Please review this diamond for me!!

[WallyWatkins]

Hello everyone,

I've chosen a ring that's already created from an extremely reputable jeweler, but I was hoping to get some feedback on the GIA information since you're all so much more knowledgeable! I know that I can trust this boutique in terms of diamonds, but would love to get a better picture of the quality. Thank you so so much in advance, I really really appreciate it!!

Shape and cutting style: round brilliant
Measurements: 5.07-5.10-3.20 mm
Weight: 0.51 ct

Proportions:
Depth: 62.9%
Table: 58%
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Culet: none

Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good

Clarity Grade: VS1
Characteristics: Crystal, needle, pinpoint

Color Grade: F
Fluorescence: None

 

[tyty333]

Can you post the crown and pavilion angles please?

 

[WallyWatkins]

For some reason, the GIA report is missing this information. I'm not sure why, I tried to find them myself to check with HCA, but not really sure why it's not present on the GIA .

 

[slg47]

is it an older GIA report?

 

[Lula]

It's a little deep, but that may or may not be a problem depending on the other proportions. Do you have the GIA report number? With the report number and the exact carat weight, we can look at the report on GIA's site.

 

[WallyWatkins]

Yes, it's dated January 31, 2004. Do you think that's an issue? The cut grade is also not present on the GIA report. Thanks so much for your responses!

 

[WallyWatkins]

I do not have the report number sadly, just the information contained in the dossier

 

[Lula]

Yes, the age of the report could have something to do with the missing numbers. There's no GIA number on the report at all? If not, there are other ways to assess the diamond. Visual inspection trumps the HCA anyway. Do you own an Idealscope? https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope That would be a quick way to assess the diamond's overall cut quality. The diamond doesn't have to look like it's a picture-perfect hearts and arrow cut to be a sparkly stone, but you don't want to see a ring of black or white in the center of the diamond when you view it under the scope.

 

[WallyWatkins]

There is a number on the report, I just only have the information from it. I've seen the report in person at the boutique, but only took home the data. The ring is from cartier, so I assumed I could trust the quality of the stone, however, am a little nervous .

I don't own an idealscope either. I think that by the time I ordered and received it, it might be a little too late since this ring is on hold for only a certain period of time for me. Do you think it would be silly to place my trust in cartier and their quality without having the cut grade or crown and pavillion angles?

Thanks again, this is so so helpful!!

 

[JulieN]

With the depth and table information, combined with a medium girdle, it likely won't score well on HCA. Not sure if GIA will have angles from 2004.

Don't worry about it being on hold or not, it hasn't sold in 7 years.

 

[WallyWatkins]

Thank you for your input, JulieN. So do you think that this would not be a good diamond to consider? The focus on this ring lies a lot more with the design and less on the diamond, but I would not want to purchase a diamond of poor quality.

 

[JulieN]

.... Maybe you can call them and ask for the report number. You will be able to look it up online, and GIA may have the angles...

I don't know if it's a good stone or not. They all look so sparkly and similar in the store, don't they?

If it's one of their signature, more popular settings, you can tell them what you want and they should be able to find it.... HCA under 2.5 or 3 should do it.

 

[Lula]

Hmm, interesting that Cartier has a diamond in stock with a grading report from 2004. That is "old stock" for sure. No, just because it's a Cartier diamond does not mean that the stone will fall into the GIA excellent or AGS 0 cut categories. My guess is the stone was cut deep to make it over the crucial 1/2 carat weight. But that's just a guess. You will need to rely on your eyes to assess this diamond. Is it already in a setting? If so, take a look at the diamond in a variety of lighting conditions -- fluorescent lighting, low lighting (hold the ring away from the bright store lights, like under the edge of the counter, diffused daylight, a dimly-lit hallway in the store, etc.). Make sure the diamond doesn't go dull or dark near the center of the stone. Take a look at the edges of the stone -- are they bright and sparkly, or dull and dark? In the end, you'll need to decide if what you want is the Cartier name (and setting) and risk getting a diamond that is undoubtedly pretty, but not top-notch in terms of cut. There are always trade-offs.

ETA: Another thing to consider, is if this diamond is cut deeper than optimal, you're paying for a 1/2 carat stone, but the diamond may look more like a .45 carat weight diamond. There is a large price increase at certain carat weights, e.g., .25, .50. .75, 1.00...maybe they'll give you a discount on the price since, as Julie N., stated, it hasn't sold in almost 7 years, and it's likely small in diameter for its weight! Never hurts to ask.

 

[WallyWatkins]

The ring is actually a limited edition ring, with a minute amount left globally. To recreate the setting with a particular diamond would actually about double the price that we'd have to pay. They do all look so beautiful in the store! It's so hard to tell with my more limited knowledge of diamonds .

My fiance, who has a decent eye for eyeballing carat sizes, thinks that the stone faces up around the right size for a 0.5 ct (however, he is not an expert by any means haha, so not too sure about that). On my 3 3/4- 4 size finger, the diamond gives pretty decent finger coverage for a 1/2 carat, but again, that is of my limited assessment . I'm fairly certain that the ring itself is not 7 years old, I believe it only came out in the last few years. I will definitely go back into the store and examine the stone with your advice, lula!

Seriously, thank you again, so much, for your advice and comments. I cannot tell you how much we appreciate it, especially since this is such an important decision for us!!

 

[slg47]

the diameter seems fine. are there any other rings with diamonds with newer reports (and cut grades)? Will the jeweler send to GIA to get an updated report?

 

[WallyWatkins]

Thanks slg47! There are not any other rings with newer gia reports, the only other ring in that setting is actually from 2003, if I remember correctly.

We will be asking if they will send in for an updated report- is that possible with the stone set already though?

 

[Lula]

Thanks slg47! There are not any other rings with newer gia reports, the only other ring in that setting is actually from 2003, if I remember correctly.

We will be asking if they will send in for an updated report- is that possible with the stone set already though?

No, I believe the stone will have to be unmounted. Given the fact that this is a limited edition ring, with the diamond already set, I wouldn't bother having the stone unmounted for an updated grading report. Are they sizing the ring for you? If so, I'd maybe make an exception in that case, and ask to have them remove the stone and send it in for an updated GIA report.

 

[WallyWatkins]

Hmm, that's what I was thinking.

Nope, they're not sizing the ring. It's the exact size that I need. Seems like this is an extremely difficult diamond to assess . Would you recommend bringing an appraised in to appraise the diamond?

 

[JulieN]

In the case of a limited edition Cartier, some leeway has to be exercised... A very good time to stop worry about the numbers, perhaps.

 

[Lula]

In the case of a limited edition Cartier, some leeway has to be exercised... A very good time to stop worry about the numbers, perhaps.

Agree with this.
Please post photos of this ring if you decide to buy it. I'd love to see it.

 

[yssie]

In the case of a limited edition Cartier, some leeway has to be exercised... A very good time to stop worry about the numbers, perhaps.

Thritto.

My focus is pretty much always the diamond, but in this case it sounds like the ring as a package is the #1 priority, and that being the case...

 

[WallyWatkins]

Thanks guys! I feel a lot better looking at it that way- the beauty of the piece definitely lies in the overall ring and not the diamond alone. Do you still think it would be worth having someone come in to appraise prior to purchasing though, or would it be better to wait until after for insurance purposes?

 

[WallyWatkins]

Hello!

Sorry to bring this up again, but we've spoken to several appraisers about the old GIA report and all have said that having this information missing will seriously hinder any appraisal that we get, and it's ability to stand up in court. We plan on speaking with cartier about whether or not they can decrease the price of the ring or send the diamond back from a full report, but if they can't, I was wondering what you guys thought about paying full price. If, in the worst case scenario, cartier says they cannot return the diamond to GIA and cannot decrease the pricing (around 10k), would you still purchase the ring knowing that it's limited edition? I'm completely in love with the setting and the ring as a whole, but am very concerned about it for insurance purposes and quality- esp. when cartier focuses so highly on quality of their pieces and diamonds. Thanks again for all the advice, sorry for all the questions!!

 

[JulieN]

talk to your insurance company about how they would handle a claim for a limited edition cartier. How did they do appraisals before 2004?

 

[WallyWatkins]

Hi Everyone!

Thank you again for all the comments that people made about the specifications of the diamond. We spoke to Cartier and they've given us the option of choosing one of two of the diamonds in the limited edition ring that we are purchasing to send back, have destroyed to get a cut grade for the diamond and then remade in a new setting. We can only choose one of the diamonds however, to send back, so I was hoping I could get opinions on which diamond you guys would choose based on the specs. They seem similar, but when looking at them, the second diamond seemed to face up larger (although this could have been a result of a slightly larger bezel). Diamond 1 is the original diamond that I posted on here!

DIAMOND 1:
Shape and cutting style: round brilliant
Measurements: 5.07-5.10-3.20 mm
Weight: 0.51 ct

Proportions:
Depth: 62.9%
Table: 58%
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good

Clarity Grade: VS1
Characteristics: Crystal, needle, pinpoint

Color Grade: F
Fluorescence: None

DIAMOND 2:
Shape and cutting style: round brilliant
Measurements: 5.15-5.17-3.11 mm
Weight: 0.51 ct

Proportions:
Depth: 60.3%
Table: 57%
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent

Clarity Grade: VS2
Characteristics: Feather, needle

Color Grade: E
Fluorescence: None

Thank you so much, again, for all your wonderful assistance. I don't know what I would do without the help of the much more knowledgeable folks on this forum !

Best,
Wallywatkins24