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WARNING! Political and Contentious Discussion Ban

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JPie

Ideal_Rock
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I think the problem with political discussions nowadays is that people confuse their freedom of speech with their sense of entitlement. While you have the right to say exactly what you think, everyone else has the right to tell you what they think of it. If your opinions can't withstand criticism, then maybe they weren't very good to start. Too many people don't understand this and complain bitterly that their rights are being infringed. Naw, you're not entitled to an adoring audience.

@liaerfbv makes some pretty good points. It's not just PS though; American society puts more emphasis on tone policing than racial justice. I also thought seriously about leaving PS when I was put on a time out despite the racists on this board going unpunished, but how's that any different from anywhere else in the US? I'm not going to find racial equity and enlightenment on a jewelry forum.

I'm not sure I really care anymore whether political discussions are banned on PS. Maybe it's for the best.
 

doberman

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As I have said before and will say again, human rights are not political. Neither is discussing racism or current events as long as political discussion is left out of it. If people can have civil conversations about these kinds of topics outside of politics, they will continue to be allowed. If they continue to get contentious and rude, they will not be.

Liberals feel attacked and singled out by us. Conservatives feel attacked and singled out by us. I will close a thread and get multiple messages from BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE yelling at me or fighting with me about our decision. This behavior is not ok.

Those who have gotten time outs and believe it is because they espouse a particular political view should go back and re-read my correspondence with them. It is always because of swearing, name calling, making threats, etc. It is never about merely discussing a contentious topic.

We cannot win here, and the inability of people to have civil discussions without resorting to name calling, is the reason this decision was made by Andrey.

I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with this. I know that some people can get all bent out of shape about things on the internet, but yelling at the mods isn't cool (nor is name-calling, making threats etc.) I always thought this site was pretty respectful overall, and never saw the need to contact a moderator here, let alone argue with one.
 

lissyflo

Brilliant_Rock
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I think it’s a shame to ban discussion. A forum where everything is fluffy, gilded and agreeable, especially a nominal jewellery forum which many could view as superficial at the best of times, runs the risk of becoming trite, sterile and Disney-fied. I really enjoy fleshing out the personality of regular posters by understanding a little of how and what they think and value; it adds a little to my understanding and enjoyment of their jewellery related posts, whether I agree with their views or not.

We all think differently, hold different values and prioritise differently, but that’s a good thing. I personally don’t like the ignore function: listen to divergent opinions and choose to respond or not, but always, always retain the ability to listen. Why close yourself off? I agree with the idea suggested re: a specific sub-forum. It wouldn’t catch the threads that turn, but it would help most people to use the site in the way that best suits them.
 
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Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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Too many tattle tailers, I have personally only reported 2 posts in my years here, but what the management is doing here is what is happening in life, squashing down free speech because frankly free speech really means I'm right and you're wrong. If they were so inclined and probably aren't, have one place where no one can complain.. I think trying to stay IN the rules is difficult.. This is where many of us have spent untold thousands of dollars on advertised vendors and we ALL feel invested in PS..

When management does not want to take the time to read the threads and buffer what can be against TOS then I think all they are saying to me is that PS is just a place for Audry and Ella, to make money; so be that, we all want to make and save money, they should just say, ANY POST that is in ANY way not involving gems and jewelry are banned, that to me would make sense, if it really bothers them (which is seems to) let's just be honest about the motives of the owners and the posters and the jewelers, company's, etc who pay to advertise.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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also only registered members can even read it.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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You know, Andrey owes us zero. This is a diamond and jewelry forum and he has no obligation to have Hangout or any of the other off-topic sub-forums at all. Just from reading this thread I am seeing people name calling and I wouldn't tolerate it, either, if I were him.
 

december-fire

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 3, 2013
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Good heavens, some of these comments!

I know people are 'passionate', 'invested', 'stressed' due to various factors, etc., but this is not an employee-owned business; you don't get to tell PS what to do or not to do, or tell them its the wrong time to make certain decisions. Voice your opinion in a respectable manner, if you wish, but keep in mind that the decision-making authority rests elsewhere.

Its also not a management/employee scenario, so put away your Union card. Doing business with a PS-recommended vendor does not entitle you to call the shots on this Forum; you received a product and various benefits/warranties for your money.

Removing political threads from Hangout is not going to change the outcome of the election. Similarly, democracy and social justice do not rest on what transpires within this Forum. Your ability to vote has not been impacted by this decision.

And 'tattle tailing'? Seriously?

I wasn't going to reply, but some of these comments are so disrespectful that I had to say something.

We are extremely fortunate to have PS. The vendors and PS administration put time, energy and money into establishing and maintaining this website that provides us with a wealth of information about diamonds, other gems and jewellery.

Today's decision regarding political threads certainly didn't come out of the blue; there have been warnings issued before requesting people to be respectful.

Ironically, some of the comments here demonstrate the inability of some people to be respectful.

There are some truly lovely, gracious people here who are able to voice differing opinions in a considerate manner. I appreciate their presence and views.

PS Admin and Vendors - thank you for everything you do!
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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@liaerfbv I really appreciate your post. I too had to take a break and had become disgusted with the racist comments and language being used (and not moderated, but to be fair, I had not reported it so admin may not have been aware). Someone actually called me a "karen" for pointing out the racist language (because "Karens" are really known for their anti-racist behaviour right :lol: ). I think current events related to blm and police brutality can be semi-discussed without politics, but not without shedding further light on racism in this community and the world at large.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I was put on a time out despite the racists on this board going unpunished
... So much for civil discussion.
The only person with any right to play judge, jury, or executioner is a forum moderator.
As someone who was called racist, I don't take kindly to it. I didn't complain to the mods though, just put the person who obviously had no self-control in my Ignore list.
 

seaurchin

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
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My feeling is that being on a forum is kind of like being in someone else's house. It's okay to occasionally, politely, make a request but making demands or telling off the hosts is out of line.

I've run a couple of small groups through the years, both online and in person, and could not believe how many people seemed to think I worked for them.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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no one that I can remember but ONE poster name calls DS. We are his customers, why is this forum here? it's not a non profit is it? The discussions were fine, there are people who try to squash other's voice, seems that is what everyone is trying to do, This is a website, those their rules, used to be in 2013 - 14 you couldn't even say anything about God, because somebody, probably Ella? was a 'believer'... but then it changed and the not believers could voice their reasons and move on.. do you remember the abortion discussions? we made it through all of them, my country is a mess and it was VERY NICE of Andrey Pilipchak to host here and to allow us to blow it off. Not so now.






You know, Andrey owes us zero. This is a diamond and jewelry forum and he has no obligation to have Hangout or any of the other off-topic sub-forums at all. Just from reading this thread I am seeing people name calling and I wouldn't tolerate it, either, if I were him.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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oh God I was crucified by younger women here, called an old fart, arrogant etc. So I was put out of commission for a week and the reason 'i said something racist' which was hysterical to me because I never did, ever.

Ignore was my friend


... So much for civil discussion.
The only person with any right to play judge, jury, or executioner is a forum moderator.
As someone who was called racist, I don't take kindly to it. I didn't complain to the mods though, just put the person who obviously had no self-control in my Ignore list.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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no i don't see it that way, this is a profit making business, not my neighbor, friend, family.. I believe that there were some here who complained incessantly, but if I were manager I'd watch the complainers more.



My feeling is that being on a forum is kind of like being in someone else's house. It's okay to occasionally, politely, make a request but making demands or telling off the hosts is out of line.

I've run a couple of small groups through the years, both online and in person, and could not believe how many people seemed to think I worked for them.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,490
See this is where it get's out of hand, this is a profit making business. I don't make the rules and I DONT FEEL LIKE I EVER VIOLATED TOS. That is the simple answer, to me they were discussions, I always used pointers to support my stand, on occasion been wrong... I said many of us have spent thousands to vendors here because of the site, I don't have to stay and I can stay, I can upgrade my ACA or not I can do whatever I wish to do. The whole place is set up to encourage the posters to buy, you know that right? it's not the Red Cross, I get that.

Added; YES tattle tailing, the people who don't like another's opinion, the righteous..I am sorry you found fault with that but that is the way I saw it, and still do.. because as I said I have alerted management to TWO posts since May of 2013, and there tons I could have but as an adult, I felt it was a discussion and complaining was immature.


Good heavens, some of these comments!

I know people are 'passionate', 'invested', 'stressed' due to various factors, etc., but this is not an employee-owned business; you don't get to tell PS what to do or not to do, or tell them its the wrong time to make certain decisions. Voice your opinion in a respectable manner, if you wish, but keep in mind that the decision-making authority rests elsewhere.

Its also not a management/employee scenario, so put away your Union card. Doing business with a PS-recommended vendor does not entitle you to call the shots on this Forum; you received a product and various benefits/warranties for your money.

Removing political threads from Hangout is not going to change the outcome of the election. Similarly, democracy and social justice do not rest on what transpires within this Forum. Your ability to vote has not been impacted by this decision.

And 'tattle tailing'? Seriously?

I wasn't going to reply, but some of these comments are so disrespectful that I had to say something.

We are extremely fortunate to have PS. The vendors and PS administration put time, energy and money into establishing and maintaining this website that provides us with a wealth of information about diamonds, other gems and jewellery.

Today's decision regarding political threads certainly didn't come out of the blue; there have been warnings issued before requesting people to be respectful.

Ironically, some of the comments here demonstrate the inability of some people to be respectful.

There are some truly lovely, gracious people here who are able to voice differing opinions in a considerate manner. I appreciate their presence and views.

PS Admin and Vendors - thank you for everything you do!
 
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Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,981
It was bound to happen. I'm all for constructive dialog but it devolves into emotional name calling and too many knee jerk reactionary posts especially where TOO is involved.

I learned ages ago that fighting with pixels and allowing that to take over your free time doesn't do squat for you. A great discussion with lots of great points is fantastic, and I participate in those threads, but I also know when its time for me to bow out without going to the nth degree. sometimes you have to be the adult and just end it.

I also don't drag disagreements from thread to thread and I've seen that a lot...too much.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,490
Maybe it is. Everyone has a view and theirs is right.

I think the problem with political discussions nowadays is that people confuse their freedom of speech with their sense of entitlement. While you have the right to say exactly what you think, everyone else has the right to tell you what they think of it. If your opinions can't withstand criticism, then maybe they weren't very good to start. Too many people don't understand this and complain bitterly that their rights are being infringed. Naw, you're not entitled to an adoring audience.

@liaerfbv makes some pretty good points. It's not just PS though; American society puts more emphasis on tone policing than racial justice. I also thought seriously about leaving PS when I was put on a time out despite the racists on this board going unpunished, but how's that any different from anywhere else in the US? I'm not going to find racial equity and enlightenment on a jewelry forum.

I'm not sure I really care anymore whether political discussions are banned on PS. Maybe it's for the best.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
3,814
... So much for civil discussion.
The only person with any right to play judge, jury, or executioner is a forum moderator.
As someone who was called racist, I don't take kindly to it. I didn't complain to the mods though, just put the person who obviously had no self-control in my Ignore list.

If someone were to call me a racist, I would want to understand why so that I can decide whether it’s best to desist from whatever I said or did to result in that person feeling offended.

The thing about racism is that words and actions don’t require malicious intent to cause damage. If someone chooses to persist in hurtful/harmful behavior even after being told of the unintended consequences, then yes, I consider that person a racist.

Incivility is dismissing my experiences with racism on this board and telling me that they’re not valid unless a moderator says they are.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
32,976
I would also support @Matata's idea of a separate subforum that is not moderated where people can "have at it" if they choose to accept the consequences of doing so. If posters don't like it, then don't read/post there. Just my opinion.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen! :lol:
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,042
... I personally don’t like the ignore function: listen to divergent opinions and choose to respond or not, but always, always retain the ability to listen.

Why close yourself off? ...

I love the ignore function.
I only ignore people being A-holes.
Why smell that odor?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
30,042
I'm astonished at the anti-admin comments here. :eek-2::eek-2::eek-2:
Astonished!

Money you paid at a PS-sponsored vendor is not a tax entitling you to a vote in a democracy.
PS is not a democracy.
It's a private for-profit place owned and operated by admin.
It provides enormous benefit to diamond shoppers.

How bout y'allz follow the rules you agreed to follow when you registered?
The main one being violated again and again on this thread is challenging and even just discussing moderator actions on a thread.

Don't like the terms you agreed to follow?
Discuss them privately with admin, or leave.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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6,252
Some of the responses to this thread read astoundingly entitled & petulant, so I support & respect this decision that reminds us all ‘PS’ = PriceScope; not PoliticalScope. The internet is HUGE and there are plenty of social media sites dedicated to political discussions & debate without further mucking up PS or creating unnecessary headaches/work for Owner/Admin - regardless of whether they do it for free or fee.

The idea of a seperate political forum sounds swell until the debate gets carried away and it leads to somehow tarnishing PS’ image outside that forum (e.g., screenshots w/PS logo) because someone doesn’t like what/how others post. Not my site so not my decision, but if it were, I wouldn’t go through the pains to carve it out without serious consideration for the risk it carries given social media & ‘cancel culture’. Just my $0.02 trying to see it from all sides. Besides, isn’t the point to shed ‘disinfecting’ light on topics - not hide them in secret?

And that’s all I’m gonna say about that ... because the owner has spoken & I don’t write the mortgage check. :wavey:
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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30,042
I'm astonished at the anti-admin comments here. :eek-2::eek-2::eek-2:
Astonished!

Money you paid at a PS-sponsored vendor is not some tax entitling you to a vote in a democracy.
PS is not a democracy.
It's a private (yes, for-profit) place that is owned and operated by admin.
It has resulted in better diamonds for less money for all who will spend the time to learn.
No small thing!

How bout y'allz follow the rules you agreed to follow when you registered?
The main one being violated again and again on this thread is challenging/discussing moderator actions publicly.

Don't like the terms you agreed to follow?
Discuss them privately with admin, or leave.

I'm guilty of violating terms too, but I do draw the line at posting disagreement with admin - which is running rampant in this thread.
It's a tribute to Ella/Andre's patience that all these posts, and posters, have not been dealt with in this thread.
Another forum I frequent would have everyone of these posts remove and each poster PERMANENTLY banned.

Forgot the terms you agreed to?
Here's a snip:

  1. Moderator Action:
    1. Use the
      button for any questions related to thread/post removal, policies clarification, etc.
    2. Please do not post assumptions about moderator actions, this creates confusion, use
      button so that the moderator may clarify it appropriately. We are more than happy to do so.
    3. Some actions are subject to judgment calls for the integrity of the forum and should be respected as that.
    4. Cross posts of the same or similar threads in multiple forums will be removed.
    5. Out of respect for members/moderators and to avoid confusion any public discussions of moderator actions or policies will be removed.
    6. We reserve the rights to change policies at any time, therefore, please do not discuss policies publicly as they may change.
 
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Lisa Loves Shiny

Ideal_Rock
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4,008
I love this forum because it is the exact opposite of what causes me anxiety. The world is a very tough, harsh place but here we get to talk and share our love for sparkly diamonds and vibrant colored gems. It is a forum I come to to escape the things that make me anxious. The last thing I want to view is discussions on politics on my jewelry forum.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
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7,490
We are all different, so am I to think that this is the Red Cross, nope, this is a business, I liked being able to talk about politics and I find exchanging of words a good thing in what I deem dark times. I think PS is a place that encourages vendors to advertise and jewelry lovers to admire and spend, and I feel in my own way that I helped support PS by buying from the vendors, I am not saying kiss my derriere I am saying that what attracted me to PS were the OEC and ACAs etc AND political discussion their rules my choices.. I see nothing wrong with that, but others OBVIOUSLY do.. their problem not mine. i have ALWAYS followed the rules, I have never name called, calling people petulant, etc. It is amazing to me how MANY people cannot read my comments and just leave it. I believe what I say is true, no one has written anything here that makes me thankful, it's business all business.

:halo::)


I'm astonished at the anti-admin comments here. :eek-2::eek-2::eek-2:
Astonished!

Money you paid at a PS-sponsored vendor is not a tax entitling you to a vote in a democracy.
PS is not a democracy.
It's a private for-profit place owned and operated by admin.
It provides enormous benefit to diamond shoppers.

How bout y'allz follow the rules you agreed to follow when you registered?
The main one being violated again and again on this thread is challenging and even just discussing moderator actions on a thread.

Don't like the terms you agreed to follow?
Discuss them privately with admin, or leave.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,490
A question for people who feel strongly about the 'rules'.. Who makes you read the poltical threads? I don't read about Pearls because I have zero interest in pearls, I don't like some of the diamond cuts people post, I just skim and move on.. no one was dragged into a thread, those who come in are people who want to discuss, those who find the diamonds etc and SMTB etc should move on by.. who is dragging people in?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,042
We are all different, so am I to think that this is the Red Cross, nope, this is a business, I liked being able to talk about politics and I find exchanging of words a good thing in what I deem dark times. I think PS is a place that encourages vendors to advertise and jewelry lovers to admire and spend, and I feel in my own way that I helped support PS by buying from the vendors, I am not saying kiss my derriere I am saying that what attracted me to PS were the OEC and ACAs etc AND political discussion their rules my choices.. I see nothing wrong with that, but others OBVIOUSLY do.. their problem not mine. i have ALWAYS followed the rules, I have never name called, calling people petulant, etc. It is amazing to me how MANY people cannot read my comments and just leave it. I believe what I say is true, no one has written anything here that makes me thankful, it's business all business.

:halo::)

It's always the few who spoil it for the many.
Blame the few, not the lawmakers or the police.
 
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