Princess with Round Table?

[mark44]

What do you guys think of princess cut stones that have a round table? There are a few of these from Superbcert (http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/171.html). Most princess cuts I''ve seen have more square tables. What do you guys think?

Mark

 

[karenleah15]

All the princess cuts I have seen have had square tables.

 

[mark44]

Do you like the look of a princess with round table? Looks a bit strange to me, but maybe I''m just not used to seeing it. The big question is ... would my girlfriend like it!

 

[belle]

that looks weird to me....like it''s a princess that so wishes it were a round.

it just doesn''t seem right.

 

[DiamondExpert]

It''s just a Princess with a small table...nothing wrong at all. In the photo the focus is at the level of the table, and this may be throwing your eye off.

Personally, I like Princess cuts with small tables and crowns >10% deep...lots of dispersion...

 

[Chiefrocka]

Mark,

I fought this question for a little while also. I''ve had the opportunity to see numerous stones from different vendors and brands along with my girlfriend in person. Every stone I''ve seen with the exception of the Signature superbcert princess diamond, have had a square, traditional table. Although, regardless of diamond specs, the superbcert stones looked or performed as others say substantially better. My girlfriend knew nothing about what I had noticed (square vs. roundish table). Although, every stone she saw in person she compared to the superbcert in terms of overall sparkle and always mentioned how "white" these stones looked in comparison with others of equal color grade (We shopped only in D-F range). I thought the same also, but I wanted her to like the stone she would be getting as opposed to me guessing, which I''m not good at. When comparing superbcert stones with each other you could only notice differences in color when not face up (which is how it would be set), so a G color when mounted would appear as colorless as an F, this could yield a better rated color stone at a cheaper price (if that makes sense). And again, they all seemed to have something other stones I saw did not......and I''ve seen in person and compared alot out there.

Again this is from my personal perspective, have you had the opportunity to see a superbcert princess in person?

Have you considered bringing your girlfriend along to look? She may love or hate the look.

I also think Barry offers traditional princess stones. You may want to check those out too.

 

[mark44]

Hi Chiefrocka,

Thanks for the reply. So I assume you ended up getting a Superbcert princess? I live in Canada, don''t have the opportunity to see it in person (that I know of anyways), so I''d have to go on a trusted vendor''s opinion. I suspect that my girlfriend wouldn''t care round vs. square table, she would just notice the sparkle-factor. I want to keep it a semi-surprise too.

I''ve been talking to Barry at Superbcert, seems very helpful. I may end up with one ...

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Chiefrocka]

Mark,

My girlfriend follows this and another diamond forum...so for now I''ll refrain from answering your question directly (AKA haven’t popped the question yet). Although, I am a put your money where your mouth is type of person.

To me the round table feature or modification to a princess cut may provide a better diamond in terms of appearance overall. How many people will actually be able to look so closely at your diamond and be able to tell if it has a roundish table??? Or will they say…. WOW that diamond is gorgeous!!! This statement is just from what I’ve evaluated for my purchase. Other brands and vendors may offer something to your and your girlfriends liking. Barry offers plenty of reports (b-scope) and explanations of why he has his product cut to a certain spec. For me the “performance” information he provided correlates into what I consider a great looking diamond.

Both my girl friend and I look at major purchases such as a diamond differently then say other consumers. We both like the fact that she’ll end up having a unique diamond that isn’t cut or doesn’t look like everyone else’s stone. As a guy I think it’s great that my girlfriend will have a diamond that other people will notice and ask, “I’ve never seen a diamond sparkle like that!” or “Where did he find something so beautiful?” With that said, I don’t buy items just to be different, or if no one makes those comments I would be extremely pleased with the stone, and in this instance we have to like the product.

Since you and Barry have had discussions, maybe you could arrange seeing the diamond in person, at say an appraiser in your area??? If you have to purchase the stone, as long as there is a money-back guarantee and you have insurance on it, maybe that would work for you.

To me buying a diamond is more like a mutual agreement, you could never get this at a mall store and rarely at a brick and mortar you do not have a relationship with. These online vendors live in “glass houses” they have to be honest and have professional courtesy to sell a stone, if one person is treated wrong, everyone hears about it. And since there is so much personal subjective decision making involved it has to work for you, the consumer as well.

Hope this helps you out!!!

Mike

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 7/29/2005 9:02:05 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
It''s just a Princess with a small table...nothing wrong at all. In the photo the focus is at the level of the table, and this may be throwing your eye off.

Personally, I like Princess cuts with small tables and crowns >10% deep...lots of dispersion...

Correct, Gary, but not completely.

Not all small tables have a roundish table. But if you go for a smaller table, while you aim at maintaining weight in the crown area, then you will end up with a more roundish table.

It definitely is not a tell-tale sign of superior light performance. The basis of light performance comes from the pavilion area, not from the crown area.

With the majority of princess-cuts having lousy pavilion proportions, it is not difficult to do the pavilion right, while still going for hidden weight in the crown area.

Live long,

 

[DiamondExpert]

Paul: Are you saying that this IS a cutting modification from the normal Princess faceting pattern? Seems to me that it is just that the cutter has made the sides of the table equivalent in length - regardless of the motive, which presumably to save weight as you say.

Also, it seems that the amount of dispersion is a function of both the angle of reflected light and the length of the light path in the diamond, so that a diamond with a higher crown (greater pathlength) and smaller table (larger crown facet area) will likely have more dispersion than a shallow crowned, larger tabled stone - assuming the pavilion is cut properly. Isn''t this true?

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 7/30/2005 3:38:43 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Paul: Are you saying that this IS a cutting modification from the normal Princess faceting pattern? Seems to me that it is just that the cutter has made the sides of the table equivalent in length - regardless of the motive, which presumably to save weight as you say.

Correct.

Date: 7/30/2005 3:38:43 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Also, it seems that the amount of dispersion is a function of both the angle of reflected light and the length of the light path in the diamond, so that a diamond with a higher crown (greater pathlength) and smaller table (larger crown facet area) will likely have more dispersion than a shallow crowned, larger tabled stone - assuming the pavilion is cut properly. Isn''t this true?

You have to remember that a princess-cut is not a round brilliant.

In a round, you get a very good dispersion with an angle around 34°, and the smaller the table, the longer the crown facet, indeed, thus even more dispersion.

In a princess-cut, there are two crown angles, and again, you get a very good dispersion around 34°, with preferably little difference between C1 and C2. One can maximize weight by holding C1 as high as 46°, and then reducing C2 dramatically. This will create the effect of a more roundish table.

The other effect is that C2 is way too low to contribute in dispersion.

Still, with the correct pavilion, such a princess-cut is still way better than the average princess-cut available, where both pavilion and crown are cut for weight only.

Live long,

 

[Melymel80]

Mark,

Thought I would chime in here. (I am Chief''s girlfreind) I figured a woman''s opinion might be needed here since she will be wearing the ring.

I must admit I never noticed the round table on SuperbCerts princess cuts until (Chief) mentioned it. I looked at the wealth of information Barry''s supplies on all his stones for hours upon hours. I NEVER noticed the table. The colors shot from his gorgeous stones was too distracting to notice anything else.

I have always loved Princess stones. To me they are different and still are very classic. I never liked the RB bc I thought they were all too common. I assume your To-be thinks the same way. To find a princess that performs well is a feat in itself.

When we started looking at stones some were beautiful and well frankly others were not. The princess cuts with square tables always looked like a piece of glass, or sometimes even worse, they looked like frozen spit. I found myself always comparing each new stone to Barry''s stones. I coulsnt even compare to a particular SuperbCert bc they were ALL beautiful.

We even saw a diamond that was a CUT specimen. It was crafted so well. AGS Triple Zero. But for me it didn''t speak to me. I like brilliance and sparkle not contrast.

I would definatly suggest seeing the diamond before you buy it. We did this and boy did it help! We would have eneded up with a diamond that wasn''t what we were looking for.

And with the princess diamonds make sure you stay within the "square ratio" Even when GIA grades a stone rectangular it actaully still looks like a square. There is a ratio cut off not sure off hand what it was. I have the link at home and will post later. These "rectangles" actaully look bigger than a true square when mounted.

All the best! I''m sure you will find something that will make her heart stop! Kudos to you for doing the research to find her something GREAT!

 

[Chiefrocka]

Paul,

You brought up weight retention regarding the stones being discussed. If this was the cutter or brands intention wouldn''t a larger table in regard to princess cuts yield a bigger looking diamond in general???

I''m a nut to learn something new, when I think of cutting a diamond. I look at information such as the ray-tracing Gary posted in another thread. If you choose to cut a princess shape and as an example sever a stone in half, wouldn''t that initial cut be your table??? If so at this point cutting away from this table would yield a smaller looking diamond in general, losing more of the rough. Just from a lay perspective it appears cutting diamonds in the manner superbcert does, would produce a cut that sacrifices carat weight as opposed to retaining it, if that’s the case then the benefit has to be in performance. I''ve read somewhere that the fire, sparkle, etc. of a diamond is a correlation between several of the diamonds proportions (crown angle, pavilion depth, table size???)

While the overall geometry of hiding carat weight that you''ve explained is understood, from what I''ve seen from these SC stones this cut makes for a very good looking stone, the performance data and what matters most, the bosses approval!!!....corroborates this.

 

[lulubboy]

What would you all consider good cut ranges for princess cut stones. I already looked at the ranges that AGS specifies but wanted to know from others.

table, depth, .....


THnaks.

 

[Melymel80]

Here is what we tried to follow:

Proportions for Princess-
Ideal Proportions Near Ideal Proportions
Total Depth 58.0 75.0% 56.0 - 82.0%
Table Diameter 57.0 78.0% 54.0 - 85.0%
Girdle Thickness thin to thick thin to thick
Culet Size N/A N/A
Crown Angles 30.0 37.5degrees 29.0 - 38.0degrees
Crown Height N/A N/A
Pavilion Depth N/A N/A
Symmetry excellent to very good excellent to good
Finish excellent to very good excellent to good


Here is another link:
It will give you an idea of what a "rectangular" diamond will look like by plugging in the measurments...
http://www.gemappraisers.com/shapePicker.asp

It will show you how when you mount what GIA would call a rectangle it still looks square and looks bigger when mounted...

 

[lulubboy]

THanks.. Had another question.


Why is it that some fo the diamonds on ebay that are appraised with a real certificate are SO HIGH...

yet they can sell them at such a low price????

THere was one that was like 2 carats worth around 50K on the apprasal

But the guy wanted to sell it for a buy it now around 12K.

 

[Melymel80]

Nothing in life is free. I am no expert but I''d be afraid to buy a diamond from Ebay. Unless I was an expert and knew what I was looking for.

The fact that appraisals are many time inflated and not truely what replacement cost would be.