Pricing a 7 ct. Trilliant

[TDAlmighty]

Long time reader -- and I need help on a crazy situation.

I have come across a trilliant cut diamond that I can buy secondhand from an older private owner that needs cash.

The diamond is old and does not have a proper diamond certification (GIA, etc). It is currently mounted in a yellow gold pendant setting.

It was appraised twenty years ago by a local reputable GIA appraiser who also listed these stats:

Shape and Cut: Trilliant-cut
Measurements: Approx. 14.16 X 14.48 X 14.59 X 7.47 mm
Weight: Approx 7.06ct
Depth: 49.7%
Table: 60%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Culet: Very Small
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Clarity Grade: VS/1
Color Grade: N
Fluorescence: Very Strong Blue
Inclusions: (On diagram) One small feather inclusion near peak in triangle in bottom half of diamond

I already used a cheap diamond tester on it and it passed. I could not see the inclusion that is listed on the appraisal with a loop, partly because it is so dirty but also the current mounting is rather cumbersome. Also, the diamond has a noticeable yellow tint to it when the diamond moves relative to your eye. Some of this might be due to the yellow gold setting.

I think my wife will love it, but just in case, how much would I get if she did not like it and I had to resell? How would I resell it?

 

[stci]

I really don''t know but a 7 ct pendant is way to big for me...

Curious to see a picture anyway!

 

[slg47]

yes, do you have a picture?

 

[TDAlmighty]

Here you go...

 

[stci]

Awwwww! I have to say this pendant is gorgeous!

Is your lady''s body shape is "petite" or more "generous"?

I think a "generous body shape" is more adequate to wear a pendant like this but it''s a matter of taste.

Your wife is lucky to have a men like you!

 

[jan can]

Beautiful. I'd love to to be the recipient.

 

[TDAlmighty]

My wife is rather petite, but is certainly into her bling. I think she would probably want to get it remounted into white gold, but I am not sure how that would work with the yellow tint.

Also, to me the diamond looks more like a 5ct when you look at it from the front--does it have more depth than trilliants normally do?

I just cannot find a reliable price point anywhere on the internet for this. A big purchase to make without having any idea of value and what I could resell it for...and HOW I would resell it if need be...

Any help???

 

[kenny]

Having it "appraised by a GIA appraiser" is not the same as having it graded by GIA.
Besides the only "appraisal" I'd trust when I'm buying a diamond is an appraisal I paid for from an appraiser I selected.

I'd tell the owner it must be removed form the setting and sent to GIA or AGS for a full grading report.
Such a report will make it easier to sell in the future.
Next find you own independent professional appraiser, who does not sell diamonds, and determine the prices it would go for new in a high end shop, new online, and used private party.

Only then, if everything checks out, would I'd make an offer.

If the seller does not cooperate I would not buy it because there is too much money at stake leave a shadow of a doubt about what I was buying.

 

[TDAlmighty]

Kenny--I agree completely with everything you say--and in the best case scenario I could do that. But how do I convince the seller (an old lady) to dismount it and send it away for grading in this situation prior to me committing to purchase it? She is fine with me bringing in my own appraisers, but she is not going to let it leave her sight without cash in hand.

I am also worried that the seller is going to start offering it to other people and she will take a low offer from somebody else and the opportunity will be gone.
And I think she may have brought it to some pawns already, but of course she is not sharing that information with me.

If I bring in an appraisser and they confirm the stats--what would you offer?

 

[kenny]

I would not buy it and let someone else take the risk.
But that's just one opinion from risk-averse person who does not have money to gamble with.
I will only buy something I'm sure about, especially when better be a 7-ct diamond.
If that means this one gets away from me, then so be it.

If you proceed I'd get the most competent appraiser you can fly in for the task and ask her/him what price is appropriate.

 

[TDAlmighty]

Probably good advice...but my instincts are telling me that this is a great opportunity. I have not followed my instincts in the past and regretted it later.

If you were not risk averse and these were truly the stats, what do you think it is worth?

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 5/16/2010 1:16:15 AM
Author: kenny
Having it ''appraised by a GIA appraiser'' is not the same as having it graded by GIA.

Besides the only ''appraisal'' I''d trust when I''m buying a diamond is an appraisal I paid for from an appraiser I selected.


I''d tell the owner it must be removed form the setting and sent to GIA or AGS for a full grading report.

Such a report will make it easier to sell in the future.

Next find you own independent professional appraiser, who does not sell diamonds, and determine the prices it would go for new in a high end shop, new online, and used private party.


Only then, if everything checks out, would I''d make an offer.


If the seller does not cooperate I would not buy it because there is too much money at stake leave a shadow of a doubt about what I was buying.

100% agree. Without a GIA or AGS report I wouldn''t give her one penny.

I wonder how much money she is expecting?

 

[Lorelei]

Hi TD

Unless you can afford to take such a huge gamble buying this stone without an appraisal and are prepared to take the consequences of the stone possibly not being what you thought it was then thats ok. I however would not take such a gamble. I look at it this way, if it is meant to be it will end up being yours, but do your due diligence in getting that appraisal before you commit. It is possible you might be able to get an appraiser to view the stone mounted, they will still be able to get a good amount of info about this stone.

appraiser tool

If you wanted to resell it, depending on what you paid for it you might have to take a substantial loss and it might not be easy to sell such a piece anyway due to the colour, shape and size.

Another thing to consider, this stone is going to be distinctly tinted, will your wife be ok with that?

 

[marcy]

I wouldn''t pay a dime until I had an appraiser look at it.

 

[kenny]

Date: 5/16/2010 2:30:37 AM
Author: TDAlmighty

If you were not risk averse and these were truly the stats, what do you think it is worth?

Logic alert.
If those were truly the stats there would be no risk.
That is the problem we all cannot get past.

But I'll bite anyway.
I don't like the shape.
I'm not buying something I do not like.
I would have it recut into a cut that looks good with low color, like the August Vintage Cushions from GOG.
I'd get an opinion from Jonathan there or one of the cut experts here about how much carat loss would result.

I'd use that to come up with what it is worth to me based on that. (I don't care what the owner thinks it's worth since she is uncooperative in establishing value)
GUG currently has an AVC that is 4.2 ct N VS2 for $28,741.
Based on that (since it is a used stone and that cuts the value in half in my mind) I'd offer $14,000. (Unless we learn it will have more than 3 ct weight loss)

 

[TDAlmighty]

Yeah--so I slept on it and woke up realizing that I needed to approach this more cautiously as you all suggest.

Because of the complicated logistics, I am thinking of skipping the local appraissal altogether and going straight for the certification.

What I am thinking of doing is telling her that if she gets it unmounted and certified by GIA, and it turns out to match the specs that her former appraiser listed it for, then I will buy it for X dollars. Or making some kind of table that shows my different offering prices depending on what the GIA cert says. Then it will be up to her to determine if my X dollars or my table makes it worth her while to get it certified.

The problem is--I just do not know how to build a table like that with different offering prices for different grades...

Do you all think this is a dumb idea?

 

[kenny]

Good idea.

How bout adding one more number to the table for the price you'd offer without sending it to GIA?
That number would be about one tenth of the price with a GIA report.

She has to come to understand that without a GIA or AGS report a 7-carat diamond's value (to a buyer) plummets drastically.
A couple changes in a color or clarity grade of a 7-carat can mean tens of thousands of dollars.
Lab reports make the buyer sure of what is for sale.

 

[TDAlmighty]

Kenny--I did not see your last post prior to reposting. Thank you for your thoughts and logical advice. How much does it cost to get something recut? Your $14k is around the price that I was thinking as well--actually I was thinking $17.5k. But I think I am going to insist on a certification now prior to doing anything, so the situation has changed a bit.

Just to clarify, it is not that she is being uncooperative, she just does not know me that well and I caught wind of this secondhand. So she is skeptical of me telling her what to do with this "treasure" of hers that she has had for at least 20 years.

I did not want to state this earlier because I wanted to get some untainted opinions, but the appraisal she has is from a local appraisar that has been recommended on pricescope before. He is a "GIA graduate gemologist" has been in business at least 20 years, and wrote her last insurance appraisal in 1990 for $60k. So take that for what it is worth. Any new thoughts?

 

[Lorelei]

Recutting a diamond isn't as straightforward as it might appear, not all diamonds are suitable candidates for a recut. You might be limited to the shape it could be recut to, there is the possibility of considerable weight loss, the colour and clarity grades changing ( for better or worse), the stone could break or shatter whilst being recut and it is usual that the owner of the stone has to take the loss if this happens as it is difficult to obtain insurance for this procedure.

The price to recut a stone very much depends, can run around a few to several hundred dollars. For advice from experts on this matter you could consult Brian Gavin at,

www.briangavindiamonds.com or Bill Bray at www.brayscore.com

Also we really cannot offer any real guidance on what the stone is worth or give you a comparison to due the lack of similar stones to compare with, its an unusual shape, colour and size, an appraiser will be the best person to help you there.

 

[kenny]

Date: 5/16/2010 1:18:07 PM
Author: TDAlmighty
I did not want to state this earlier because I wanted to get some untainted opinions, but the appraisal she has is from a local appraisar that has been recommended on pricescope before. He is a 'GIA graduate gemologist' has been in business at least 20 years, and wrote her last insurance appraisal in 1990 for $60k. So take that for what it is worth. Any new thoughts?

Please do a search here on appraisals.
They come in high for several "reasons".

If I were considering buying it that $60,000 is just one data point.
Frankly it may as well have be $60,000 ,000, all things considered and from a private party.
You need establish what it is worth to you.

What is her asking price?

 

[LGK]

FWIW, it looks waaaayyyy yellower than an N color to me. Could be the pic, could be the setting, but it could be that it is not an N. I own an N color and yeah, you can see yellow from the side, and off white/antique white from the top, but it doesn''t face up with an actual distinct yellow look.

I love second-hand diamond shopping; you can definitely find some really great bargains doing that. You can also lose a lot of money. Good luck!

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Just a thought - do you really, really love the diamond? Does it speak to you louder than any others? Do you love the way it looks and if it couldn''t be re-cut (or you don''t want to have it re-cut) would you be happy with it as it is? Does it make your heart sing? Because however it is appraised or graded, it''s going to cost you a fair bit of money.

I know these are all subjective, emotional questions, but I would answer them first if it was me. If the answer is no, not really, or maybe, then I wouldn''t go any further with appraisals. I''d take the money I could comfortably spend on this stone and look for another one that ticks all of your boxes, whatever they might be.

To quote another forum member - a deal is only a deal if you''re getting exactly what you want (Mrs Salvo). If this is exactly what you want, then go for it, get a GIA cert or agree an un-certed price. If not, let someone else have it, someone who will fall in love with it.

Jen

 

[LGK]

Date: 5/16/2010 3:54:57 PM
Author: Mrs Mitchell
Just a thought - do you really, really love the diamond? Does it speak to you louder than any others? Do you love the way it looks and if it couldn''t be re-cut (or you don''t want to have it re-cut) would you be happy with it as it is? Does it make your heart sing? Because however it is appraised or graded, it''s going to cost you a fair bit of money.

I know these are all subjective, emotional questions, but I would answer them first if it was me. If the answer is no, not really, or maybe, then I wouldn''t go any further with appraisals. I''d take the money I could comfortably spend on this stone and look for another one that ticks all of your boxes, whatever they might be.

To quote another forum member - a deal is only a deal if you''re getting exactly what you want (Mrs Salvo). If this is exactly what you want, then go for it, get a GIA cert or agree an un-certed price. If not, let someone else have it, someone who will fall in love with it.

Jen

Ha. I''d actually gone to edit that into my post but got distracted. It is a really, really good point though. Don''t do it if you don''t *love* the diamond, not just the possible great-deal aspect.

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 5/16/2010 12:55:43 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 5/16/2010 2:30:37 AMd on that. (I don''t care what the owner thinks it''s worth since she is uncooperative in establishing value)

GUG currently has an AVC that is 4.2 ct N VS2 for $28,741.

Wow, off to have a look!

 

[cutes814]

yeah danny, i looked at that stone a handful of times. it''s gorgeous!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Big ditto to everyone else telling you to be logical on this one. For the money I would rather have a really well cut stone than a huge hinkin one that may have less like and shows noticable yellow. But that is *me*. Maybe it is exactly what YOU want?