Please Help Rookie Elimnate Some Diamonds!

[noobie]

Hello everyone. After spending hours upon hours reading the tutorials here, searching the threads and reading GOGs and NiceIce's web sites and others, I finally set out looking for some diamonds. I'm looking for a 1.25 to 1.3 carat diamond that I will match with another two stones of about 0.6 carat each to make a three stone ring. I figure finding the two 60 point diamonds will be easier than the main stone, so I'm concentrating on the main stone first.

What I think I've concluded (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the following:

1. Trips to the mall stores or any stores without research will only lead to confusion, frustration and desperation…, thankfully because of this site, I’m past that stage
2. For a given quality of diamond, most competitive reputable vendors are within a few hundred dollars in price. It seems to come down to availability and service for vendors such as Dirt Cheap, White Flash, GOG, NiceIce.
3. For a novice like me, it’s very hard to tell the difference between a very well cut diamond and an ideal diamond. I tried it at a local dealer looking at two 1.25 VS2 H round stones. One was and AGS0 and the other was a GIA very good. I picked out the AGS0, just barely, only because I read the entire tutorial and I had a 50:50 chance. Once mounted I think it would be very hard to tell.
4. I had a hard time seeing the difference between G and H until they were sideways against a white card. The difference from H to I was easy to spot.

I was trying to find SI1 G stones, but there seem to be very few of them. Should I go with VS2 H or SI2 F instead? With that I’ve been searching for stones using Pricescope and the web and have come up the following stones that I would appreciate some help with eliminating some of them. Fortunately budget is not a major issue in the ranges, but I don’t want to spend money unnecessarily.

Stone12345
Carat Weight1.3081.311.2961.361.24
CutAGS0AGS0GIA EGIA EGIA E
Cert AGSAGSGIAGIAGIA
ClaritySI2SI2SI1SI1VS2
ColorFGHGH
Diameter7.147.117.097.17.0
Depth60.460.860.761.860.6
Table5656.2555857.8
Crown34.834.834.933.2
Pavilion4140.840.841.1
Polishididexvgvg
Symmetryididexvgvg
Fluorescencenonononono
HCA Score1.91.31.41.5
$/Carat48454874490551735310
Cost63376385635770356585

Stone678910
Carat Weight1.31.3611.2821.231.28
CutSupCertAGS0AGS0AGS0AGS0
Cert GIAAGSAGSAGSAGS
ClaritySI1VS2VS2VS1VS2
ColorHHHGH
Diameter7.067.247.046.967.03
Depth60.66060.861.361
Table57565655.756
Crown34.634.8343534.3
Pavilion40.840.740.940.840.7
Polishexididexid
Symmetryexididexid
Fluorescencenonononono
HCA Score1.30.91.11.50.9
$/Carat53275669577160456195
Cost69257757739874357930

Diamonds 5 and 10 were viewed at a local jeweler. The rest are on-line. I know that’s a long list, but I’ve already reduced it by half. If you could point out some reasons why I should eliminate them I would appreciate it.

I'm really sorry for the length

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Ok, I would eliminate #4 because you don't know the crown and pavilion angles and the polish and symmetry is only "very good."

I would eliminate #5 because it has the second smallest diameter and only vergy good polish and symmetry.

I would eliminate #10 because it is the same color, clarity, and cut quality as #s 7 and 8 but has the smallest diameter of the three and is more expensive.

I would eliminate #9 because you are getting a smaller stone in exchange for an invisible difference in clarity.

I would eliminate any of the SI stones *if* they are not eye-clean. Ask the seller.

Out of the remaining stones, I would recommend:
#7, if the diameter is really 7.24, because it will look the biggest and should definitely be eye-clean at VS2, if you don't mind spending an extra $1500, otherwise:

#1, if it is eye-clean, because you are getting better color and it has the second largest diameter (and 1.9 versus 0.9 on the HCA is really negligible) for the best price!

If #1 is not eye-clean, then I recommend #2 (as long as it is eye-clean) or #3, because those are the best when it comes to price. The ones I still have left in consideration (#s 6 and do not seem to warrant the extra $ to still get a "H" stone. I figure #3 is eye-clean, but you should always check. However, just to play the devil's advocate, the superbcert is a great combination of color and clarity, and you know more information about it like the brilliancescope, etc.

So, to review,
#7 if you can spend the $ and really don't mind "H"
#1 or #2 for better color and great price if they are eye-clean
#3 or #6 if #7 is too much for worse color and #1 and #2 aren't eye-clean

 

[hoorray]

I would cut out some first -- putting # 1,2,3,7 in the final list. (Based on cost vs diameter, and factoring in HCA score and/or cut info.) I eliminated those that were more expensive if there was a comparable lower priced one, and skip any that you don't have complete info on -- why take the risk with all these good alternatives? Of these 5, I'd make sure they are all eye clean, and eliminate any that are not or that have any inclusions to worry about or that have extremely thin girdles. #7 is the most expensive both per carat and total, but the specs are great and you are ok with H color. I'd consider budget tradeoffs. If you are comfortable with that price bump over the others, I'd probably go for that one. The other choice is to get down to 2 or 3, and have them shipped to an appraiser near you to compare live and in person.


Good luck!

 

[strmrdr]

I would dump:
4 and 5

4 not enough info

5 is a tough one the pavilion over 41 isn’t generally good but it well balances out the 33.2 crown but were being picky here but still it could Rock!

1 and 2 are they eye clean? If not dump em.

6 trumps 7&8 on price if its eye clean with similar cut.

9 is only worth the extra money if you want the G color

8 trumps 10 on price.

So the winner is 6 if its eye clean and 1 and 2 aren’t :} but 5 is a real wildcard it could be the best of the lot.

 

[noobie]

Thanks for the input. I was kind of leaning towards 7 myself. I'll check on how eye clean the other SI stones are as well.




Do you guys think it would be a noticeable upgrade to spend another $1500 or so and get a VS2 F stone? If I did that I would probaby go SI1 F for the sides. I know the budget seems all over the place but this is for a 10 year anniversary and I want to make sure it's done right. As background her engagement ring is a 1 carat SI2 D/E (depending on the lab). It is very icy white. However, I didn't know about cut back then, so the stone is not ideal. It is bright , but lacks some contrast and fire.




BTW phoenixgirl, I picked stone 9 based on your suggestions to another post.




strmrdr thanks for the different perspective...more to think about




A thing about 5 and 10 is I think I could get a few dolars off each, being local. 5 looks great, but has a thin girdle in one spot of the stone (1.0 - 2.1% on the sarin). I guess a prong could cover it though.




Thanks, again

 

[phoenixgirl]

That's funny that I eliminated one of my recommendations! But I guess that knowing that you are fine with "H" color and lower clarity makes it seem like it's not worth the $.

Is it $1500 more than the most expensive stone to get the F VS2? So it's about $9400?

I know you want to wow your wife, but I just don't think I would ever spend several hundred or thousand more dollars for minute differences . . . I'd rather go out to dinner once a week or take a vacation. What are the specifics of the stone?

Maybe the problem is that your budget is up in the air. I would figure out your top limit for your budget, and then get the nicest stone you can for the $. For example, I might rather have a bigger H SI1 than the F VS2 you're looking at. When you know your limit, then you can really compare apples with apples.

 

[strmrdr]

At this point id narrow it down to 3 or 4 taking everyones advice and your own feelings on them and get the works on them.

heart pictures
arrow pictures
ideal-scope or firescope images
inclusion and over all pictures at 10x and real size.
Then make the final decision from there.

The reality is that all 10 stones from a foot away from the info given would appear almost interchangeable.
That’s assuming that one or more of them doesn’t have problems not included in the above information such as miss cut minor faucets or dark inclusions.

 

[abba]

If G-H is not noticeable, then H-I should not be "easily noticeable." If it is, then either the H or the I stone is not graded properly (or both). The variance between any two color grades should be equally difficult (or easy) to spot. i.e., it should be just as tough to distinguish between K/L as between E/F. The gradiation is fairly constant... or at least should be.

Perhaps that H stone you were comparing was borderling G, the G borderline H, and the I borderline J. That is a distinct possibility. I suppose what I'm saying is that for the particular stones you have narrowed your search to it really doesn't matter what I think about the color scale, as your eye is the final judge on those particular stones. However, don't allow that to rule out H or I stones in the future, as the examples you have looked at may not be representative at all, even with good certifications.

Now, about the choices, I would personally go SI1/SI2 if the stone was eye clean, and many are. Put the money on color, not clarity, especially if this isn't an engagement ring. I can generally see the difference between colors when they are two grades apart... but I can't tell the difference between an eye clean SI2 and an IF/FL stone without magnification. By definition, if it is eye clean, no one really can.

 

[hoorray]

PhoenixGirl, You make great picks and advice, but in this case -- Noobie might want to think about it differently. Since this is an upgrade, budget might not be as important or rigid as getting "just the right" stone.

Noobie, maybe thinking through what you really want after this series of eliminations will narrow your choices. I've gone throught this recently. I keep putting in search criteria that come up with a semi-wide range of stones. As I comb through them tho, I keep eliminating those that have clarity that I don't want to pay extra for and color that I really don't want to go down to, etc. I've found that as I look at what's available, it has helped me make the price quality tradeoffs, and my real criteria is pretty narrow.

I personally don't think it is worth paying extra for VS2 if you find eye-clean SI1. VS2 is simply "safer". However, I think color is personal, and if her current stone is icy-white, you might want to say in the whiter range so that comparisons are not negative. In that case, I'd check on the inclusions of #1 & 2. They may not be desirable, but then again, they may not be anything you would ever see, and the colors are higher.

 

[valeria101]

Just one more way to view things, I guess...

This should not be a very difficult decission, just because the stones seem to be of very close (even indistiguishable to you, as you mention in the first post) cut quality. beyond it, #1 should be the whitest, and #7 the biggest. All ten could be eye clean, although I would not pretend there is NO difference between a VS2 and an SI2.

ALso, while neighboring color grades may be hard to tell apart, (be them G vesrus H, or H versus I) two of these grades could get to mean something, visually. I suspect you may find the color difference between F and H color to be an issue. Is it so ? It may be worth giving it a try while checking wether stone #1 appears eye clean or not...

 

[noobie]

phoenixgirl,




I know it seems like my budget is all over the place and I'll tell you why. I was hoping to keep the whole ring less than 15K, but keeping to 11 or 12 would be nice. I figure the two side stones will cost 3 to 4K depending on grade and the setting another thousand.




When we first started to look I suggested three ideas, a three stone with 3 equal size .9 or 1 carat stones, a 1.75 or 2 carat solitaire or a 3 stone with a larger center and smaller sides. I liked the 3 x 1 carat ring, but a 2 carat solitaire is always stunning. She chose the 3 stone with smaller sides since she wanted what she felt to be a more practical everyday ring and she didn't care for the 3 equal stones. We both didn't like a 1.75 stone with .7 on each side. Too much bling for us, but it was magnificent. I didn't argue since I figured the other two options were more expensive

.




Fortunately budget is not the overiding concern. I don't buy jewellery like this very often anyways.




It sounds like I should be going after an SI1 with good color and maybe a VS2 at a good price. It seems like an SI1 F/G is a sweet spot in a diamond because I can't seem to find too many of them in a 1.25 carat range.




Thanks to all for input

 

[noobie]

Ok, based on your help I've eliminated 4,5,9,10.




6 and 8 are in reserve, 7 is on hold for someone else, 3 if eye clean and I decide to go H color.




I'm checking on 1,2 for eye clean. It seems like slim pickings in the 1.25 C range. I've contacted a couple of the recommended vendors here to help me find my stones.




Another question for you guys is how many vendors do you use at one time to help you look for stones. It seems like you would get more choices with more vendors, but I do want to be reasonable and respectful of their time.




Thanks

 

[hoorray]

I think it is reasonable and fair to work with several at once as long as you are reasonable about what you ask from them, and they truly have a chance at your business. If you are just playing one off against another to get a lower price, that isn't great. But, this is an expensive purchase, and you have to look after your own interests. Besides, to get the widest choice, you need to work with several.