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Boogie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
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Hi, I am Boogie and you may refer to the following original link about the experience of my engagement ring.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-help-me.127762/

We have finally decided to return the engagement ring and start the process of finding a new one. Need your opinion on the following:-

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.69-7.72x4.82mm
Carat Weight: 1.75 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3-5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Additional Inscription: H&A

Or the one from Blue Nile

[url=http://hk.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01518667]http://hk.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01518667

Thanks so much for your advice![/URL]
 
I am just learning how to use the HCA as a reject tool and here are what I found on your stones

diamond 1
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight: Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.7 - Excellent
within TIC range

diamond 2 (BN)
Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Fair
Spreador diameter for weight: Very Good
Total Visual Performance 5.1 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

Base on these information, I believe diamond 1 has better performance than diamond 2.
 
yap, no contest between the 2. Definitely the first one. Can you get an Idealscope/ASET image for it and post it here?
 
Date: 10/27/2009 12:52:45 AM
Author:Boogie
Hi, I am Boogie and you may refer to the following original link about the experience of my engagement ring.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-help-me.127762/

We have finally decided to return the engagement ring and start the process of finding a new one. Need your opinion on the following:-

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.69-7.72x4.82mm
Carat Weight: 1.75 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3-5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Additional Inscription: H&A

Or the one from Blue Nile

[url=http://hk.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01518667]http://hk.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01518667

Thanks so much for your advice!
Click to expand...



Hi Boogie,

You have made a good decision I think in returning the original diamond.

The first stone looks like the best one but it is a bit deep....Here is a chart you can use as a guide which might be helpful. Avoid the second diamond, it is what we call here a steep deep - it will show light leakage and not sparkle as well as it should do.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!



As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.



From expert John Pollard.



With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

Also with the first diamond it says h&a but without images of both hearts and arrows ( which BN won't provide) we have no way of knowing whether the diamond is in fact a h&a diamond). If this doesn't matter to you then thats fine with the Signature Ideals but it is something I wanted to point out.



[/URL]
 
Stitch, Stone Cold 11 & Lorelei, thanks so much for your advice.

The 1st diamond was reserved and the potential buyer will probably buy it
8.gif
But the jeweller said he will find something new for me to consider.

I shall definitely post the information of something he will find for me. Because I am very new to diamond, be honest I can''t quite understand all the technical terms mentioned
41.gif
but really appreciated your effort.
 
HCA is the Holloway Cut Adviser. Use as a first cut in stone selection, scores below 2 is worthy of further inspection. https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

ASET/IS is a scope that is used to judge light return. Good to have but not a lot of jewelers will have them. You can get a handheld version relatively cheaply compared to what you will be spending for the stone.

More on ASET/IS. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

And where to buy one. http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp
 
Date: 10/27/2009 6:07:47 AM
Author: Boogie
Stitch, Stone Cold 11 & Lorelei, thanks so much for your advice.

The 1st diamond was reserved and the potential buyer will probably buy it
8.gif
But the jeweller said he will find something new for me to consider.

I shall definitely post the information of something he will find for me. Because I am very new to diamond, be honest I can''t quite understand all the technical terms mentioned
41.gif
but really appreciated your effort.
Click to expand...
h&a = hearts and arrows, some diamonds can show an arrow pattern when viewed face up and a hearts pattern when viewed face down.

ASET = ASET image, used to judge light return

Idealscope image = used to judge light leakage

HCA = Holloway Cut Advisor, rejection tool - used to see which stones score below 2, these are then considered to be worth further evaluation
 
Stone Cold 11 & Lorelei, thanks for the information.

I have the 3rd and 4th stone from the jeweller.

3rd Stone

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.64-7.68x4.77mm
Carat Weight: 1.71 carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35.5%
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comment:
Internal graining is not shown
Surface graining is not shown

4th Stone

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: June 2009
Measurements: 7.80-7.82x4.87mm
Carat Weight: 1.81 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34.5%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2%
Pavillion Depth: 43.5%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comment: Additional clouds are not shown

Actually the jeweller sent me copies of the GIA certs but I don''t know how to post them here. I would be appreciated if you would give me some comments on the stones based on the information I provided. Many thanks!
 
Date: 10/27/2009 10:53:05 PM
Author: Boogie
Stone Cold 11 & Lorelei, thanks for the information.

I have the 3rd and 4th stone from the jeweller.

3rd Stone

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.64-7.68x4.77mm
Carat Weight: 1.71 carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35.5%
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comment:
Internal graining is not shown
Surface graining is not shown

4th Stone

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: June 2009
Measurements: 7.80-7.82x4.87mm
Carat Weight: 1.81 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34.5%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2%
Pavillion Depth: 43.5%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comment: Additional clouds are not shown

Actually the jeweller sent me copies of the GIA certs but I don''t know how to post them here. I would be appreciated if you would give me some comments on the stones based on the information I provided. Many thanks!
Click to expand...

Stone 1

Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.6 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right


Stone 2

Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.3 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right
 
Boogie


I take it that your budget is within the 20K. What do you think about this one?

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.78 - 7.82 x 4.80 mm

Carat Weight: 1.79 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 61.5%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 45%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.
Additional Inscription: [MAPLE LEAF OUTLINE SYMBOL] H&A

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.7 - Excellent within TIC range

I don't see the cert. So I don't know what kind of inclusion it has
 
Stitch, thanks so much for your information.

Actually the price for the 4 stones which I mentioned here is about the same. It seems that the 1st stone i.e. 1.75 Carat F VS1 3EX is the best by far. But it was reserved by someone already.
8.gif


Do you mind telling me how much will this stone cost? Any information of the vendor? Many thanks for your advice.
 
Date: 10/28/2009 1:09:07 AM
Author: Boogie
Stitch, thanks so much for your information.

Actually the price for the 4 stones which I mentioned here is about the same. It seems that the 1st stone i.e. 1.75 Carat F VS1 3EX is the best by far. But it was reserved by someone already.
8.gif


Do you mind telling me how much will this stone cost? Any information of the vendor? Many thanks for your advice.
Click to expand...
The stone that I post is from Union Diamond that I found through PS >> F VS1 1.79 This is the information that u can call in for this stone

Regular Price: $19451
Wire Transfer Price: $18884

Questions? Ordering by phone?
Please call 800-319-9155 or email [email protected]
and mention: ADEQQL
 
This vs1 is listed on PS as $18930

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1231201.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

You can ask JA for Ideal Scope Image.

This vs1 is listed on PS as $ 19270

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1241261.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.4 - Excellent within TIC range

You can ask JA for Ideal Scope Image.
 
Date: 10/28/2009 1:09:07 AM
Author: Boogie
Stitch, thanks so much for your information.

Actually the price for the 4 stones which I mentioned here is about the same. It seems that the 1st stone i.e. 1.75 Carat F VS1 3EX is the best by far. But it was reserved by someone already.
8.gif


Do you mind telling me how much will this stone cost? Any information of the vendor? Many thanks for your advice.
Click to expand...

Also If you drop to G, you can get VVS2

http://www.idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=23557739&shape=&pricefrom=1&priceto=500000&ca

It is listed on PS at $19384

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent within TIC range
 
Stitch, thanks so much for providing alot of choices for me. The local jeweller will send me some more to consider. Will definitely need your advice again. I am still thinking if I should buy from the local vendor or do the online purchase. I don''t have any experience for online purchase.
20.gif
 
#3 and #4 stone could be good if the lower half is large enough, in the 80s to be safe, but that will definitely need an IS/ASET image to confirm.
 
Stone Cold 11, I can give you some more information (Star Length and Lower Half) on the 3rd and 4th stone.

3rd Stone - 1.71 E VS1

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.64-7.68x4.77mm
Carat Weight: 1.71 carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35.5%
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Star length : 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comment:
Internal graining is not shown
Surface graining is not shown

4th Stone - 1.81 F VS2

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: June 2009
Measurements: 7.80-7.82x4.87mm
Carat Weight: 1.81 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34.5%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 41.2%
Pavillion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comment: Additional clouds are not shown

I am not sure if the additional information can help.

Besides, I have the 5th one to share. Sorry for the long post but really need the professional advice here.

5th Stone - 1.85 F VS2

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: October 2009
Measurements: 7.80-7.83x4.86mm
Carat Weight: 1.85 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.2%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 40.6%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comment: Additional clouds are not shown

I have done the HCA test by myself and the result is Excellent and the Total Visual Performance is 1.4. I understand 0-2 is excellent but within this range, does the higher score means better or vice versa?

I have already ruled out the 2nd Stone. For the remaining 4 stone, do you still think that the 2nd stone is the best by far? For the clarity, is the difference of VS1 and VS2 a big deal?

I really appreciate any input. Thanks alot!
 
I would prefer the last diamond Boogie, there is a chance of leakage with the others ( longer lower halves does not always save a diamond from leakage and make them ' safe') and without an Idealscope image I would be wary.

Also when you say professional advice, no one who has posted on this thread is a professional, we are just consumers. I just wanted to point this out as I don't want you to be mislead.

No a higher HCA score does not mean better, the HCA is a rejection tool not used for selection. The aim is to score below 2 then evaluate from there with Idealscope or ASET images for final selection. For ring stones a score between 1 and 2 is normally the ' sweet spot' and in fact some diamonds which score between 2 and 3 can still be acceptable providing they have top symmetry and you have images of these diamonds, but these need careful evaluation.
 
#3 looks promising.

#5 also is promising. For this stone, there might be a darkening of the stone if you viewed the stone less than 1 foot away due to obstruction issue if it is not well cut, check it out closely.

VS2 level should be eye-clean most of the time. Since you get to see the stone, check it out in detail.
 
Thanks Lorelei. You said you prefer the last one. You mean the 5th stone, right? Sorry as there are too many stone here and I just want to make it clear.
5.gif


Thanks for letting me know that all of you are customers here and not professional. I know you are saying this because you don''t want to mislead me. But you guys are very knowledgable in diamond and I really appreciate all the advice. The vendor''s advice can be very bias sometime. I just want some netural advice and all of you are very helpful to me.

Thanks again for your advice.
 
Date: 10/28/2009 6:27:35 AM
Author: Boogie
Thanks Lorelei. You said you prefer the last one. You mean the 5th stone, right? Sorry as there are too many stone here and I just want to make it clear.
5.gif


Thanks for letting me know that all of you are customers here and not professional. I know you are saying this because you don't want to mislead me. But you guys are very knowledgable in diamond and I really appreciate all the advice. The vendor's advice can be very bias sometime. I just want some netural advice and all of you are very helpful to me.

Thanks again for your advice.
Click to expand...
Yes the last diamond Boogie, sorry I should have made that clearer. It could be a lovely diamond and I doubt with that proportion configuration there will be any issues with it, an Idealscope image would be good to make sure as with any diamond.

Glad to be of help to you, I know sometimes the lines can be a bit blurred between professional and consumer so I just wanted to make sure you knew where the advice given was coming from so you can think about the advice offered, the experience of the person/s giving it and work out what makes sense to you.
 
Thanks alot, Stone Cold 11. Then I should be aware when I see the 5th Stone. But I am not sure if I can tell the darkness. Any hint?

I will meet the vendor to see the stone. As mentioned, the 2nd stone was reserved but if it can be released for me. Do you think the 2nd one is better than the 3rd and 5th one. Sorry for too many questions!

2nd Stone - 1.75 F VS1

Round Brilliant
GIA Cert: Sept 2009
Measurements: 7.69-7.72x4.82mm
Carat Weight: 1.75 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 55%
Crown Angle: 35%
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8%
Pavillion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3-5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Additional Inscription: H&A
 
Date: 10/28/2009 6:37:41 AM
Author: Boogie
Thanks alot, Stone Cold 11. Then I should be aware when I see the 5th Stone. But I am not sure if I can tell the darkness. Any hint?
Click to expand...
This proportion configuration of the fifth diamond is not one where any darkness or obstruction is usually expected so I wouldn't worry too much. You can hold the stone close to you to see if it darkens a bit but I don't think you will have a problem. Obstruction is normally seen with shallower pavilion angles or what we call the shallow shallow combos ( crown angle 34 or less along with a pavilion angle of 40.6 or less).

The last diamond you posted above is a bit deep at 62.6% and also an Idealscope image would be useful to check out that angle combo.
 
Lorelei and Stone Cold 11, thanks so much. As the 2nd and 5th stone cost almost the same, I will go to the vendor to see which one I like more. Thanks so much for the valuable advise. I did not know there would be a lot of difference and issue even if the stones have the same ranking (3 Excellent). I really appreciate your affort at helping me to choose.
 
Good luck. :)
 
Date: 10/28/2009 11:11:17 PM
Author: Boogie
Lorelei and Stone Cold 11, thanks so much. As the 2nd and 5th stone cost almost the same, I will go to the vendor to see which one I like more. Thanks so much for the valuable advise. I did not know there would be a lot of difference and issue even if the stones have the same ranking (3 Excellent). I really appreciate your affort at helping me to choose.
Click to expand...
Let us know how you get on.
 
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