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Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1.5ct

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oli

Rough_Rock
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Jul 29, 2014
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Hello
I would really appreciate some input from those in the "know" about diamonds.
This is my first real diamond purchase and I want to make sure I get the best one possible.
I have a choice between 2 which seem quite similar (to me).
I have attached the idealscope images
as well as the ASET images
Attached is one of the GIA certificates (for the faint fluorescence)
I will attach the other GIA certificate, HCA's and diamond pictures with magnification next.
Please let me know which one you think it better and why.
Thanks so much in advance - I am finding it very difficult to decide between the two!

ideal_scope__2_.jpg

aset_18.jpg

aset_medium.jpg
 

Attachments

Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

and the last image

Thanks!

2176568310_medium.jpg
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

:wavey: If I had to choose I would go with the first one, but personally I would not get either because the tables are so large. It depends on the look you want.
Are you set on 1.5 exactly? If you can stay just under you will save money.
Also - it may be the photos, but the diamonds don't look at well-cut as they could be.
Here's an example of an ideal cut with nicely defined center [from a vendor I've used].colorful.jpg

What color and clarity are you seeking? and if you post your price range people here will give you examples of other options.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Thanks Jimmianne

I thought the cut was good for both diamonds - they are excellent in cut, polish and symmetry?

So just because it is excellent doesn't mean it is excellent? What should I be looking for instead?

When you say you prefer the first do you mean the faint or medium diamond?

I don't mind about the carat weight.

My preferences are:
Excellent or above for Cut, Polish and Symmetry;
F colour;
VS1 or VS2;
dimensions around 7.5mm or more;
Price US$18,000 to US$20,000

Thanks for your help.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

oli|1407494270|3728432 said:
Thanks Jimmianne

I thought the cut was good for both diamonds - they are excellent in cut, polish and symmetry?

So just because it is excellent doesn't mean it is excellent? What should I be looking for instead?

When you say you prefer the first do you mean the faint or medium diamond?

I don't mind about the carat weight.

My preferences are:
Excellent or above for Cut, Polish and Symmetry;
F colour;
VS1 or VS2;
dimensions around 7.5mm or more;
Price US$18,000 to US$20,000

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

I am no expert! but I've been studying and buying diamonds since last fall.
There is a learning curve and you're in the right place - great people and info here.
All excellent diamonds are not created equal.
It's all about light performance.
You want a diamond that will perform well in all lighting situations, even in low light. So the right cut will give you the proper "balance". Just because it's rated Excellent by GIA doesn't mean it will be the best performer you can get.


I like your parameters. Many will say you can go below VS2, but I have found that some VS2s have inclusions that bother me. I like to have "mind clean" stones, so a black inclusion on the table of a diamond that I can see with my 10x loupe bothers me.
F-G are good.

If I were buying another round diamond I would look at an AGS 000 from Whiteflash, Good Old Gold or Infinity Diamonds. These are all respected vendors used by people on Pricescope. There may be other good suggestions. It's just that these companies do a lot of the homework for you. Their top diamonds are some of the best of the best. If you go to a larger company you can find great stones, but you will have to have more knowledge. People here with more experience than I have can weed through the candidates and be helpful.

I chose the "faint" because the second stone appeared to have a lot of light leakage.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Thanks Jimmianne

What do you think of this one from Good Old Gold?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12250/

Better than the two I posted earlier?

I have watched a lot of Good Old Gold videos on Youtube and they are very informative, as is this site.

I agree about clarity - it is important to me that I cannot see anything and it is "mind clean" not eye clean as I can usually see the imperfections close up.

I am actually located in Australia and so I am a little reluctant to buy online and have been going through jewellers in Australia who are looking overseas but it seems like there is a lot more available online and at cheaper prices than I am being quoted here.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

They're both 60/60 stones, so called because the table size and depth are around 60%. Rounds with large tables, shallow crown angles, and short crown heights often favor brilliance (white light return and contrast) over dispersion (colored light return or "fire").

As far as GIA "triple excellent" goes: I like that you're considering that as a minimum. However, GIA uses a proportion-based rounding for cut grades, and the "triple excellent" score covers a fairly big range. Some are good and some are low on that range and actually mediocre performers.

A reason for this is that because the score allows a crown angle and a pavilion angle to both be rounded (remember that there are lots of these facets involved, not just two!) and still get an excellent score if both are within an ideal range, even if they don't necessarily complement each other. :read: This has allowed cutters to make what we call "steep/deep" combo stones (crown and pavilion angle) that retain weight (more money from rough) while still getting a grade that, on the surface, looks good to potential consumers.

AGS (the other preferred lab) uses 3D ray tracing of all 57 facets to develop a map of the stone and assign a cut score based on its overall light performance, polish, and symmetry. Each has to be a 0 (on a scale of 0-10) for the whole cut grade to be a 0. A stone with a 0 score for light performance, polish, and symmetry (and therefore overall cut) is known as an AGS0.

If you're going to aim for a GIA "ex/ex/ex" stone, it's critical to closely examine all of the numbers involved to ensure they complement each other, look at Ideal-Scope and ASET Images (as you've done) and also real magnified photographs.

It's easy for 60/60 stones to have pavilion angles too deep (to try to balance that shallow crown angle) and then exhibit some leakage (which we don't want).

Although your two aren't bad, there are better ones out there.

I like to think of the four C's like sliders on a sound board. Dial up and down down. Each affects price and each is a compromise.

Let us know your preferences for each; the more we can adjust the dials appropriately to stay within your budget, the more we can better assist in a search and selection.

Welcome and best of luck in this coming adventure! :wavey:
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Hi SirGuy

Thank you for your input.

I think that Cut is my number one preference as I understand this is what will most affect the "sparkle" of the diamond.

What you have said about the AGS system is good to know and so I will start looking for AGS0. I thought GIA Excellent was the ideal.

Clarity is also important to me as I think I am short sighted so I am looking for something that is VS1 or VS2 with no black/carbon inclusions so I cannot see any imperfections when I look at the diamond up close.

Ideally I think I would not go lower than an F.

Carat is probably of least importance for me, though I would hope to achieve 1.5ct with a budget of around $20k. Let me know though if this is unrealistic and maybe then I would consider a G...

Thanks.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Hi Oli,

Please excuse my brevity on this one as I'm on my phone!

AGS0 stones are ones I'd strongly consider. AGS is a very reputable lab and the most conservative on cut. You're right to consider cut as the most important C. Around here, we say, "Cut is king."

$20,000 puts you in F or G and VS2 territory. VS2 is usually eye clean and generally what inclusions it does have, even if not easily seen, won't affect light performance in a significant way.

I wouldn't compromise on cut. Many would think about going down to G and keeping ideal cut rather than F and "almost but not quite" great cut.

Vetted and quality vendors include, but aren't necessarily limited to: Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds, and Brian Gavin Diamonds.

Please be aware that 1.5 carats is one of those "magic numbers," or weight milestones, where you might pay a little premium on a well cut stone.

Cutters are sometimes tempted (and reasonably so) to maintain weight while getting good cut. If a stone looks like it'll be close to 1.5 (a number customers like) a cutter might sacrifice a little quality on cut to hit that weight. If the cutter keeps cut quality as the priority, you might pay a little more for it. (Ideal cutting wastes more rough.)

Let us know how your search goes! I think you can look at VS2 or even SI1 if it's eye clean and doesn't affect the performance or integrity of the stone. Personally, carat (weight) is the least important of the four C's to me. What I do is narrow down my cut first, then color, then clarity. Then with those set (no pun intended) I see what I can afford for weight. :wavey:
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

oli|1407497037|3728449 said:
Thanks Jimmianne

What do you think of this one from Good Old Gold?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12250/

Better than the two I posted earlier?

I have watched a lot of Good Old Gold videos on Youtube and they are very informative, as is this site.

I agree about clarity - it is important to me that I cannot see anything and it is "mind clean" not eye clean as I can usually see the imperfections close up.

I am actually located in Australia and so I am a little reluctant to buy online and have been going through jewellers in Australia who are looking overseas but it seems like there is a lot more available online and at cheaper prices than I am being quoted here.
Click to expand...

This one is much better than the first two. One of the first two had a crown angle of only 32 which combined with a larger table makes the stone looked pretty flat topped from the sides. The one from GOG is better cut and the images show that. The GIA grading is good because they sometimes are stricter on color than AGS. GOG carries both GIA and AGS graded stones, but they specialize in well cut stones which is the most important factor. You have a winner in this stone, though. It is $19,989.

We have a lot of people here from Australia who buy diamonds from the US.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

I like the CBI diamond. It is SI1, which allows you to get more for your money but the clouds are not on the table (pretty much). It is very well cut as well. I though that the ASET and IS of the first two stones at the top were a bit wonky. When I read that they were 60/60 it made sense. I'd go with GOG or CBI for a well-cut diamond because that is the determining factor for me when I'm looking to buy.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

CBI hands down.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Hi everyone

Thank you for all of your comments so far - they have been very helpful.

I have been onto goodoldgold, whiteflash and CBI however they don't seem to have any diamonds matching my criteria that are AGS0.

I have come across the following one however through a pricescope search. I only have the GIA which is attached



The proportions seem to be much better than those I have posted and seem to be within the "ideal" criteria of AGS:

Table is 57%
Depth is 62.1%
Angles are 36 and 40.6.

It is a bit more expensive but I figure if it makes me happy... :P

The clarity seems to be exceptionally good.

The others that I came across and are on my comparison shortlist are:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results

They are cheaper but seem to have more and bigger inclusions.

Thank you.
 

Attachments

Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

oli|1407657892|3729591 said:
The others that I came across and are on my comparison shortlist are:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results

They are cheaper but seem to have more and bigger inclusions.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

These are all EGL stones. Your stone is a GIA stone. Did you run it through the HCA? Also does the vendor offer idealscopes?
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Hi

The HCA is 1.9, though three "very good" and one "excellent" for fire.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.9 - Excellent
within FIC range

It is from "Engagement Rings Direct". Is this a reputable site? They do not have Idealscope, ASET etc online but I will email them and see if they can send it to me.

Sorry the link on my last post did not work properly. The other four on my shortlist are all GIA:

Shape Carat Color Clarity Depth Table Sym Pol Flr Lab Cut Price
•

Round 1.60 F VS1 60.3% 58.0% X X N GIA Excellent $20282
•

Round 1.62 F VS1 62.3% 57.0% X X N GIA Excellent $20583
•

Round 1.65 F VS1 61.9% 56.0% ID ID N GIA Excellent $19729
•

Round 1.66 F VS1 61.7% 56.0% X X N GIA Excellent $19776

Again no ASET, Idealscope etc on the websites which include B2C Jewels, Eternity Diamonds and engagement rings direct.

Thanks.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

Yes they are very reputable. It's a great stone. If it is eyeclean. They can absolutely get you an idealscope. If this stone isn't eyeclean, just continue to work with them to find a great stone, they are a very good vendor.
 
Re: Pls help me decide which diamond is the best brilliant 1

oli|1407494270|3728432"]Thanks Jimmianne

I thought the cut was good for both diamonds - they are excellent in cut, polish and symmetry?
Click to expand...

Hi Oli,

Just jumping in here to address the above! You are absolutely right, looking at the big picture away from the microcosm that is Pricescope, the cut is definitely good for both diamonds! Even by Pricescope standards, these are still very well cut diamonds, you are on the right track. But it depends what you want, exceedingly well cut 60 60 types with their tendency to favour brilliance, or flawlessly cut true Superideals such as CBI. That very much depends on the buyer and their budget and preference but may I say with the selections you have picked Oli, you won't get this wrong, it just depends on the level of cut quality you want. Great job!

ERD are a highly reputable vendor also, you will have no worries should you decide to buy from them. Don't go by the HCA predictions as being an absolute for performance nuances, once you score below 2, Idealscope image ( which ERD can get for you), plus their expert assessment on cut performance and whether the ' eye cleanliness' of the diamond will suit you will be the next step.
 
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