shape
carat
color
clarity

Political -- Did you feel safer when you woke up today?

Matata

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
9,731
As of yesterday, all "radical islamic terrorists" are barred entry to the US.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-syrian-refugees.html?ref=todayspaper
WASHINGTON — President Trump on Friday closed the nation’s borders to refugees from around the world, ordering that families fleeing the slaughter in Syria be indefinitely blocked from entering the United States, and temporarily suspending immigration from several predominantly Muslim countries.

In an executive order that he said was part of an extreme vetting plan to keep out “radical Islamic terrorists,” Mr. Trump also established a religious test for refugees from Muslim nations: He ordered that Christians and others from minority religions be granted priority over Muslims.

“We don’t want them here,” Mr. Trump said of Islamist terrorists during a signing ceremony at the Pentagon. “We want to ensure that we are not admitting into our country the very threats our soldiers are fighting overseas. We only want to admit those into our country who will support our country, and love deeply our people.”

Earlier in the day, Mr. Trump explained to an interviewer for the Christian Broadcasting Network that Christians in Syria were “horribly treated” and alleged that under previous administrations, “if you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible.”

“I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them,” the president said.

In fact, the United States accepts tens of thousands of Christian refugees. According to the Pew Research Center, almost as many Christian refugees (37,521) were admitted as Muslim refugees (38,901) in the 2016 fiscal year.

The executive order suspends the entry of refugees into the United States for 120 days and directs officials to determine additional screening ”to ensure that those approved for refugee admission do not pose a threat to the security and welfare of the United States.”

The order also stops the admission of refugees from Syria indefinitely, and bars entry into the United States for 90 days from seven predominantly Muslim countries linked to concerns about terrorism. Those countries are Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38783512
Rights groups have filed a lawsuit in a New York court to demand the release of refugees in transit who have been detained at John F Kennedy airport.
Entry to the US for nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries has been stopped for 90 days by Donald Trump.
The exact implications of his order remain unclear. The US State Department has told the BBC it is working on the immediate implementation of the ban.
People fleeing Syria are banned until further notice.
The two Iraqi refugees detained in New York, one of whom had worked as a US Army interpreter, were in transit when the executive order was signed on Friday.
The National Immigration Law Centre (NILC) told the BBC that it was suing President Trump and the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.
It described the two Iraqis as "courageous Haneed Khalid Darweesh, who interpreted for US army & Haider Sameer Alshawi also targeted for aiding US military".
The organisation had been unable to speak to the two men, it said.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is one of several other rights groups also involved in the lawsuit, filed in the Eastern District of New York on Saturday morning.
Lawyers are "keeping tabs on several flights" the NILC told the BBC, but did not have a full number of people who had been detained at US airports.
On Saturday several Iraqi passengers and a Yemeni national were prevented from boarding a flight at Cairo airport bound for New York, despite holding valid visas for the US.
Key points of refugee and travel suspension

Trump's 'extreme vetting' order sows panic
Google has urged travelling staff members who are nationals of the seven countries affect to return to the US as quickly as possible.
Friday's wide-ranging order includes the following measures:
The suspension of the entire US refugee admissions programme for 120 days
A ban on all refugees from Syria until "significant changes" are made
A 90-day suspension on anyone arriving from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen, except certain visa categories such as diplomats
Priority for future refugee applications from those persecuted for their religion - but only if the person is part of a minority religion in their home country
A cap of 50,000 refugees in 2017 - less than half of the upper limit under Mr Trump's predecessor, Barack Obama
Mr Trump signed the order on Friday, which was International Holocaust Remembrance Day.
The president's statement to mark that occasion, on the 72nd anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, made no mention of Jews or anti-Semitism.
In response to Mr Trump's order, the United Nations refugee agency said the needs of those fleeing conflict had never been greater.
The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) also says it will file a lawsuit.
Refugees from Syria's civil war will not be granted entry to the US
There have been reports of "green card" holders, who are legal permanent residents of the US, being prevented from getting on flights. However, green cards are not specifically mentioned in the executive order, and so the status of green card holders remains unclear.
CAIR advised non-US citizens, including permanent residents, from the seven countries to plan to delay all international travel for at least 90 days.
Mr Trump said the measures detailed in his executive order would "keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the US".
But rights groups say there is no link between Syrian refugees in the US and terrorism.
The sudden and severe immigration restrictions imposed on passport holders from seven Muslim countries could seriously demonstrate the law of unintended consequences. The president wants to restrict some Muslims but the effect could be to damage America's most important and profitable sector: technology.
Google has recalled around 100 of its affected staff from overseas. Microsoft has warned its shareholders that curbs on immigration could have a material impact on its business.
The technology sector relies heavily on highly skilled and well-paid workers from overseas on H1-B visas. If there's a risk, however small, that that brainpower could be restricted in some way or scare off others who may feel unwelcome, the big tech companies may have to rethink where they place their key staff in future.
Some Republicans have welcomed Mr Trump's announcement, including the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Paul Ryan, who said it was "time to re-evaluate and strengthen the visa vetting process".

The order also said all immigration programmes should include questions to "evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society."
Other measures include a broad review of the information required from all countries to approve a visa; a review of visa schemes between nations to ensure they are "truly reciprocal" for US citizens; and the immediate suspension of the Visa Interview Waiver Programme.
But the document says exceptions could be made on a case-by-case basis.
During the election campaign, Mr Trump suggested a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on".
 
And he signed this on International Holocaust Remembrance Day?

Classy touch.

And no, I don't feel safer, quite the opposite. But I was an atheist living in the Bible Belt for a few years so I'm pretty much a permanent eye roller when it comes to how hysterical people can be about the Mooooo-slims.
 
Cheeto von Tweeto's ban excludes countries where he has business ties. Excluded countries are in gold.


Excerpted from http://www.nydailynews.com/
Further, a declassified U.S. intelligence report known as the “28 pages” claims the Saudi government and its wealthy citizens actively funded Muslim radicalism through mosques and charities in the U.S. around the time of 9/11 attacks. The 19 hijackers were in close contact with Saudi nationals before carrying out the terror attack, which became the worst one in U.S. history.

Excerpted from Huff Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/no-terror-attacks-muslim-ban-7-countries-trump_us_588b5a1fe4b0230ce61b4b93
There have been zero fatal terror attacks on U.S. soil since 1975 by immigrants from the seven Muslim-majority countries President Donald Trump targeted with immigration bans on Friday, further highlighting the needlessness and cruelty of the president’s executive order.

Between 1975 and 2015, foreign nationals from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen killed exactly zero Americans on U.S. soil, according to an analysis of terror attacks by the Cato Institute.

Moreover, a report released this week shows that Muslim Americans with family backgrounds in those seven countries have killed no Americans over the last 15 years.

Twenty-three percent of the Muslim Americans involved with violent extremist plots since Sept. 11, 2001, had family backgrounds in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria or Yemen, according to a Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security report released this week. None of those plots resulted in American deaths.

Similarly, none of the 19 plane hijackers on 9/11 were from any of those seven countries.

“Contrary to alarmist political rhetoric, the appeal of revolutionary violence has remained very limited among Muslim-Americans,” Charles Kurzman, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of the Triangle Center report, said in a statement. “Let’s use this empirical evidence to guide our policy-making and public debates on violent extremism.”

trump_business_map.jpg
 
Off-topic, but ...

Matata said:
Cheeto von Tweeto

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You win the Internet today!
And proof that conservatives DO in fact have a sense of humor :wavey:


On this topic, while we are a nation of immigrants, I also believe that national security and safety of citizens is one of if not the most critical responsibilities of government, and ensuring those we do grant entry to are not wishing to do harm is reasonable, IMO, especially after seeing so many terrorist attacks in Europe following their admission of people who were from these countries.

Do I feel safer today? No. If I am on a road trip to the beach, I also don't feel the sand in my toes when just leaving my driveway.
 
Elliot86|1485623232|4121070 said:
And he signed this on International Holocaust Remembrance Day?

Classy touch.

And no, I don't feel safer, quite the opposite. But I was an atheist living in the Bible Belt for a few years so I'm pretty much a permanent eye roller when it comes to how hysterical people can be about the Mooooo-slims.

Yeah he's a classy guy. :knockout:

And No I don't feel safer. To the contrary. I feel more vulnerable in so many ways. :nono:
 
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

You're more likely to be killed by your own clothes than by an immigrant terrorist
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/13/12901950/terrorism-immigrants-clothes

I hope the convenient fact that no countries in which Trump does business were included in the ban bolsters CREW's case against him re: the emoluments clause.
 
SMH. That's all I can really say/do.
 
E B|1485625580|4121084 said:
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

You're more likely to be killed by your own clothes than by an immigrant terrorist
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/13/12901950/terrorism-immigrants-clothes

I hope the convenient fact that no countries in which Trump does business were included in the ban bolsters CREW's case against him re: the emoluments clause.
As do I. So, let's ponder a moment. US president has business interests in Saudi Arabia, who he blamed for 9/11, and who we know provides funding for terrorist cells. So he is supporting the funding of terrorists while padding his bank accounts. Isn't that aiding terrorism? He needs to be impeached.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html
 
SO here's where some of you might want to put me on the ignore list...but hear me out.

As an Independent this has been an area that I have not agreed with President Obama. I felt he did not do enough vetting of refugees or asylum seekers coming to this country. I always tell you guys I can't tell you who I work for. I still can't. but best believe I went through a very stringent multi month background check for clearance and I live here. I will let you make your own assumptions based on what I can say about that.

And here's where I don't agree with President Trump. He didn't ban the one country that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. Its it because of M-O-N-E-Y under the guise of they're an ally and his personal business interests? possibly.

Interestingly enough I did not see listed in any of the news stories...might have been an oversight on my part, but I need someone who can fact check that they're in or out.

If T was going to apply this at all, in the interest of fairness, it should have been to all countries that have terrorist ties. Also, the small point of allowing Christians from these countries a fast track.... :think: Again, it should be applied equally.

As much as I don't agree with the jagged edges of this policy, and I feel for the unfortunate people already properly vetted with the right documentation that also unfairly getting dragnetted into this whole thing, this particular policy should be reviewed.

But they must fix what they broke in their haste.

I can't wait to see how or IF they address HGT's...
 
Arcadian|1485626819|4121100 said:
SO here's where some of you might want to put me on the ignore list...but hear me out.

As an Independent this has been an area that I have not agreed with President Obama. I felt he did not do enough vetting of refugees or asylum seekers coming to this country. I always tell you guys I can't tell you who I work for. I still can't. but best believe I went through a very stringent multi month background check for clearance and I live here. I will let you make your own assumptions based on what I can say about that.

And here's where I don't agree with President Trump. He didn't ban the one country that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. Its it because of M-O-N-E-Y under the guise of they're an ally and his personal business interests? possibly.

Interestingly enough I did not see listed in any of the news stories...might have been an oversight on my part, but I need someone who can fact check that they're in or out.

If T was going to apply this at all, in the interest of fairness, it should have been to all countries that have terrorist ties. Also, the small point of allowing Christians from these countries a fast track.... :think: Again, it should be applied equally.

As much as I don't agree with the jagged edges of this policy, and I feel for the unfortunate people already properly vetted with the right documentation that also unfairly getting dragnetted into this whole thing, this particular policy should be reviewed.

But they must fix what they broke in their haste.

I can't wait to see how or IF they address HGT's...


First of all I would never put you on ignore Arcadian. And I am sure most everyone here feels the same way about you. I LOVE your posts and look forward to them!

And second of all (another independent here) I agree with what you wrote. I liked Obama for the most part but felt he didn't do enough in certain critical areas as you mentioned above.

And Trump is just one big hypocrite with his own interests at heart and no one else's. I am worried he will be (as Matata suggested above) impeached because then we would be left with Pence. :errrr: :errrr: :errrr:
 
Arcadian...I have no issue with your response and if I did, would not put you on ignore.

Missy I'm gobsmacked by the fact that Trump is seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. Educate me please. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that although Pense is ult right chastity belts for all women and make room for government in your womb kinda guy that he would work within the framework of government (unlike Trump) and engage Congress in his plans (unlike Trump) and thus be more controllable than Trump. I thought Pense would bend to public pressure easier than Trump if Pense's policies caused an uproar because he is more loyal to the traditional trappings and operation of government than he is to his own beliefs -- i.e. he would not risk his party's hold on power by attempting to implement certain ult right beliefs via policy.
 
Matata|1485628509|4121121 said:
Arcadian...I have no issue with your response and if I did, would not put you on ignore.

Missy I'm gobsmacked by the fact that Trump is seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. Educate me please. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that although Pense is ult right chastity belts for all women and make room for government in your womb kinda guy that he would work within the framework of government (unlike Trump) and engage Congress in his plans (unlike Trump) and thus be more controllable than Trump. I thought Pense would bend to public pressure easier than Trump if Pense's policies caused an uproar because he is more loyal to the traditional trappings and operation of government than he is to his own beliefs -- i.e. he would not risk his party's hold on power by attempting to implement certain ult right beliefs via policy.

I do not think he is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'm terrified of them both. :errrr: Sorry for the confusion.
 
Matata|1485628509|4121121 said:
Arcadian...I have no issue with your response and if I did, would not put you on ignore.

Missy I'm gobsmacked by the fact that Trump is seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. Educate me please. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that although Pense is ult right chastity belts for all women and make room for government in your womb kinda guy that he would work within the framework of government (unlike Trump) and engage Congress in his plans (unlike Trump) and thus be more controllable than Trump. I thought Pense would bend to public pressure easier than Trump if Pense's policies caused an uproar because he is more loyal to the traditional trappings and operation of government than he is to his own beliefs -- i.e. he would not risk his party's hold on power by attempting to implement certain ult right beliefs via policy.


Pence is his poison pill T for the most part, ignorant and narcissistic but more of a rhino IMO Pence is dead red. Up to the individual to decide which is worse, especially with a red C and S.

But its early days and T will cause issues down the line. P is a diehard ride and die. They love him because he's like them.
 
missy|1485628581|4121123 said:
Matata|1485628509|4121121 said:
Arcadian...I have no issue with your response and if I did, would not put you on ignore.

Missy I'm gobsmacked by the fact that Trump is seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. Educate me please. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that although Pense is ult right chastity belts for all women and make room for government in your womb kinda guy that he would work within the framework of government (unlike Trump) and engage Congress in his plans (unlike Trump) and thus be more controllable than Trump. I thought Pense would bend to public pressure easier than Trump if Pense's policies caused an uproar because he is more loyal to the traditional trappings and operation of government than he is to his own beliefs -- i.e. he would not risk his party's hold on power by attempting to implement certain ult right beliefs via policy.

I do not think he is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'm terrified of them both. :errrr: Sorry for the confusion.
I'm still interested in your opinion, if you care to share, regarding whether you think Pense would be easier to control and also why you fear him if he replaces Trump. I fear him too but I think I've been quite naive in my thoughts about what would happen if he replaces Trump.
 
IMO Pence is too closely aligned with the religious right and he just scares me. It seems perhaps Pence is actually more in control than we think.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/opinion/mike-pence-pulls-president-trumps-strings.html?_r=0

Just a snippet:
Mike Pence. This is the guy who, as a member of Congress, co-sponsored a bill that would allow hospitals to deny abortions to pregnant women who would die without the procedure

Pence, by the way, also voted against the Lilly Ledbetter act for equal pay for women. He once argued that having two working parents would lead to “stunted emotional growth” in children. In 2006, he said same-sex couples were a sign of “societal collapse.

The early Trump administration, however, looks as if it’s being run by somebody who can’t wait to jump into the abortion fray. Republicans in Congress are working away on defunding Planned Parenthood — an organization Trump once said he admired. And the Affordable Care Act, which guarantees women’s right to get birth control coverage in their health insurance, is of course target one.

But given the kind of guy Donald Trump is, I propose you also spread the word that the president has only gone on this anti-reproductive rights bender because he’s under Mike Pence’s thumb.

He is a scary man IMO. So is Trump but I feel Pence is as every bit (if not more but who's to say I truly don't know) dangerous.
 
No- definitely not.

Also, I have (conservative leaning) Christian family members who have for many years worked with refugees and done yearly overseas missions to work with refugees. The wait list average 2-10 years of vetting already to be allowed in the country. It's not like they just hop on a plane and come here, sign a form and bobs your uncle. I've seen the list of things they have to comply with to even have a chance. It's pages long....
 
E B|1485625580|4121084 said:
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise? :confused:

Arcadian said:
If T was going to apply this at all, in the interest of fairness, it should have been to all countries that have terrorist ties. Also, the small point of allowing Christians from these countries a fast track.... :think: Again, it should be applied equally.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.
 
Matata said:
missy|1485628581|4121123 said:
Matata|1485628509|4121121 said:
Arcadian...I have no issue with your response and if I did, would not put you on ignore.

Missy I'm gobsmacked by the fact that Trump is seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. Educate me please. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that although Pense is ult right chastity belts for all women and make room for government in your womb kinda guy that he would work within the framework of government (unlike Trump) and engage Congress in his plans (unlike Trump) and thus be more controllable than Trump. I thought Pense would bend to public pressure easier than Trump if Pense's policies caused an uproar because he is more loyal to the traditional trappings and operation of government than he is to his own beliefs -- i.e. he would not risk his party's hold on power by attempting to implement certain ult right beliefs via policy.

I do not think he is the lesser of the 2 evils. I'm terrified of them both. :errrr: Sorry for the confusion.
I'm still interested in your opinion, if you care to share, regarding whether you think Pense would be easier to control and also why you fear him if he replaces Trump. I fear him too but I think I've been quite naive in my thoughts about what would happen if he replaces Trump.


missy|1485629188|4121130 said:
IMO Pence is too closely aligned with the religious right and he just scares me. It seems perhaps Pence is actually more in control than we think.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/opinion/mike-pence-pulls-president-trumps-strings.html?_r=0

Just a snippet:
Mike Pence. This is the guy who, as a member of Congress, co-sponsored a bill that would allow hospitals to deny abortions to pregnant women who would die without the procedure

Pence, by the way, also voted against the Lilly Ledbetter act for equal pay for women. He once argued that having two working parents would lead to “stunted emotional growth” in children. In 2006, he said same-sex couples were a sign of “societal collapse.

The early Trump administration, however, looks as if it’s being run by somebody who can’t wait to jump into the abortion fray. Republicans in Congress are working away on defunding Planned Parenthood — an organization Trump once said he admired. And the Affordable Care Act, which guarantees women’s right to get birth control coverage in their health insurance, is of course target one.

But given the kind of guy Donald Trump is, I propose you also spread the word that the president has only gone on this anti-reproductive rights bender because he’s under Mike Pence’s thumb.

He is a scary man IMO. So is Trump but I feel Pence is as every bit (if not more but who's to say I truly don't know) dangerous.

Matata, just wanted to add that my gut is strongly sounding off alarm bells when it comes to Pence even more than with Trump. I always listen to my gut. I may be wrong and let's face it both Trump and Pence are terrible choices for President but my gut is more scared of Pence.
 
I know there have been previous responses, but mine is in reply to the first question.

No. I felt like I was going to vomit. This is making me feel physically ill. I'm so sickened at what he is doing. And of course no ban on Saudi Arabia, where we actually did get 9/11 terrorists from!! - because he has business dealings there.

He is literally breaking apart families, as there were people mid travel when this "began". There are now families separated - people who were already approved to be here but who had traveled home for whatever reason. And of course the refugees...

Does he care? Nope. Not giving it a thought. I'll add a pic of his most recent tweets so you can see. You have to start from the bottom up because, despite his YEARS on Twitter and TENS OFTHOUSANDS of tweets sent, he still hasn't figured out how to properly order his tweets (thread them).

I am horrified at what is happening. Honestly, I can hardly get out of bed today. He is destroying our country.

_1561.png
 
Arcadian - just wanted to add I definitely wouldn't block you, either, and honestly, I rarely if ever block anyone.


Now - thoughts on Pence: he is more dangerous in some ways, less in others. He would move more quickly to strip rights from women and LGBTQ. But one danger with Trump is that he could be manipulated into moving on these points, even though I don't believe he really cares much one way or the other.

The big danger with Trump is that he is so foolish, so ill prepared and so thin skinned that he could easily propel us into a war. Or deeply damage our economy. I don't think Pence is as likely to do those things, though.
 
No.

Making even more of the world hate us even more does not make me feel safer.
 
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trailguide-updates-unknown-number-of-u-s-permanent-1485627539-htmlstory.html

An undetermined number of longtime U.S. residents have been stranded overseas as a result of President Trump's executive order temporarily blocking visas from seven countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

All visa holders from those seven countries are now barred entry to the U.S., including lawful permanent residents, also known as green card holders, people with U.S. work visas and other types of visas, according to a senior U.S. immigration official. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

Some of the affected countries, such as Yemen and Libya, have relatively few nationals who are U.S. permanent residents or visa holders. But a large number of Iranians have permanent residency in the U.S., as do smaller numbers from some of the other countries on the list, which includes Iraq, Syria, Somalia and Sudan.

Trump's executive order, issued Friday, immediately affected longtime foreign residents of the U.S. who were overseas at the time the order was signed, as well as any high-skilled tech workers or other work-visa holders from those seven countries caught outside the U.S. as of Friday.

Lawyers at the Department of Homeland Security are examining Trump's executive order and drafting instructions for border officials, the official said.

Eventually, the administration may set up a way for some visa holders to apply for a waiver from the ban, but that is still being deliberated and will take time to set up, the official said.
 
JoCoJenn|1485629434|4121134 said:
Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise? :confused:

I don't mean warning about a muslim ban, I mean no warning about it taking place immediately. People are being detained at airports, people who've gone through the ALREADY exhaustive process (edit: what katharath said above). It's an absolute clusterf*ck. But, so is Trump, so I guess no one should be surprised by anything coming from his WH anymore.
 
I agree that Pence is scary and dangerous, but in a much more predictable way than Trump.

No, I didn't feel safe today. I felt sad. Terrified. For our country's future and that of the world. Trump is playing right into the terrorist's hands. This move will engender hate and resentment against the US.

I have a number of muslim friends who are on or have previously been on H1 visas who are eligible to apply for green cards or who have green cards in progress and I fear that the next step will be to cut off their pathway to legal residence here. Just talked to one who was supposed to go on a vacation in April and she is likely canceling. She also needs to travel home within the next few months to take care of something related to her pending marriage, but will likely not be able to. The ramifications of NOT being able to make that trip are that she could eventually not really have a place to call home.

All I have to say is that this is NOT the foundation of our country. And if this is the way the president thinks it should be, we should all hope on planes and boats and go back to our countries of origin, because we are ALL immigrants with the exception of the Native American population (and we see how Trump is treating them - Standing Rock).
 
kenny|1485630456|4121144 said:
No.

Making even more of the world hate us even more does not make me feel safer.

While I understand that many of the "Obama did it!" crowd may refuse to recognize this, we gained a lot of respect, worldwide, with him as our leader. All of that is now gone. I'm on Twitter and hear it from different people around the world, every single day. They cannot believe that our country is going against every value we have claimed to have.
 
JoCoJenn|1485629434|4121134 said:
E B|1485625580|4121084 said:
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise? :confused:
The surprise is not that he wanted to do it. The surprise is that the implementation began yesterday without notice. There were people flying here that had no clue they wouldn't be allowed in. A 1 or 2 day notice would have given people time to change/cancel their flight plans.
 
katharath|1485630115|4121139 said:
Now - thoughts on Pence: he is more dangerous in some ways, less in others. He would move more quickly to strip rights from women and LGBTQ. But one danger with Trump is that he could be manipulated into moving on these points, even though I don't believe he really cares much one way or the other.

The big danger with Trump is that he is so foolish, so ill prepared and so thin skinned that he could easily propel us into a war. Or deeply damage our economy. I don't think Pence is as likely to do those things, though.

I agree with this^ debating Trump vs. Pence. During the primaries, there was a glimmer of hope that he'd be moderate in some areas, but he won't be. He's surrounded himself with ultra-conservatives (and a neo-nazi!) and he's easily flattered into any position, so he'll be flattered into theirs.

He is, essentially, Pence, only deeply insecure with malignant narcissism and ADHD. He's much scarier to me now that we've "given him a chance."
 
Matata|1485630801|4121150 said:
JoCoJenn|1485629434|4121134 said:
E B|1485625580|4121084 said:
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise? :confused:
The surprise is not that he wanted to do it. The surprise is that the implementation began yesterday without notice. There were people flying here that had no clue they wouldn't be allowed in. A 1 or 2 day notice would have given people time to change/cancel their flight plans.

Agreed. What a huge **** up. Indicative of how he thinks about everything - which is to say, not at all. There is no evidence that he can reason deductively or understand complex potential outcomes.
 
E B|1485631013|4121152 said:
katharath|1485630115|4121139 said:
Now - thoughts on Pence: he is more dangerous in some ways, less in others. He would move more quickly to strip rights from women and LGBTQ. But one danger with Trump is that he could be manipulated into moving on these points, even though I don't believe he really cares much one way or the other.

The big danger with Trump is that he is so foolish, so ill prepared and so thin skinned that he could easily propel us into a war. Or deeply damage our economy. I don't think Pence is as likely to do those things, though.

I agree with this^ debating Trump vs. Pence. During the primaries, there was a glimmer of hope that he'd be moderate in some areas, but he won't be. He's surrounded himself with ultra-conservatives (and a neo-nazi!) and he's easily flattered into any position, so he'll be flattered into theirs.

He is, essentially, Pence, only deeply insecure with malignant narcissism and ADHD. He's much scarier to me now that we've "given him a chance."

Yep. He is very likely controlled by Pence, Bannon, Priebus, and Ryan. This is the general consensus among insiders, though we have no way of confirming at this point.
 
katharath|1485631043|4121153 said:
Matata|1485630801|4121150 said:
JoCoJenn|1485629434|4121134 said:
E B|1485625580|4121084 said:
Absolutely not. It was poorly thought-out and implemented, just like everything else he does. People were given NO warning, stopped at airports coming into the US, with visas and green cards, and told, "Sorry. Contact President Trump" (!!!) All under the BS guise of "keeping us safe."

Really? (the bolder part) For more than a year, right or wrong aside, people heard and every media outlet (real, fake, domestic and international) replayed him say he would do exactly THIS if elected. How can anyone really claim surprise? :confused:
The surprise is not that he wanted to do it. The surprise is that the implementation began yesterday without notice. There were people flying here that had no clue they wouldn't be allowed in. A 1 or 2 day notice would have given people time to change/cancel their flight plans.

Agreed. What a huge [censored] up. Indicative of how he thinks about everything - which is to say, not at all. There is no evidence that he can reason deductively or understand complex potential outcomes.
Sadly true. The stories here support that http://www.vox.com/
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Top