Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Price of this rock...

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
D

davids

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
15
How much would you pay for this princess cut diamond?

.75 SI1 H -
LW ratio 1.06 4.74 X 5.03mm
crown angle 45.0 degrees
crown height 13.1% 0.62m
pavillion angle 43.1 degrees
pavillion depth 47.9% 2.27mm
culet 1.6% 0.08mm
table size 69% 3.28mm
total depth 79.3% 3.76mm
girdle thick 1.7% 0.08mm

how about this one?

.84 SI2 G
LW ratio 1.04 4.93 X 5.12mm
crown angle 44.3 degrees
crown height 9.9% 0.49mm
pavillion angle 44.6 degrees
pavillion depth 44% 2.17mm
culet 1.1% 0.05mm
table size 78% 3.83mm
total depth 80% 3.95mm
girdle thick 3.8% 0.19mm
 
Something is wrong with the pavilion depth in both examples. it is impossible for a princess to have this low pavilion depth with this pavilion angle.

Also, if the pavilion depth would be right, stone 1 would have a girdle thickness of 18% and stone 2 one of 24%. That is definitely impossible.

Please have these numbers checked.

Live long,
 
Ditto on what Paul said. Furthermore, both stones are very deep, and you''d basically be paying for some weight that can''t be seen.
1.gif
 
Thanks guys for your help. However, i called the jewlerer and he stands by what he said, he says that is what the computer generated and that it is considered ideal cut. What do i do???
 
davids

I am a consumer but have a look at Paul''s site on the link he posted. There has been some posts here also about his princess cut diamonds which are being cut to the new standards being proposed by GIA (I think). Everyone is in agreement that they are beautiful.
 
Date: 6/22/2005 9:04:02 AM
Author: davids

he says that is what the computer generated and that it is considered ideal cut
Click to expand...

There is probably more to the story: those should be measurements - otherwise, how would the poor computer generate numbers that fit a particular stone out of the blue ? weird... And aside the new AGS0 standard for princess cuts that involvs even more numbers, there is no ideal standard for princess cuts. This must be the shop's grade.

Those stones are deep allright and a bit smaller than the 5 - 5.5mm I would expect for the weight, but perhaps the price was adjusted to reflect this so it is up to you to judge if this offer is worth it or not.

Aside size, I can't tell much from the jumbled numbers.

Of the two you have listed, the first sounds a bit better - the very large table of the second might make the borders of the stone fragile (there is not much between the girdle and the table edge there - one blow gets both). However, the stones are not huge and unless set very high this would not be much of a problem.

For the same size (diameter) as those, how about this one ? I would not be surprised if the two you have posted have beed discounted a bit for the extra depth. Speaking of price, there are competing options for about 2k. Branded cuts, come for a bit more. Of course, Pricescope is not the only place to obtain such refference - there might be better elsewhere... who knows...

 
Thanks again for all the input.. I was really worried about this rock but if this is a new standard it calms me down a little!

How much approx would you pay for this stone? I know there are no professional appraisers here without seeing the actual stone but maybe you can give me a ballpark figure to let me know if i''m getting ripped off or not.

thanks
 
davids

If you look at the top of the page there is a link called Pricescope your diamonds where you can put your parameters in and see what other vendors are charging for the same size, clarity and carat weight stone. However remember cut is also one of the qualitys used there and therefore the cut of your stone may be falling a lot on that parameter as it is a deep stone and so carrys its weight on its depth and looks small for the carat weight rather than the face up size an ideal cut would get for the same carat weight. You can check the diameters of the different stones which are shown when you pull up some of the vendors diamonds to see how much you are losing from the face up size of the diamond.
 
pyramid, i wasn''t able to find a stone under pricescope with the same specs.. Am i doing something wrong?
 
I got two pages of stones, I put in Princess under shape and then 0.75 - 0.84 G SI1 and Search all.
 
Mine is an H color, it only lists G colors, is there any way i can estimate the difference?
 
Date: 6/22/2005 9:04:02 AM
Author: davids
Thanks guys for your help. However, i called the jewlerer and he stands by what he said, he says that is what the computer generated and that it is considered ideal cut. What do i do???
Click to expand...
I am sorry, but your jeweler is wrong. That pavilion depth can impossibly be correct, and if he stands by it, we need to question the correctness of the other measurements.

The only lab, which gives cut-grades on princess-cuts, is AGS, and they only started doing this on the 1st of May of this year. This could very well be an ideal-cut princess, but in that case, the stone should have the correct AGS-report. This is highly unlikely, if I look at the measurements, which could be correct.

Please re-check with your jeweler.

Live long,
 
Date: 6/22/2005 9:04:02 AM
Author: davids
Thanks guys for your help. However, i called the jewlerer and he stands by what he said, he says that is what the computer generated and that it is considered ideal cut. What do i do???
Click to expand...
I''m really curious what the jewelers computer is basing this on. As Paul points out, the only lab that has given a definition for ''ideal'' on princess cuts is AGS and they have yet to release their software about this. The dealers that have AGSL reports that indicate ideal cut are VERY proud of this fact and there is no way that they would forget to mention it. I can only assume that the computer record that is being referenced is some database of various attributes for this stone. Again as Paul points out, the information is clearly in error. Perhaps this is a typographical error in the database itself but it is definitely an error.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
When i asked the jewlerer for the cut he told me there is only one machine in the whole city that determines the cut and it is a 40,000$ machine. He said he went to that place and got the cut measured and this is what the computer printed, this afternoon i will go see the print out but i don''t understand how the depth could be wrong if it is computer generated? I am really confused right now
 
also, i am kind of new to this, i was wondering if i can get the diamond certified and then buy it? Or do i need to purchase it first and then bring it to the GIA certified person
 
If you can, please post a copy of that report for us. It''s probably just a typing error but quite a few of us have these machines and work with them on a daily basis. I''m confident we can figure out what is going on.

by the way, what city are you in?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
I am from Montreal, Canada. What is this machine called?
 
Date: 6/22/2005 11:42:59 AM
Author: davids
also, i am kind of new to this, i was wondering if i can get the diamond certified and then buy it? Or do i need to purchase it first and then bring it to the GIA certified person
Click to expand...
Are you saying that these diamonds do not have grading reports?
 
Check out the scan report and let me know what is wrong with the cut. Please also let me know how much would you pay for these two diamonds, i went to see them and they look all right to me. Please help!
 

Attachments

Those reports are from a Sarin product called a Brilliant Eye. I can only guess why it's so screwed up. A general observation on the 0.75 report: Total depth should equal crown height + pavil Depth + Girdle Thickness. There can be some variations in that 2nd decimal place for rounding and such but you're not even close. (0.62+2.27+0.08=3.76) I don't trust this report.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Also, is it customary to "borrow" the diamond in order to get it certified and then purchase it? And another question, this certifier i know is GIA certified but he gives out his own certificates with teh GIA emblem, is that good enough?

thanks again guys!~
 
Davids Do you mean to borrow the diamond to get it appraised. The certificate should come with the diamond from the jewellers if it has been graded by the GIA or any other lab. Also GIA and other labs do not certify anything although it is commonly known as a certificate they would call it a report.

About the cost to purchase your stones, I will leave that for the experts to answer, an appraiser should be able to tell you if the price you pay is market value or not and your appraisal will be for insurance purposes so could give you a different figure than market value.

Another thing to remember, although you may know this already, is that the prices quoted on the Pricescope search is minus any taxes which you need to pay or import charges. A jewellery store, spoken off on these boards as B&M (bricks and mortar) are usually higher priced also as some of the vendors here do not have to deal with the associated costs in running a store(lights, rent, staff, repairs, etc), although some of them do have their own jewellery stores - www.goodoldgold.com is one which springs to mind. Goodoldgold are based at Long Island, New York but even if you are not intending to purchase there or go there, have a look at their website and they provide a lot of education on the purchasing of diamonds as does the menu at the top of this forum under Knowledge etc.
 
It is common to allow you to buy a stone with a right to return it during some reasonable period in which you can go to a consultant of your choice to get information that may be helpful in your decision. You should have the right to return and collect a 100% refund for any reason during the agreed time frame. It is not unreasonable for the jeweler to want to collect some money from you before they let you walk out the door with their valuable stone but this should not be the end of the deal.

If the appraiser is representing himself as publishing GIA grading reports you should avoid him. Aside from the fact that this is illegal, it's evidence that he doesn't know what he's doing. GIA is a college that trains gemolgists, including me and most of the regulars here. Their graduates are permitted to refer to the fact that they took some classes or received a diploma there but their work is definitely not the same as the work product of GIA-GTL, which is a GIA owned laboratory that issues diamond grading reports. www.gia.edu has more detail on this but GIA gets pretty sensitive about this whole area because it's a problem for them.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
I''d like some more input on the report i''ve posted earlier. Would you suggest that his machine is defective or the guy is scamming? Does this rule apply to all princess cuts? : Total depth should equal crown height + pavil Depth + Girdle Thickness.
 

I have no clue where the error might have occurred but I would not assume it to be ‘scamming’. Crown+Pavilion+Girdle should always equal Total Depth with the possibility of slight variations caused by the averaging and rounding that are inherent in the way the equipment produces the numbers. Missing by 0.02mm would be a reasonable variation although it would annoy people. Even that is pretty unusual. The 0.84 misses by 1.10mm.. This is simply bad data and I would ignore it in it’s entirety.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 6/22/2005 3:08:06 PM
Author: davids
I''d like some more input on the report i''ve posted earlier. Would you suggest that his machine is defective or the guy is scamming? Does this rule apply to all princess cuts? : Total depth should equal crown height + pavil Depth + Girdle Thickness.
Click to expand...
It is impossible to say who is responsible for the error. With a bit of experience in judging measurements however, one should immediately see the error.

In order to spell it out completely, here is the maths:

First in percentages. Take crown height (13.1%), girdle thickness (1.7%) and pavilion depth (47.9%). In princess-cuts, the sum of these three should equal total depth (in rounds, there may be a difference). The sum of these three is 62.7%. The total depth indicated is 79.3%. That is a difference of 16.6%, which is not big, but huge to the third degree.

The same calculation in millimeters. Crown height (0.62 mm) plus girdle thickness (0.08 mm) plus pavilion depth (2.27 mm) should equal total depth. The sum of the three is 2.97 mm while total depth is indicated as 3.76 mm, a difference of 0.79 mm.

Any serious professional would look at these figures, and see that there is a mistake. If your jeweler maintains that this is correct, then I wonder what he is doing in this business. Take that, and the fact that the stone is not certified, then my question is: what is this person trying to sell you?

I am not saying that he is trying to scam you, but I do seriously wonder about his knowledge of diamonds.

Live long,
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top