Pre Marriage - When to have the detailed "Money Talk"

[bar01]

They say a leading cause of divorces is money issues. For special circumstances such as second marriages, kids, homes, or complicated financial pictures are involved I think it is even more important to have "the talk" before marriage.

So -----When would you have the painfully detailed “money review” – before- or after the proposal/engagement? I am not talking about discussing the basics - but the real details.

I know it has to be done before the marriage, but wonder if getting into the real nity gritty (sharing credit reports, checking/saving/retirement/mortgage statements, plans, etc..) should wait until a commitment or promise is made.

 

[wonka27]

I've been planting the "money" seed in my g/f since almost the time we started dating. We are constantly talking about money, budgets, etc. She has taken well to it, even to the extent where she has let me set up a budget for her and has stuck to it very well. Right now we are in the process of looking at homes, so I set up a "together" budget for us. She knows up front what it will take and seems very willing to endure a little pain in the pocketbook in the beginning.

My feeling is that I enjoy doing things and buying stuff, but you must be regimented about it. She wasn't regimented at all...and frankly, I can only imagine how much she was spending before she met me! I think if your tactful and equitable about it, a woman with a good head on her shoulders can buy into any money plan that is necessary. I'd certainly have the talk before the engagement, and maybe even see how she reacts to it for awhile before getting engaged. My g/f has done an admirable job with her budget...so I feel much safer when it comes to the money issue. She will now get her ring very soon

 

[Momoftwo]

I think the leading cause of divorce is not talking about anything before getting married. It really suprises me at how many people never discuss finances, children, responsibilities, etc. I've been married 23 years and we discussed who would pay the bills, etc before we got engaged. I think you should talk about money, especially credit problems before you get engaged. You don't have to share the account balances on your statements, but to tell you the truth if you trust each other enough to get married, you should trust each other enough to do this. To me it's kind of like a child finding out they're adopted, it's easier if they've just always known it, rather than dumping in all on them when they're older.

 

[Patty]

When to talk about money issues? After he's bought the ring, of course! No, no, no...I am just kidding. Of course you have to talk all along and have similar goals regarding money. When we got engaged back in the olden days, I told my (now) husband that I would not consider getting engaged until he had his credit cards paid off. (I HATE credit.) Then when he had $2000 in savings he said he could afford to pay $1000 for the ring but he'd gladly charge it if I wanted a more expensive ring. I chose a ring that cost $900. Do I regret not getting a larger diamond? You bet I do!

But really, it's important to live responsibly and not get in over your head. I know lots of people who live on credit and are probably just a paycheck or two away from homelessness. Scary stuff.




Wonka, I know you are joking just a bit with your talk of being regimented and a woman with a good head on her shoulders being able to buy into any money plan, but I can't help but think that your girlfriend has earned a biscuit, not a ring!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/16/2004 9:39:29 AM Patty wrote:







Wonka, I know you are joking just a bit with your talk of being regimented and a woman with a good head on her shoulders being able to buy into any money plan, but I can't help but think that your girlfriend has earned a biscuit, not a ring!

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I love ya, Wonka....you know I do.....but I got this exact same feeling too!

hehehehe

 

[hoorray]

Once you start talking about living together or getting married, it's time to start talking about the issues that are impacted -- money, family, long term goals, etc.

And Wonka -- you may be the more level headed money person in your relationship, but sometimes its the other way around. The thing is you have to come to a common understanding of where you are as a couple and where you are trying to go, and you shouldn't start that process after the wedding.

 

[Mara]

dunno if DH is the right place for this but we had our money talk during our engagement while setting up our wedding budget. we are both pretty independent with our money, and didn't want to relinquish 'control'..which seems like a big deal when people wait to get married..they have more of their own money and feel sensitive about control of it. so we started slowly with a budget for our wedding and how much we both put in compared to our expenses and income. then when we bought the house, we did another one. we made sure we both felt comfortable with them.




that was as far as we got in the beginning. but now that we are married...we definitely talk about 'our' goals more and long term, aka retirement...and while our money is still pretty much separate...we can see the walls between his and mine slowly coming down. we do have a joint account now as well as our own separates. so i think over time if you don't try to do too much at once (aka suddenly 'give me your paycheck' or vice versa), going slowly may work for most couples who are reticent about coupling finances too soon.




technically we are married now and own a house so sometimes the separate acounts seem funny, since we are both legally responsible for many of the bills. but it's all about what makes you feel comfortable......and how you can grow with that over time. plus this way he doesn't know when i buy the $300 purse (yet!)...hehee.




money is the #1 reason for divorce..finance issues or troubles. money to me is not the most important thing in a marriage, there are so many other issues in life that you have to work through, it blows me away how something like $$ would be the reason for a divorce.

 

[hoorray]

Mara -- we kept our finances seperate (except for the big stuff) for the first 15 years or so. It was nice because we had pretty much complete freedom on our optional spending and our investing. However, a couple of years ago, we finally decided to merge them, and it actually wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. It took getting used to giving each other space to still have some optional freedom, and we realized that we should have done it years before. We would have made much better decisions on the investing, saving, big purchases, etc, if we had. Now we kid each other about it, but we are really in much better control of all of our finances.

I'm not saying you should change now, but we wish we had merged earlier. We'd have made better decisions.

 

[goldengirl]

Lol....our money talk was short and sweet. It went like this:

"I don't have any."
"I don't have any, either."

Okay, seriously. Neither one of us have any savings as we are still slaving away on our debt...for the last six months or so things were so tight I almost had to put groceries on the credit card (!). We just moved in together, which helps both of us a lot (although that's not why we did it), and just six weeks later I can already feel the pressure ease on my wallet.

We have very similar money values, though. I have little doubt our money styles will mesh seamlessly when it's time.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/16/2004 11:14:00 AM lop wrote:

Once you start talking about living together or getting married, it's time to start talking about the issues that are impacted -- money, family, long term goals, etc.

And Wonka -- you may be the more level headed money person in your relationship, but sometimes its the other way around. The thing is you have to come to a common understanding of where you are as a couple and where you are trying to go, and you shouldn't start that process after the wedding.

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And sometimes you are both frugal! It's a wonder we have any material possessions. Thank goodness for my love of jewelry & our love of art! But then, it's all inventory in our eyes.

Couples really need to be on the same page *before* you get married about alot of things including finances. Both of us were big believers in not having dopey consumer debt.

I mentioned before that in our pre-counseling, the first question asked was "Who's going to handle the checkbook?" It's a loaded question that can go to issue of control. I can tell you one thing, I would *never* follow a budget made by my partner. Maybe if I soliticited such, but not if dictated.

Neither of us ever followed a budget. But, when we couldn't figure out where our money was going, we decided that each of us should write down every penny we spent & on what. In our case, the biggest culprit was lunches out. I can't tell you how much wasted money was saved when we started to take our lunches & watch what we spent if we went out. No more stops at the convience store for cokes either. I spent too much on clothes I never wore.

All of our money became joint after we married in a painless sort of way. But, we were young, first marriage, no children, etc. Trust funds remain in the person's name. I imagine it gets tricky the older one is w/ more "baggage" (for want of a better word - meaning assets, liablities, child support, etc.)

For what it's worth, I handle all the accounts. It's just simplier. I'm around more. I finally did have to put the accounts on a spread sheet for hubby a few years back when I was traveling so much. We do keep separate CD's & accounts in our own name simply for making sure we each have our own credit & immediate access if one of us dies suddenly. But, all the day to day stuff is joint.

Come to think about it, we have never had an argument about money. Even with the latest will & living trust thing, we sanely discussed it. Now, if we are talking in-laws (his), that's our arguments.

But, we did have a meeting of the minds *before* marriage on that issue w/ a knock down drag out fight.

And Mara, I thought you signed on to my Mantra = What's mine is mine *and* what's his is mine!"

 

[Mara]

Shhh F&I...I was giving the politically correct married answer.

He's bringing his old restored Power Wagon out here to the tune of a few thousand in transport fees, and a monthly rental of a warehouse for storing it...it's something he has been wanting for years since he came to CA and I'm glad he's doing it.




So I said the other night that after he did all of that...It would be MY turn for something I wanted. His response: I'd already had multiple turns and this was just 'evening out' the score. HAH! You can see I still have some 'work' to do.

Lop...In terms of merging finances, 15 years is a long time...I hope it will not take us that long.

We say that he is the CFO and I am the COO. Aka I decorate the house and he pays for it. But somehow we're still figuring that out. I end up decorating AND paying for it.

HEY!

 

[hoorray]

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On 10/16/2004 1:48:43 PM fire&ice wrote:





And Mara, I thought you signed on to my Mantra = What's mine is mine *and* what's his is mine!'

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That's my mantra also! And DH is so well trained that he recites it before I do when the moment arises

.

DH handles our bills and checkbook (although I still have my own.) When the decision of who would do it it came up, I told him I would be happy to, but he has to know that I don't "balance" the checkbook -- ever. That took me out of the running instantly. It works for both of us.....

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/16/2004 4:05:13 PM lop wrote:

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On 10/16/2004 1:48:43 PM fire&ice wrote:



And Mara, I thought you signed on to my Mantra = What's mine is mine *and* what's his is mine!'

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That's my mantra also! And DH is so well trained that he recites it before I do when the moment arises

.

p]
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Yes, that does come after years of perfecting the mantra!

 

[websailor]

Interesting!!! I'd say as soon as you both are serious about the relationship, you should have talks about all the big issues in life - money, kids, future plans, dreams, and hopes....

For me, this would be way before the proposal....after all, when I propose, as far as I'm concerned, I'm asking my partner (and I) to make a lifelong agreement.... I'm certainly not going to do that if there are any serious issues or doubts in my mind.

The sharing stuff I do believe can wait - it can be done so many ways (as the previous posts point out) that work for the two of you.

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Second marriages are also very interesting in this area! I can't say I'm any genius about it, but for cflutist and I, it was both easy and challenging. We both had certain "not to be ever considered joint" stuff, and we talked a lot about how to make finances work for each other.....and we are still working on making sure we are both okay (it's a continually discussion in any relationship I believe).

The interesting part about us is that we never could come up with "the solution" to our biggist potential issue, so we both went into our marriage saying that we knew this, and that we hoped we never ever get divorced (so we don't have to face it), and that if we do, we both hoped we'd treat each other "nicely". We both know that if we do, it will work out, and if we don't, the lawyers will be the ones buying several very nice large diamonds...

I think a lot of people will say this isn't the way two people who love each other would approach this, but as I said, second marriages are interesting - we both learned a lot from what happened in our respective divorces.

It does seem to be working for us, and I can tell you from all the comments we've heard from friends and co-workers, they think we're doing all right....

Final words - if you don't have very good deep serious issue discussions before marriage, then you're not ready to get married yet. If issues are insurmountable before marriage, they won't get any easier after getting married.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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I know it has to be done before the marriage, but wonder if getting into the real nity gritty (sharing credit reports, checking/saving/retirement/mortgage statements, plans, etc..) should wait until a commitment or promise is made.


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the worst thing any soon-to-be married couple can do is plan it all out before hand and expect the money plans to automatically go smoothly. i don't think the leading cause of divorce [money] is due to lack of preplanning, but the lack of continous planning. After marriage, things like schooling, job changes, house buying, car upgrading, kid making all impact your money situation and you cant assume you'll have these concepts all worked out and in stone and expect to live by them from day one without rediscussing details.

Being flexible to change is KEY to money/marriage happiness!

 

[Dancing Fire]

at least you girls don't have a wife that keep on nagging you about spending $20k of her money before we were marry.

 

[noobie]

It’s never too soon to share a common understanding of financial issues in a serious relationship.I would think if you are approaching engagement that you would have a good idea of each other’s situation and issues.

Money has never been an issue for us.When we met, we were both professionals with similar, although not entirely equal, income and earning potential.On the asset side, I had considerably more than my wife.However it was not an issue.We lived together for two years prior to marriage.During that time we shared credit cards and titles to autos.Eventually it was one joint account with both of our incomes deposited into it.

Ever since, all accounts and assets, except retirement and a few small investment accounts, are joint.I used to manage all of the finances and pay the bills. She used to joke that I could funnel away to a hidden accounts and she wouldn’t know it.Now, after kids, since she stays home, she pays the bills.I pay the credit card bills (out of the same account).

We have never had any problems with personal money or buying things.I don’t recall a disagreement over money.We trust each other with spending money and we talk about purchases.In fact we usually have to talk each other into buying things for ourselves.

This may not work for everyone, but it worked very well for us when we had very little money and works well now when we have just a little money.

I think trust, respect, transparency, a common understanding and selflessness are key to these things.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/16/2004 6:28:31 PM .

Being flexible to change is KEY to money/marriage happiness!
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Perhaps important to say - but this goes without saying. But, I do think that people can have some fundemental differences that they think - oh he will change his mind or mindset.

Heck, if you had asked either one of us if we would be childless at 45, we would have laughed at that one. It just happened that way. Life is what happens to you when you are busy making plans (thank you to John Lennon). But, fundementally you really have to be on the same page in the way you view life. And, you have to feel "safe".

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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On 10/17/2004 10:51:53 AM fire&ice wrote:

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On 10/16/2004 6:28:31 PM .

Being flexible to change is KEY to money/marriage happiness!
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Perhaps important to say - but this goes without saying. But, I do think that people can have some fundemental differences that they think - oh he will change his mind or mindset.

But, fundementally you really have to be on the same page in the way you view life. And, you have to feel 'safe'.
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Yes, I agree. You can't mold your husband into a man who finds spending endless amounts on clothes an okay investment. lol I guess what I'm saying is that when my husband and i got married he had planned to work in research using his physics degree. But these plans changed. Instead, he is a partner in a business with his family {and is progressing toward his own business} and makes A LOT more than a poor university research person while going for a MA and PhD would make, so now one of our concerns (unlike previously) is setting up our own retirement fund. This is an issue that couldn't be predicted yet now is extremely important. Circumstances change, but people less frequently do. So I guess you've just have to attempt to get as many financial aspects cleared up ahead of time and work on the rest as you go along.

Oh, and FWIW, I have an accounting degree and when my husband and i married, I handled ALL money matters. My husband was irresponsible with money and I was conservative, so I made sure we somewhat balanced our budget. . .BUT, in a rather surprising turn, I've toss the accounting books and blow money left and right while my husband focuses on the future. Sometimes people CAN change, but the likelihood isn't very great

 

[Hest88]

As early as possible. We had the money discussion before we moved in together, figured out all the logistics, and actually combined our finances soon afterward.

 

[Nicrez]

I agree with Hest. My fiance and I discussed finances BEFORE we moved in, while he and I discussed WHEN to get engaged.

I was very very open about our need to plan together (I was the stringent finance dictator and he was the "make so much, I can buy anything I want and not have a savings account" sort of guy. With a car LEASE of $880/month, a HUGE screen TV, every possible toy he ever wanted, I forced him to save up money, start savings accounts, and get a practical car financed for half of that.

I also needed someone to help me learn how to take care of complex financial processes, as he has put me in charge of his entire accounts, from the wedding budget (a joint account we BOTH contribute to), to ALL bills, including our 401Ks, and investment vehicles. We discuss all major expenses, and consult each other for any expenses over $100, even though we both have seperate checking and credit cards, as well as joint.

If you don't talk about money, THEN the problems come in. We talk about kids and all the other big topics, even if we don't always agree, we do listen, and somehow we find middle ground that makes us both happy...

I think once you consider a future with the person, it's high time to discuss finances that eventually impact that future together, ring or not.

 

[ame]

Before Engagement is my thought. We had it not long after the subject of marriage came up. We had another the other night with all the house stuff. Debating where our money should go.

 

[fancyrock]

I'd say.... lay all your cards on the table and "LET'S TALK" before an engagement. Walk in to a marriage with wide eyes open and build a solid fundation for your brilliant future and start with a honest discussion about every important issues you can think of.

 

[Diamond Angel]

i am in the same situation as noobie was in...we live together (gasp)

...so we have been able to work it out like roomates would. other big issues like kids and stuff seem to come up in good time...but for anyone who has not discussed money kids religion politics and also visitation of your parents (!!!) i would say better sooner than later.