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Please Help Me on What To Do with this diamond I got from Whiteflash

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walay

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
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With lots of reading on this site, I purchased this diamond
from Whiteflash, and since I live almost right next to GIA lab in San Diego, I sent it to them the same day I received the diamond, and the result comes out different, I''m sending it to GemEx next just to see.

Right now I''m very concerned with findings from GIA lab, and I feel I''m paying extra money for a ACA(excellent cut) diamond that is not ACA(excellent cut), and I''m afraid the very thin-thin girdle might cause the diamond to damage more easily, and I really want it to last a lifetime. and I''m also not sure who is right? I lean towards GIA because they are a reputable Lab, but so is AGS, and I don''t see why Whitflash would give out a wrong info.

If I had known the culet is very thin to thin, I would not purchase it in the first place, however since I have already spent the money on reports and s/h to GemEx, by returning this to white flash I would lose $200 on a $860 diamond, so at this point I''m pretty frustrate and not sure what to do.

Please help and let me know what you guys think and what you would do?

At this point, I''m gonna see what the GemEx report shows, if its great then I might as well keep it, and hope it never chip, but I just feel cheated for spending extra on a supposedly ACA diamond(Excellent Cut), and if it turns out bad then I''ll just lose around $200 and hope better for the next time.

In summary, according to Gemologist I talked to at GIA, the Girdle is Very Thin to Thin which is easy to break, and some facets on the top half of the diamond have angle that are slightly off, but according to to Whiteflash, I should have a Thin to Medium Girdle, and a ACA cut grade(excellent) cut diamond.

Here are the results.

AGS/WhiteFlash:
Cut: AGS Ideal 0
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.412
. Depth %: 59.6
. Table %: 56.7
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 14.9
. Star : 56
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 4.85-4.89X2.91
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

GIA:
Cut: Very Good
. Shape: Round Brilliant
. Carat: 0.41
. Depth %: 59.8
. Table %: 57
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 55
. Pavilion Angle: 40.8
. Pavilion %: 43
. Lower Girdle %: 75
. Girdle: Very Thin to Thin
. Measurements: 4.85-4.89X2.91
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: excellent
. Symmetry: excellent
. Culet: none
. Fluorescence: None
 
Wow...GIA vs. AGS

Do you love the diamond by looks alone? Both are reputable labs, but the real question is, Do you love it?

If is a beautiful diamond, I would just keep it. If it''s going to bother you, return it and swallow that $200.

WF has strict parameters for judging ACAs, so you have both AGS and WF saying that the diamond is an ideal cut, firecracker diamond. I''d tend to trust their opinion. Perhaps you can post pics?
 
I am kind of puzzled as to why you sent an AGS stone to be regraded by GIA particularly since that money could have gone to buying a little larger stone.

But I don''t know what to think about the girdle discrepancy. We''ve seen some color grading issues with AGS before, but this is the first time the cut was called into question that I can recall on here.

How is the stone going to be set?
 
Why are you not happy with the diamond? Does the performance of the diamond seem lacking? Is it not as fiery or sparkly as you had hoped? If you''re not happy with the diamond, you should return it-it''s as simple as that. Are you still within the return period?

I personally would not have spent around 25% of the cost of the diamond getting an already certified diamond certified again, but that''s already done, so I think you should just forget you spent that $200 and go from there.
 
I''m wondering if it got a "very good" as opposed to "excellent" because GIA said "very thin girdle".
Am surprised at the discrepancy though.
 
I wanted to point out that you should definitely not send it to GemEx and spend even more money on it if you''re not even sure you''re going to keep it.

Also, have you looked up the angles of the stone to see if it falls into ideal or excellent cut territory? Why was it not graded excellent by GIA? Do you know?
 
well, GIA rounds the angles and AGS gives exact numbers so i'm not surprised that some of the info would be different. personally, I'd go with AGS over GIA. I guess I too don't really understand why you would pay to send it to GIA. labs and appraisers don't always agree. I just wouldn't have even bothered spending the money on a regrade on an $860 stone. If you are unhappy, return it or exchange it. But again, i personally would trust the AGS and WF grading.

how are you planning on setting it? just get insurance and submit the AGS cert and if anything does happen the insurance company will replace or cash out for what AGS says you've got.
 
Jelly: I do like the look of the stone, but I'm worried about the girdle thickness which makes it more easy to chip, and I also expected a ACA diamond to have a excellent cut grade. I thought thats why I paid for a ACA rated diamond.


diamondseeker2006: I figure a local appraiser costs $130, GIA is $50, all I wanted to know is if this is the exact diamond I purchased, and if it matches the description I paid for. If I purchased a larger diamond, I still will spend extra money to get the same things done, but the final cost would be higher.

thing2of2: I do like the look of the diamond. But I'm not happy that I might be paying extra for an ACA diamond that is not ACA, because I thought ACA would mean Excellent cut. I'm also very afraid that a very thin to thin girdle means the diamond can be easily chipped, I do want it to last a lifetime. Actually, only $50 to get GIA to look at it, $50 for GemEx, $50 for s/h to GemEx another $50 charged by Whiteflash for s/h if I return it.

thing2of2: I sent it already without thinking too much....I figure if the report is good, then I will keep it, if not then I will return it.

Ya, 25% the cost of diamond...hence I'm frustrated, right now I'm hoping for a good result from GemEx so I can keep it.
 
I am confused as to why you would spend $200 on an $800 stone. What made you think you needed a confirmation of an AGS report? If you had some suspicions about it why didn''t you just return it and look for something else? whiteflash has a return policy. But I wouldn''t expect WF to question the grading lab unless something was noticably off.
 
I am confused as to why you would spend $200 on an $800 stone. What made you think you needed a confirmation of an AGS report? If you had some suspicions about it why didn''t you just return it and look for something else? whiteflash has a return policy. But I wouldn''t expect WF to question the grading lab unless something was noticably off.

swingirl: Because I want to find a perfect $800 stone(and on WF''s site, that stone looks perfect on paper)if I spend $1000 on stone, then it would come out to $1200 with all that test. This is the first time I spent so much and buy a diamond online, I don''t know how to look at them....and a appraiser cost around $150 per session, GIA is only $50. I just want to make sure I got what I paid for.
 
Then why would you be out $200 to send the stone back if the GIA report was $50?

ETA: I see the other costs now. I think it is ridiculous to send it to GemEx, too. Either keep it or return it, but spending the extra to send it to Gem Ex makes no sense to me.
 
Whats wrong with Sending it to GemEx to see how the diamond performs?
I thought it would give me more data to let me make my final decision.
 
The stone has a "0" for light performance already. There''s no reason to send it to GemEx.
 
Did you send it to the GIA lab for a grading report or to a GIA trained gemologist? If you read the Sarin Report from WF, the girdle is described as thin/thin. You need to discuss this with WF directlly and return the diamond if you are concerned.
 
"The stone has a "0" for light performance already. There's no reason to send it to GemEx."
-_-|||....i didn't know that...I thought they would provide a test of real world light/brilliance/shineness.

risingsun: I sent it to the GIA lab for a grading report.


So now my biggest concern is why GIA said the girdle is very thin-thin vs. WF said its thin-medium...should I be concerned of chip/breakage? It a good diamond, I really like the look of it...but I don't want it to chip...my gf...always bump into stuff.....and also a good cut does not cost the same as a excellent cut. But I paid for a excellent cut(ACA) diamond.

I asked GIA gemologist why it was graded a very good cut instead of excellent cut, he said its because of the very thin girdle and some of the facet on the top part of diamond have angles that are slightly off.
 
Walay,
Sending the stone to all these labs seems quite silly to alot of us here.

You bought an ACA from WF cause it is a top level stone. Just cause GIA doesn''t agree with one aspect does not mean it is not an excellent stone. In most cases AGS is more stringent than GIA.
With an ACA you have Brian the Cutter''s seal of approval (he has been doing this a VERY long time), AGS''s light performance approval, as well as a lifetime trade up if you ever want to change the stone!

You have more than enough data to decide form the papers if you like the stone. More importantly you have your eyes. You have gotten to see it and decide if it is appealing to you. That is the most important part about buying a stone is if YOU like it.
Get insurance so IF something happens with the girdle it is covered, stop wasting any more money on a $860 stone and just enjoy it!
 
KtIceRN: You are right......I thought by doing all that, I can make sure I got the best of what I can get.
 
I agree with KT, get insurance and enjoy this beautiful stone.
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Hi Walay,

I recall reading a PS threads explaining that GIA and AGSL measures girdles differently....so I did a search and found this post by JohnQuixote which may answer your questions about the girdle:

Take a look at this https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/girdles.66614/, see John''s 5th post (about 1/2 way down the first page) on 8/3/2007 1:10:06 PM.

Basically, it looks like AGSL and GIA judge thickness differently - this is why an AGSL thin can be a GIA vthin.

Also, another thread did confirm that a GIA vthin girdle can bump an otherwise EX diamond down to a VG.

Hope this helps!
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Date: 3/3/2008 11:29:21 PM
Author: walay
Whats wrong with Sending it to GemEx to see how the diamond performs?
I thought it would give me more data to let me make my final decision.
Click to expand...
Waley,
I know you are kind of getting a serve here, so all I''m gonna say is your eyes are a Much better judge of how this diamond performs than any kinda technology/report can ever be!
You said you already had it in your posession - I personally would''ve looked at it in varying ligting conditions, rather than spend decent money to have Gemex tell me this.
just my 0.02c - i hope you decider soon what you would like to do
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I'm all for consumers sending diamonds to labs after they get them for QC!
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But- myself I just don't care that much. When I buy a diamond from WF, I'm just going to enjoy it- end of story!

I've seen the diamonds that were available to "average" consumers in the '80's and they did not sparkle like these today- I'm sorry but they didn't. Maybe it's just me but I can't get into all these arcane details- that's what I'm paying a trusted vendor for. Said trusted vendor will have sent the diamond to the best lab. There is really nothing else I want to do.
 
I''d rather see you trade-in the diamond and apply the $100 for GemEx toward the next stone!
 
I think the real issue here is not the stone but rather trusting the on-line vendor and purchasing from the net.

I understand wanting "to be sure" that the stone you paid for IS the stone and all this info. (labs, specificities of diamond characteristics, etc.) can

be scary and overwhelming and incomprehensible.

Most PS''ers are very experienced consumers on the net and have trusted their hard earned $$ with on-line vendors so that is why many are questioning you.

Also, a $1,000 stone or $100,000 should not cloud the issue; you want what you paid for and I understand that completely since I don''t have a personal relationship

with Brian or the others in this virtual diamond world.

So let''s chalk it up to newbie-itis.

If you love the stone then figure out how to get it set so it will less likely chip.

Or, send it back and get something else, period.

No big deal but be happy with what you settle on so you can sleep at night.
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I would never have thought of sending my diamond to another lab to be graded again. I was happy to take the word of the countless other Whiteflash customers who were thrilled with their purchase.

Have you spoken to anyone from WF yet?
 
Jeanne61: Thank you for that info, its great, and clears up my doubts.

lisa1.01fvs1: You are right, my first time buying online, and I do have trust issue with online retailers selling diamond, and it comes from knowing that even some B&M stores can''t be trusted.

Thank you for all your help, after reading info provided by Jeanne61, I know that I''m just been too paranoid. And after reading your post defending WF, I think if I still don''t trust them...there are probably no other dealer to trust:D As for GemEx, this is the 1st time, and is nice/cool to see a report online for my diamond:) I''ll think of I spent $200 for a lesson learned and I get a GIA report and a cool online view of my diamond with it..actually its okay:D
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However, another issues arose last night...after I finish my tax return, there would be some extra budget that I can put part of it towards the diamond...and I can get a bigger one with that budget-_-

the reason for such a small diamond is because I had a smaller budget, and my gf have a really small hand.....her ring size is 4.5...and a big diamond on her small hand to me would look out of place...I''m a designer, I like everything to look proportionate.....but again she might be really happy with a bigger diamond sticking out on hand...she said she don''t need a big diamond, she also knows I''m tight on budget...but now I have that budget...maybe she do like a bigger one....saaaaa~cow
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"I would never have thought of sending my diamond to another lab to be graded again. I was happy to take the word of the countless other Whiteflash customers who were thrilled with their purchase.

Have you spoken to anyone from WF yet?"

I wouldn't thought about it...I would send it to a appraiser...but I pass by the GIA lab everyday to/from work...thinking maybe i can take a class there or going in there someday...wasn't much trouble...and was interesting experience...I've never been to a such secure area before.....

I did talk to a nice lady to place the order.
 
I meant did you speak to anyone from WF regarding your concerns about the diamond? I know they are very friendly and will want to work with you to sort this out.
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In my opinion, a size 4.5 finger isn''t that small, so I say go for a bigger diamond for sure. You''re already not super happy with the diamond you have now and you now have the money for a bigger diamond. I promise you that your girlfriend won''t mind having a bigger diamond one bit. And a bigger diamond certainly won''t look out of proportion on her finger.
 
Thanks all for your hlep~
I will most likely get exchange this small to a bigger one:D
although still interesting for me to see that an ACA at WF didn't get a excellent cut grading at GIA....you would think since AGS judge cut more detailed..and GIA is not...its should be a automatic excellent at gia...:D
i understand how the 2 labs test differently...but still interesting:)

I will talk to a WF rep tomorrow.

and for the money I spent, its a good lesson learned, and I get some cool reports and experiences:D
 
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