars (and it is one of the reasons why I really want to spend more on this...she is so frugal and I think it is her turn to get something showy!).

For the setting, I am already almost set on going with Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch, or Mark at BE for a hand-forged setting. We live in Manhattan, and they seem to be the top NYC designers mentioned here, so it would be convenient. Those I've seen on this forum look perfect to my untrained eyes (and prettier than my mom's overpriced HW ring...though I guess I'm just a guy, so what do I really know...)'

Curiously, Leon Mege's cushions on his site seem very reasonably priced, almost suspiciously so. I have not directly contacted Mege or Kirsch yet...I am planning the proposal after the fuss of the holidays intentionally (on a date unique to us), so I don't want to waste their time while we still have a ways to go. I'm sure they are busy with the holiday rush of engagements.

Anyway, would love your thoughts on the unbranded cushions on BE and Mege's. Thanks for your patience. I am really a beginner in all of this!

nyquestioner:

The eventually upgrade plan is for when we are "more established". I've read that it is sometimes important to women to have a ring that is appropriately sized/quality for their circle of friends, and I think it may cause some uncomfortable ruckus to have the sort of 4 carat ring that I would want for her in the future (plus I don't think I could afford that now). I'm learning so much about jewelry through this process, I plan to give more gifts in the future. It may not necessarily by an ering upgrade, but I would love to be able to spend more on other jewelry in the future. TBH, after seeing some of the crazy blingy stuff on here, I could see purchasing her a 4 carat ring later on in the future...not in our price range now, but we work hard and are blessed to have many opportunities from the financial situations we were born into. Right now, though, she has specifically asked to not go too far over 2 carats, which is why I really don't want to go over her requested budget. After reading other posts here, I think it might be a social thing, though the ways of women continue to baffle me. Too small? No good. Too big? No good. It's enough to stress any guy out!

Anyway, for now, I am just going to explore her ~$16-17k suggested budget. I think we have a lot of time (3 months) to change our minds should it prove to be too limiting.

Again, I am just amazed at how helpful everyone here is! Thanks!

 

[clueless_guy35]

Oh wow, glad you mentioned that about Mege. I will focus in on Kirsch and BE instead. BTW, that ring is absolutely amazing!

I thought it would be easiest to just go to one vendor for stone and diamond? If not, I will definitely look into it.

I didn't realize time was of the essence as much! Thanks for the heads up! I guess I will be making some calls tomorrow morning to set up some appointments.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ohhh, you were just looking at virtual listings of cushions that they don't even have in stock. That is sort of like hunting for the needle in the haystack. Truly, 90%+ of them would probably not be worth considering. Any vendor can call in virtual stones, but that is going to be extremely difficult without photos of the stones. There are far more bad cushions out there than good ones. You just cannot go by those prices at all because you have no idea if the stones are any good or not.

If I were you, I'd decide whether any in stock at GOG are possibilities and go look at them (plus they maybe could access a couple more for you to look at...make an appointment and give them your specs). Then if they do not have what you want, see what they can get in. You can also ask Mark if he has any Mark T cushions coming in soon.

I will say that I have personally seen and tried on the ring above as it belongs to a friend (m-2-b)! It is magnificent! My diamond is also from GOG..you can see it in my avatar pic! It is no big deal at all to buy the diamond and have it set by SK. MANY people here use him or Victor in LA.

You sound like a wonderful guy and I love your attitude about wanting to give her beautiful quality jewelry!

 

[nyquestioner]

I understand what you're saying re the upgrade and think it's quite wise--1.5 to 2 carats seems to be the sweet spot (not too big, not too small) in Manhattan for women in their 20s and 30s, and going larger can be seen as more of an "older" look.

Diamondseeker doesn't care for Leon and is quite partial to GOG and Steven Kirsch. Leon and Steven have both had their customer service issues (there is a thread on the front page right now by Tourmaline about a major issue with Steven), but I wouldn't worry for your project because they can both bang out a cushion halo in their sleep. Leon made my ring and he was super-accommodating.
BUT, before you choose either of them, go to BE and ask to compare an example of their handforged pave with their cast pave. Their cast pave is really excellent and some people don't feel they need to spend the extra money for handforged after seeing it.

Also, remember that most posters here who help out with diamond selection are used to dealing with helping with looking online and making decisions based on specs and ASETs. Living in Manhattan, your situation is different. If you can see the stones in person, that trumps everything, because after all, you look at the stone in person every day, not an ASET. Just make sure that you see enough different stones to develop a discerning eye.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The issue with SK was not a workmanship issue and I realize none of the vendors are perfect 100% of the time. It was an issue of the rubies not being as red as she wanted. He did search for more rubies and found some that she liked and remade the ring for her. Even though that was inconvenient, she did end up with what she ordered. I have had a solitaire ring by LM which was not as good as others I have seen since, and I replaced that setting eventually. Others here have had lost pave stones and bent shanks and one friend's head came loose from the shank. I don't recall quality issues like that with SK. There are some worse customer service issues that I won't go into. But I will say the last one involved a member here having to get a lawyer involved to get her own stone back. Maybe she will see the thread and post herself.

I have said multiple times in the thread that I would recommend Mark T's cushions cut by Yoram which are gorgeous if he has any coming in. Aside from those, I think GOG has a better selection of well cut cushions in house. Those are the two best cushion vendors, in my opinion. Victor Canera is my first choice pave ring maker hands down (he sells some nice diamonds, also). He is a great person as well as making outstanding quality jewelry. But since he is in LA and the OP is in NYC, that is why I am recommending SK. SK has not made a piece for me but I have seen his work recently.

(nyquestioner, your ring is gorgeous. LM has made some beautiful things but after so many problems, I cannot in good conscience recommend him any longer.)

 

[LLJsmom]

I am so sorry to throw this in the mix. I know you said you would go with a NY forger, which is great. I'm in northern CA and went with Victor Canera who is in southern CA. I can say without a doubt that you would not have customer service issues with him. He is super responsive, even when you haven't committed to going with him. But the easiest thing in the world is to just call the number, and he has answered more than half the times I have called him. I started talking to him 2 years ago, and finally after 2 missteps with other settings I bit the bullet and went with him.

All you have to do is call him, tell him what you want, stone, style of setting, and just get into a conversation with him. See if you guys have rapport and connect. It will make the process so easy, stone and setting. He's humble, professional and a great listener.

With such a great attitude, you are going to come out with an amazing ring regardless of who you go with. I'm just sharing an experience, and saying that distance would not necessarily make a process more difficult.

Btw, he said he would need 3-4 weeks. He finished in 2.5.

Good luck and I can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[clueless_guy35]

Wow, such fantastic information. I'm probably going to stick with a NY designer, just because it would be much more convenient for us to go in person...we live so close to Kirsch's and Mege's B&Ms (it looks like they are in fact in the same building?).

I will definitely give GOG a call as well, so many people seem to have such great experiences with them. Wow, so many reasons to love being in the city...I didn't know we had so many choice regarding diamonds and setting designers!

Good point to go in the Harry Winston in person to get a feel for size, we were a bit nervous to, to be honest after a bad experience in another store. We originally started our search at Tiffany's (without knowing all that we know now about the brand) and received horrendous customer service. Too bad for them...if we hadn't received such a bad feeling from the people behind the counters there, I probably would have just shelled out the $40k to get a premade ring not knowing that I can get better quality elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks again! I will keep you posted. It is such an exciting time!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It is a very exciting time! I hope you will come back and update us! Just FYI, the ring makers (like SK and LM) don't have a B&M exactly. They have an office/workshop usually. I have had my few handforged pieces done without ever going to the office and just sent my stones to the ring maker (although I did visit LM on a later trip to NYC). But you certainly can hand carry your stone and meet the ring maker if you wish. You just have to have an appointment, obviously.