Political polarization

[arkieb1]

I did it pretending I was an American solid liberal too. No surprises there. If they had anything more left I'd probably be that

 

[OreoRosies86]

Did anyone else get Disaffected Democrat?
14%

"This majority-minority group mostly identifies as Democratic or leans toward the Democratic Party. Disaffected Democrats strongly believe the economic system unfairly favors powerful interests and that business corporations make too much profit. Relatively few believe their family has achieved the American Dream, and 24% believe it is out of reach for their family. Most say the government should do more to help the needy and that poor people have hard lives because government benefits do not go far enough to help them live decently. In contrast to other Democratic-oriented groups, a majority (63%) characterizes government as “almost always wasteful and inefficient.”

 

[stracci2000]

I came in as a Solid Liberal, but I already knew that!

 

[monarch64]

Monnie, you posted in another thread that older people were more conservative. I took exception to that. This research that ksinger posted may provide some insight into why each of us held the position that we did. These are two descriptions of groups from the article.

“'Country first conservatives' ― who, at more than 7 in 10 of those older than 50, are the oldest of any group ― are less educated and deeply concerned that the U.S. risks losing its identity by being too open."

and

“'Solid liberals,' by far the largest and most politically active group on the left, are also the whitest, the wealthiest and the most highly educated."

The "conservative first conservatives" are, indeed, described as being -7 in 10 at least- older than 50. That is consistent with the research that another poster in the other thread quoted about the UK. (It said that people in the UK were more conservative when they were older.)

On the other hand, "solid liberals" are the most politically active group on the left. That would mean that one would be more likely to encounter them if one entered the political world. because activity would bring them to meetings,; marches; and, perhaps, to gatherings on websites where they post about politics. Perhaps they eat, sleep, and breathe politics!

The "solid liberals" are also the "whitest; wealthiest; and most highly educated". That might mean that those people, regardless of age, would not be sitting back and watching Fox news. They would be more likely be reading "The New York Times".

Perhaps some older voters fall into the country first conservative mold, but others are simply wealthier, better educated, and reading different material.

Ok, first of all, what I said was “maybe it’s an age thing.” I didn’t say “old people are conservatives.” But please, go on trouncing upon me with your stacks upon stacks of old volumes and throw on top of those a ton of citations from the internet your spidery old hands managed under the light of some candelabra!

 

[monarch64]

Ok, first of all, what I said was “maybe it’s an age thing.” I didn’t say “old people are conservatives.” But please, go on trouncing upon me with your stacks upon stacks of old volumes and throw on top of those a ton of citations from the internet your spidery old hands managed under the light of some candelabra!

And also? I don’t know why you’re coming after me on some mission to prove who knows what. I left you alone in the other thread and am not sure what I did to incite your ire in this one. But Deb? Back off. Thanks.

 

[AGBF]

Ok, first of all, what I said was “maybe it’s an age thing.” I didn’t say “old people are conservatives.” But please, go on trouncing upon me with your stacks upon stacks of old volumes and throw on top of those a ton of citations from the internet your spidery old hands managed under the light of some candelabra!

I actually wasn't trouncing. Maybe you should reread.

 

[AGBF]

And also? I don’t know why you’re coming after me on some mission to prove who knows what. I left you alone in the other thread and am not sure what I did to incite your ire in this one. But Deb? Back off. Thanks.

I never meant to come after you. I was never angry. I am sorry to learn that you are.

 

[ksinger]

All the responses are interesting. I was actually most interested in the level of polarization - the fact that people are generally retreating to their corners and digging in - not in giving everyone a test. But tests are fun.

The actual study by Pew is chock full of interesting stuff - 14 sections of it. I highly recommend perusing some of it if you skipped straight to the test instead.

Thank you MollyMalone for the link to the book. I don’t know if I have the attention span today to listen to the Haidt interview, but I could be tempted to buy the book. It sounds like it would sit well alongside “The Science of Good And Evil” by Schermer (read long ago and due for a refresh) and “The Third Chimpanzee” by Diamond (haven’t read this, although hubs has been bugging me for years to read it). So many books, so little time.

And finally, yes of course, I took the test too. And no surprise to me, I was solid liberal. I'll never understand the exact mechanisms of how that happened - I have some ideas (both sides of family are relative latecomers from The West and Yankeedom, not The South (designations from "American Nations"), tons of unrestricted reading, not forced to go to church, a few others) but still, it's Oklahoma and I grew up here. I'm definitely a cuckoo in an overwhelmingly core conservative/country first conservative nest.

 

[Arcadian]

Apparently even without answering all the questions, (which I didn't, they were too polarizing) I'm considered a new era enterpriser, whatever the hell that means.

 

[ksinger]

Apparently even without answering all the questions, (which I didn't, they were too polarizing) I'm considered a new era enterpriser, whatever the hell that means.

I'm genuinely curious what you mean by too polarizing...?

 

[redwood66]

Apparently even without answering all the questions, (which I didn't, they were too polarizing) I'm considered a new era enterpriser, whatever the hell that means.

I thought the same thing as well and could only answer them on the basis that one answer was nearer to my views than the other. There is no in between so it is meant to put those that are core and solid in those camps. No nuance to anything so people are divided up into the middle categories by the supposed views on the various subjects.

 

[partgypsy]

I'm an opportunity Democrat (12%).

 

[ksinger]

I thought the same thing as well and could only answer them on the basis that one answer was nearer to my views than the other. There is no in between so it is meant to put those that are core and solid in those camps. No nuance to anything so people are divided up into the middle categories by the supposed views on the various subjects.

Well, the online test is only 17 questions (whereas the survey was clearly much much more than that), clearly states before you take it that it could be hard (frustrating perhaps?) and that you're going to have to pick the one that is closest even if it isn't exactly "you", and finally, makes no claims for scientific accuracy or nuance, as if 17 questions about anything could make a claim to nuance, right? If you want nuance, there's 14 pages of it. Pew is not exactly lightweight when they do studies, after all.

What I suspect has been done, is that those are a version of 17 questions of the entire mess, that were answered in some repeating and fairly stable pattern by each group, and were put out as a shorthand way of giving people who don't mind slightly-less-than-totally-silly online tests, an idea of where they stand in the categories Pew used for the study. (There's probably actually some cool algorithms behind that little test. Yeah, occasionally I put my IT hat on and prance around a bit, then throw it back in the closet quickly) But more than that, I suspect they just hoped that a quickie test would hook in someone who wouldn't have otherwise read the study, and gotten them interested in reading some of it.

 

[redwood66]

Well, the online test is only 17 questions (whereas the survey was clearly much much more than that), clearly states before you take it that it could be hard (frustrating perhaps?) and that you're going to have to pick the one that is closest even if it isn't exactly "you", and finally, makes no claims for scientific accuracy or nuance, as if 17 questions about anything could make a claim to nuance, right? If you want nuance, there's 14 pages of it. Pew is not exactly lightweight when they do studies, after all.

What I suspect has been done, is that those are a version of 17 questions of the entire mess, that were answered in some repeating and fairly stable pattern by each group, and were put out as a shorthand way of giving people who don't mind slightly-less-than-totally-silly online tests, an idea of where they stand in the categories Pew used for the study. (There's probably actually some cool algorithms behind that little test. Yeah, occasionally I put my IT hat on and prance around a bit, then throw it back in the closet quickly) But more than that, I suspect they just hoped that a quickie test would hook in someone who wouldn't have otherwise read the study, and gotten them interested in reading some of it.

This is fair and I did not mean to cause you consternation. But I am sure that the full bevy of questions asked in the study might put me in a different category altogether though. Someone paying attention to the outcomes should be aware of this. I think my point is that some might be fine with where the little test puts them but others (like me) find it polarizing (no pun intended).

 

[ksinger]

This is fair and I did not mean to cause you consternation. But I am sure that the full bevy of questions asked in the study might put me in a different category altogether though. Someone paying attention to the outcomes should be aware of this.

No consternation at all. I just tend to wordiness. Merely pointing out that getting het up about the questions on an online test, and how they aren't probably all that accurate, is a bit silly, as are most online tests. In the immortal words of Super Chicken, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, (f)Red!"

I did give a cursory search of the survey for the actual questions, and if they're there, I missed them. They have a lot on Pew's methodology, but not the questions.

 

[redwood66]

No consternation at all. I just tend to wordiness. Merely pointing out that getting het up about the questions on an online test, and how they aren't probably all that accurate, is a bit silly, as are most online tests. In the immortal words of Super Chicken, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, (f)Red!"

I did give a cursory search of the survey for the actual questions, and if they're there, I missed them. They have a lot on Pew's methodology, but not the questions.

I am not het up either. Just noting differences in how people view it. I have issues with things that are purposely polarizing because in this climate none of that helps except to cement the polarization.

 

[Arcadian]

Question 4, 7, 12, and the 2nd part of 17 I didn't answer.

I'm not a democrat, I'm not a republican. I vote topic not party.
The racial questions are leading questions. As a black woman I feel both that blacks have come a long way, but, some of us shoot ourselves in the foot the questions are not so black and white, and in the end I didn't choose either because frankly, neither were wrong.

I'm not anti immigrant, but feel that we should tighten our borders more. There's a path to citizenship which should be followed. Lots of countries (including ally countries) are closing those loop holes.

And while I think we should assist other countries, we should put our people, our citizens, first.

The aim is to stick a person in a box. Be it a left leaning one or a right leaning one. The reality is, life is just not like that.

 

[Hayley87]

Well, the online test is only 17 questions (whereas the survey was clearly much much more than that), clearly states before you take it that it could be hard (frustrating perhaps?) and that you're going to have to pick the one that is closest even if it isn't exactly "you", and finally, makes no claims for scientific accuracy or nuance, as if 17 questions about anything could make a claim to nuance, right? If you want nuance, there's 14 pages of it. Pew is not exactly lightweight when they do studies, after all.

What I suspect has been done, is that those are a version of 17 questions of the entire mess, that were answered in some repeating and fairly stable pattern by each group, and were put out as a shorthand way of giving people who don't mind slightly-less-than-totally-silly online tests, an idea of where they stand in the categories Pew used for the study. (There's probably actually some cool algorithms behind that little test. Yeah, occasionally I put my IT hat on and prance around a bit, then throw it back in the closet quickly) But more than that, I suspect they just hoped that a quickie test would hook in someone who wouldn't have otherwise read the study, and gotten them interested in reading some of it.

Question 4, 7, 12, and the 2nd part of 17 I didn't answer.

I'm not a democrat, I'm not a republican. I vote topic not party.
The racial questions are leading questions. As a black woman I feel both that blacks have come a long way, but, some of us shoot ourselves in the foot the questions are not so black and white, and in the end I didn't choose either because frankly, neither were wrong.

I'm not anti immigrant, but feel that we should tighten our borders more. There's a path to citizenship which should be followed. Lots of countries (including ally countries) are closing those loop holes.

And while I think we should assist other countries, we should put our people, our citizens, first.

The aim is to stick a person in a box. Be it a left leaning one or a right leaning one. The reality is, life is just not like that.

You two have articulated what I was thinking after taking the test but before reading all he PS responses. The answer options are, in some cases, too superficial and/or polarized to offer meaningful information about the person taking the test; too much has to be filled in or assumed.

I also found it interesting that the results were (rather arbitrarily?) broken down into the two primary party camps even though there seem to be a few groups that would make a "Moderate" third option in the middle.

 

[E B]

Not really related but @MollyMalone I just read this on Twitter today re: Taibbi's book (appears to be an older one) and thought I should share it. He's claiming it's fiction/satire but from what I'm reading about people who know him (and interviews he's done about this time), I don't know. Warning: NSFW. Just linking due to that.

https://twitter.com/bjorn/status/919982399601233922

 

[AprilBaby]

Another market skeptical republican but way to the left of center.

 

[kenny]

I don't put much credence in these things.
I see them as more entertainment and click bait.

More than ever before, eyeballs are money.

 

[lovedogs]

Solid liberal, but I already knew that.

 

[HollyS]

I disagree with their choices on the quiz and the outcome based on the answers I was forced to choose between.

I am conservative only to the degree that more government - - especially the government we have -- is not a good thing.

I despise Trump and did not vote for him, so I really am not conservative in that respect.

I'm liberal in my opinion that your gender, religion, sexual orientation or immigrant status is none of my business.

I'm conservative when it comes to over-reaching knee-jerk reactions to tragedy, i.e. "Ban all guns!"

I'm liberal when it comes to taking care of people who need help here at home. But conservative when I consider how crappy the programs are that this country currently has in place, and how a lot of dollars are wasted in said programs.

I'm liberal when it comes to funding for the Arts and PBS, etc. And conservative when my tax dollars fund stupid poop like Common Core.

In other words, just try and pigeonhole me. I don't think along any party lines, and I refuse to be lumped into a demographic I don't really identify with (like this quiz and it's result).

 

[Arkteia]

Can one be a combo?

“Solid liberal” - “hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people.”

But also,

“Disaffected Democrats” - disenchanted with both the government and the economic system, and have little faith in their ability to make a civic impact