Price survey -- what do you think? Great, good, fair, or

[JustBrowsing]

Hello,

I''ve noticed people usually post a price they got and ask if it''s a good price... I thought i''d try something a bit different: I''d like to hear first hand what you think a good price is in your opinion, what a fair price is, and what is the price below which i''m getting totally ripped off.... I''ll post what I was quoted later! Let''s see who''s the closest.

Certificate attached.


The stone:
2.01 ct
G color
SI1 clarity
Cut grade: EXCELLENT
Polish: EXCELLENT
SYMMETRY: EXCELLENT
8.06 - 8.03 x 5.03
Fluorescence: None
Ideal cut hearts & arrows
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 53%

Curious to see what PS thinks!

 

[kenny]

I would not buy a diamond that EGL graded.
Their grades are, shall we say, generous.
With so much money at stake I want to be sure about what I am buying.

Send that same diamond to GIA or AGS and it will NOT come back G SI1.

With that in mind I wouldn't want to try to guess a price.

 

[yssie]

Date: 11/12/2009 9:21:07 PM
Author: kenny

Their grades are, shall we say, generous.

+1.

That may or may not matter to you, though - if that''s a generously graded EGL G SI1 and you''d be happy with a GIA H or I, SI2 or I1, then you may just have your stone.

Do YOU like the stone? Do YOU think it''s good value for the price quoted?

Post your jewellers quote, ask for opinions rather than trying to play guessing games, and you''ll get a lot more helpful replies.

 

[sonnyjane]

Date: 11/12/2009 9:53:04 PM
Author: yssie

Date: 11/12/2009 9:21:07 PM

Author: kenny



Their grades are, shall we say, generous.

+1.


That may or may not matter to you, though - if that''s a generously graded EGL G SI1 and you''d be happy with a GIA H or I, SI2 or I1, then you may just have your stone.


Do YOU like the stone? Do YOU think it''s good value for the price quoted?


Post your jewellers quote, ask for opinions rather than trying to play guessing games, and you''ll get a lot more helpful replies.

Agree to all of this, especially the latter. I know you''re just trying to "switch it up", but it''s much easier to tell you if you''ve paid (or been asked to pay) too much than venture a guess at what you were quoted.

 

[JustBrowsing]

I was quoted $12,500... I haven''t seen it yet. If I take it to an independent jeweler who says the grading is in fact accurate even by GIA standards, is it a good deal? If it''s one color lower and one clarity level lower, is it still a good deal? Should I pass altogether?

 

[JustBrowsing]

another q.

would you consider a H / VS2 GIA 60.5 depth and 59 table a much better stone, because it''s GIA? I mean, could that stone actually be something like a G / VS1 by EGL standards?

 

[kenny]

Don't get advice from another jeweler.
She/he sells diamonds and has a built in conflict of interest.

You could get it appraised by an independent appraiser, selected by and paid for by YOU.

Look up GIA stones that are two grades lower, (color = I and clarity = I1) and compare those prices to the EGL "G SI1".

Personally, I'd not waste the money.
I'd just buy a stone I could be sure of, graded by AGS or GIA.

Diamond sellers are not stupid.
They are not going to sell anything for much less than it's worth.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/12/2009 10:57:38 PM
Author: JustBrowsing
another q.


would you consider a H / VS2 GIA 60.5 depth and 59 table a much better stone, because it's GIA? I mean, could that stone actually be something like a G / VS1 by EGL standards?

Now you're getting the idea but it could be TWO grades off.
You need more than depth and table to evaluate how well cut a round diamond is.

Get
Depth %
Table %
Crown angle in degrees
Pavilion angle in degrees

Plug these four number into the Holloway Cut Adviser found at the top of this screen, under TOOLS (then click Cut Adviser).
If it scores higher than 2 reject it.
If it scores under 2 consider it, but then get Idealscope pics and ASET pics to further evaluate cut.

Cut is the most important C to diamond beauty, but the least understood.
When correctly used tools like the HCA, Idealscope and ASET will ensure you get a well cut stone.
Geniuses with a zillion years of experience and with the diamonds in front of them don't need these tools but we mortals do.

 

[Collee]

Sorry to hijack but I am amazed by your wisdom Kenny. You are ALWAYS so forthcoming, knowledgeable and beyond helpful. You truly are an amazing asset to the board.

 

[kenny]

Well thank you Collee.
How very kind of you to say so.

I get few very compliments because I usually have a very direct (harsh even) no-nonsense style - except when I'm being silly.

Almost every poster here is much much nicer than I.

 

[Collee]

You are plenty "nice". Although I do not view your posts as harsh, I do feel that bluntness is a blessing. I am not a sugar coating kind of gal. Keep up the good work.

 

[Rhino]

You can also see that the H&A image is for lack of a better word ... too perfect. It is a computer generated image and not based upon an actual scan, model or photograph under the appropriate viewer. The price tag is another very strong indicator that things aren't up to snuff. Nobody's giving anything away. If you're intent on spending money and learning *why* I suggest a good conservative appraiser like Neil Beatty or Rich Sherwood who can show you why this supposed G SI1 is priced the way it is. I think Kenny is hitting the nail on the proverbial head though.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/12/2009 10:54:10 PM
Author: JustBrowsing
I was quoted $12,500... I haven''t seen it yet. If I take it to an independent jeweler who says the grading is in fact accurate even by GIA standards, is it a good deal? If it''s one color lower and one clarity level lower, is it still a good deal? Should I pass altogether?

yes,but that ain''t gonna happen.

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:51:26 PM
Author: Rhino
You can also see that the H&A image is for lack of a better word ... too perfect. It is a computer generated image and not based upon an actual scan, model or photograph under the appropriate viewer.

Rhino... I know you have about ten billion times the experience of a 'rough rock' such as myself... but even though it's small, I think the hearts have a pretty good split in the cleft. IMO, this wouldn't come close to making, say, WF's ES.

I also think the arrows image has quite a bit more leakage than necessary right below the base of the arrowhead. If that's right below the table, I think you'd be able to pick up on that... and I don't know how good it would look (if at all).

Can anyone confirm? Or am I just

wrong?

ETA: If I had to hazard another guess, given the small number of inclusions plotted and their locations, and that their type is not specified, and given that EGL's grading is 'soft' ... there's no way this is an eye-clean diamond. Those inclusions almost have to be bad carbons/crystals for them to be that few of them and make EGL SI...

PS... please, forgive my extensive abuse of terminology if incorrect

 

[JustBrowsing]

Thanks everyone for your comments... One small thing, Rhino... When you say "The price tag is another very strong indicator that things aren''t up to snuff", does that mean that normally this should cost more, and something''s up? (not saying the dealer is a crook, but that it must be a few steps down as far as color and clarity)?

 

[Gleam]

Haven''t the experts concluded that generally, EGL stones are priced accurately according to what their specifications really would be if graded by the GIA? For example a GIA "J" stone that would be rated an "I" by EGL International still sells for the price of a "J" stone.

I haven''t read anyone on Pricescope actually getting *ripped off* by EGL International.

I bought a EGL USA stone. I compared it with GIA stones in order to get an idea of its actual color, and I''m happy with my diamond.

 

[stone-cold11]

yap, just do a price check for a 2c G SI1. Reliability graded H&A is going to be priced more than 22k. In this trade, you usually get what you paid for.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:51:26 PM
Author: Rhino
You can also see that the H&A image is for lack of a better word ... too perfect. It is a computer generated image and not based upon an actual scan, model or photograph under the appropriate viewer. The price tag is another very strong indicator that things aren''t up to snuff. Nobody''s giving anything away. If you''re intent on spending money and learning *why* I suggest a good conservative appraiser like Neil Beatty or Rich Sherwood who can show you why this supposed G SI1 is priced the way it is. I think Kenny is hitting the nail on the proverbial head though.

Ditto.

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 11/14/2009 6:32:03 AM
Author: Lorelei
Ditto.

gah... am I the only one that sees the split in the hearts? or am I just the only one who cares (for no reason)...?

 

[stone-cold11]

image is too small for that detail for me.

 

[Rhino]

Hi tony,

In answer to your questions...

Date: 11/13/2009 10:10:17 AM
Author: tonyc2387

Date: 11/12/2009 11:51:26 PM
Author: Rhino
You can also see that the H&A image is for lack of a better word ... too perfect. It is a computer generated image and not based upon an actual scan, model or photograph under the appropriate viewer.

Rhino... I know you have about ten billion times the experience of a ''rough rock'' such as myself... but even though it''s small, I think the hearts have a pretty good split in the cleft. IMO, this wouldn''t come close to making, say, WF''s ES.

I am not intimately familiar with WF''s ES but I don''t believe a diamond has to have any particular grading for optical symmetry to qualify in WF''s ES line. You''d have to clarify with them as I can only speak for what I personally represent.

Regarding the splits in the hearts image ... The image presented (the red and white one) I do not believe for a moment that that image is of the actual diamond but a boiler plate image. If you''re talking about the blue/white image from the OGI scan ... that too is not a genuine hearts image by which to judge the precision or lack of it in that diamond. It may or may not be an H&A diamond. The point being it is impossible to determine with the data provided.

I also think the arrows image has quite a bit more leakage than necessary right below the base of the arrowhead. If that''s right below the table, I think you''d be able to pick up on that... and I don''t know how good it would look (if at all).

Can anyone confirm? Or am I just

wrong?

LOL... just wrong.

Why? Because leakage can''t be detected in an H&A image. H&A imagery is good for only determining Optical Symmetry not detailed analysis of light performance.

ETA: If I had to hazard another guess, given the small number of inclusions plotted and their locations, and that their type is not specified, and given that EGL''s grading is ''soft'' ... there''s no way this is an eye-clean diamond. Those inclusions almost have to be bad carbons/crystals for them to be that few of them and make EGL SI...

PS... please, forgive my extensive abuse of terminology if incorrect

This may or may not be correct. It''s not uncommon however to run into EGL diamonds that are off by 3 or more grades in either clarity, color or both. At the price its being offered though my counsel would be proceed with caution.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 11/13/2009 6:30:33 PM
Author: JustBrowsing
Thanks everyone for your comments... One small thing, Rhino... When you say ''The price tag is another very strong indicator that things aren''t up to snuff'', does that mean that normally this should cost more, and something''s up? (not saying the dealer is a crook, but that it must be a few steps down as far as color and clarity)?

Yep.

 

[tonyc2387]

Hi rhino... Thanks a ton for your answers! Responses in line...

Date: 11/15/2009 7:26:55 PM
Author: Rhino
I am not intimately familiar with WF''s ES but I don''t believe a diamond has to have any particular grading for optical symmetry to qualify in WF''s ES line. You''d have to clarify with them as I can only speak for what I personally represent.

Sorry, I didn''t expect you to be... I''m also not very familiar with the way you differentiate your diamonds. IIRC, ES are the diamonds that ''just miss'' ACA, and I figured that ACA was heavily based on hearts... given that I thought it wasn''t a spectacular hearts image, I thought it would miss two levels of grading. But it doesn''t matter because...

Regarding the splits in the hearts image ... The image presented (the red and white one) I do not believe for a moment that that image is of the actual diamond but a boiler plate image. If you''re talking about the blue/white image from the OGI scan ... that too is not a genuine hearts image by which to judge the precision or lack of it in that diamond. It may or may not be an H&A diamond. The point being it is impossible to determine with the data provided.

Fair enough... I guess I probably should have known better, since other labs don''t grade H&A. My bad. Also, I haven''t encountered many OGI scans, so I don''t know how to interpret them at all.

LOL... just wrong.

Why? Because leakage can''t be detected in an H&A image. H&A imagery is good for only determining Optical Symmetry not detailed analysis of light performance.

Clearly, I have lots to learn...

Thanks for pointing that out, duly noted.

This may or may not be correct. It''s not uncommon however to run into EGL diamonds that are off by 3 or more grades in either clarity, color or both. At the price its being offered though my counsel would be proceed with caution.

At least I was just guessing this time

... though I find it highly interesting you think EGL can be 3+ grades off on a frequent basis. My general impression was "at least 1, probably 2, rarely 3+".

All great info... thanks again!!