Platinum verses Gold: price and labor???

[bgray]

I have purchased several items from a jeweler that I love and feel comfortable with. There is a pair of earrings that i want that are mostly gold with a little platinum disc that holds a small number of small round diamonds as part of the design. I would like the earrings to be done custom--so made exactly as they are designed except another part of the earring to be platinum so that the earring goes from about 85% gold to about 70% gold and 30% platinum. I am wondering how this would affect the price of the earrings? Are the prices of platinum and gold pretty close these days? Are there any additional labor costs with platinum? Remember the diamond weight and entire design remain exactly the same. (There are three distinct pieces that are attached to make the whole. Two gold and one (tiny) platinum. The custom pair would go to one gold -largest piece--and two [platinum). Hope this makes sense.

 

[Diamond Explorer]

There a few factors that increase the costs of platinum jewelry over gold, even when the metals are trading pretty close to each other per oz. Platinum has a higher specific gravity than gold, requiring more weight of platinum to make the same volume of material. Also, platinum is generally higher purity than gold, increasing the amount of pure metal in a piece relative to gold. Platinum can also be more difficult to work with than gold, it requires higher temperatures to work and additional expertise beyond that of a gold and silver smith. These added costs are not huge with prices where they are now, but you should still expect to pay quite a bit more for platinum vs. gold.

 

[bgray]

thanks--i appreciate the information

 

[bgray]

Diamond Explorer: any idea on how much more something might be in platinum than in gold-?

 

[Moh 10]

I was just in a Jewelry store which is an authorized Gelin Abaci dealer.

He called Gelin Abaci for quotes on one of their most simple tension settings (TR-044) with no side stones.

18K gold was $1800.
Platinum was $3500.

This was on a day when the metal prices were.
Gold $938 oz.
Plat $1193 oz.

That''s absurd.
Clearly GA is gouging.

 

[bgray]

interesting--i think there is a little gouging via platinum mystique..........i would have guyessed 1800 vs 2800

 

[Moh 10]

Yes it is absurd.

Look how simple the ring is.
I realize 18K gold is 75% gold and plat is 95% plat, and plat is heavier so requires more metal to get the same volume.

But STILL! . . .

. . . even if bench labor is more difficult in platinum, look now little bench labor would be involved in this ring.
There are no side stones, pave, carving or miligrain work.

Cast the sucker.
Cut two groves for the stone.
Polish.
Pull open.
Insert stone, and let go.

Are you telling me these 5 steps take longer enough to do with platinum compared to gold to justify doubling the price when platinum is only 12% more expensive than gold?

 

[bgray]

yes that is absurd--

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/29/2009 7:59:40 PM
Author: Moh 10
Yes it is absurd.


Look how simple the ring is.

I realize 18K gold is 75% gold and plat is 95% plat, and plat is heavier so requires more metal to get the same volume.


But STILL! . . .

. . . even if bench labor is more difficult in platinum, look now little bench labor would be involved in this ring.

There are no side stones, pave, carving or miligrain work.


Cast the sucker.

Cut two groves for the stone.

Polish.

Pull open.

Insert stone, and let go.


Are you telling me these 5 steps take longer enough to do with platinum compared to gold to justify doubling the price when platinum is only 12% more expensive than gold?

thousands of hours in RD to find alloys that will work
thousands of hours to find the proper heat treating to make it spring.
thousands of hours to refine the manufacturing process.
The added labor of working with a heat treated metal
The cost of an oxygen free heat treat oven, and the gas to purge it

plat is a soft and malleable metal to make a spring out of it is non-trivial with 5% additives.

Gold is easier because you can add 25% other materials to it instead of 5%
There are many recipes for springy gold out there but not for plat that I have found because anyone who spends the huge amount of time and money to develop one is going to keep it proprietary.

 

[stone-cold11]

yap, definitely not just a simple cast. Probably involved stamping, work hardening, etc. to make the spring.

 

[TheDoctor]

Cost per pound of a Ferrari vs cost per pound of a Focus.
It''s seldom about material weight. It''s about the manufacturing cost.
If it were simple, people would be making their own earrings in their kitchens.

If you supplied the company manufacturing the jewellery with an adequate amount of gold and platinum, they would still charge you a large amount of money to make the jewellery. The overhead costs of operating a jewellery manufacturing business are staggering. Material costs are usually only a portion of what you are charged for.
Just like an auto repair business...where you pay over $100.00 per hour to have someone service your car.
Just my two bits....

 

[bgray]

Date: 6/29/2009 8:49:03 PM
Author: TheDoctor
Cost per pound of a Ferrari vs cost per pound of a Focus.

It''s seldom about material weight. It''s about the manufacturing cost.

If it were simple, people would be making their own earrings in their kitchens.


If you supplied the company manufacturing the jewellery with an adequate amount of gold and platinum, they would still charge you a large amount of money to make the jewellery. The overhead costs of operating a jewellery manufacturing business are staggering. Material costs are usually only a portion of what you are charged for.

Just like an auto repair business...where you pay over $100.00 per hour to have someone service your car.

Just my two bits....

i wasnt dismissing the cost of time and expertise just wondering how much more the exact same item would cost in plat vs gold

 

[strmrdr]

getting back to the original post.

It would depend.
If it was all gold and it could be cast in one piece then making it from handmade parts is going to a lot more expensive.
If it is made from 2 cast pieces then the price would be between the 2.
There are 2 many variables to say for sure.

 

[bootsiekin]

I believe that platinum is simply not as abundant in the earth as gold is, and/or in addition is more difficult/costly to separate from other ores than gold is, which would make its initial cost more since it is more labor-intensive to isolate.

 

[Diamond Explorer]

Date: 6/29/2009 7:43:13 PM
Author: bgray
Diamond Explorer: any idea on how much more something might be in platinum than in gold-?

When determining the amount of metal a given design takes to cast a given design, the specific gravity is used to multiply the weight of the wax to find the needed amount of metal. Platinum is 21.4 and 18K gold is 15.5, this means that is 38% more metal weight for the same design. Now also figure the 75% percent purity of 18K gold, Thats %33 more pure material, with the alloying materials much less expensive in gold. Platinum is mostly pure and any alloying agents are also generally very precious in their own right. Now add the additional cost per ounce of the pure material. I saw the number 12%. Lets use that.

O.K. I think the parameters are set. Its late but this should be right.

Based on these numbers, a design in 18K gold which costs $1000 to make should cost about $2056 in platinum. ( $1000 x 1.38 x 1.33 x 1.12 = $2056 )

I must note that this does not take into account the fact that much of the price of the ring is in value added with labor and expertise in its manufacture. The whole is worth more the some of its parts, and this is especially true for jewelry. Jewelers and jewelry manufacturers add intrinsic value to the piece regardless of the material. And so they often don't price using the above method because it doesn't account for the many fixed costs associated with running any business operation.

I hope this helps to answer the question a bit, and that my numbers make sense.

 

[bgray]

i was told today it might be about $2000 more....................keep you posted

 

[Richard Sherwood]

For a long time the price of platinum jewelry was three, four and sometimes even five times as much as white gold.

Twice as much now is a fair price. It probably won''t last long.

 

[mommy-of-4-kids]

Do you expect the price of platinum to increase significantly if the economy improves? Is that the implication?

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/1/2009 1:39:20 AM
Author: mommy-of-4-kids
Do you expect the price of platinum to increase significantly if the economy improves? Is that the implication?

Especially when the automobile production picks up. Apparently a large amount is use in the cars.

 

[Diamond Explorer]

Date: 7/1/2009 4:02:31 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/1/2009 1:39:20 AM

Author: mommy-of-4-kids

Do you expect the price of platinum to increase significantly if the economy improves? Is that the implication?

Especially when the automobile production picks up. Apparently a large amount is use in the cars.

Not so sure about industrial demand driving prices platinum prices up any time soon. Speculation on the other hand, is a totally different story. I believe auto makers have switched mostly from platinum to palladium in catalytic converters. Research use is down too. I have friends that work in a labs, and use of platinum is low, as you can use palladium in most reactions with nearly equal results. There are still a few very specialized industrial products that require platinum, but I would guess that the jewelry industry is the main consumer of platinum metal currently, and it should remain that way for the foreseeable future.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

"Do you expect the price of platinum to increase significantly if the economy improves? Is that the implication? " Mommy of 4 kids


I base my predictions on historical precedent.

Platinum has historically traded at about twice the price of gold.

Gold reached a high of about 980 an ounce in the spring of 2008. Platinum during that time reached a high of about 2200.

Gold is now at about 940 an ounce, while platinum is at 1190. This is a ratio of 1.25 to 1.00, while historically the ratio has been 2 to 1, or more.

Metals traditionally return to their previous highs and ratios, and surpass them. Especially in turbulent times such as these.

Jewelry manufacturing accounts for about half of platinum consumption in the world, while manufacturing (particularly in the automobile industry) accounts for the other half.

The consumer appetite for platinum has considerably increased. The China market in particular has dramatically increased. The automobile market shows signs of resurrecting in the next two to four years.

All this points to platinum returning to its former robust 2 to 1 ratio in comparison to gold. Possibly more.

(Silver's got a lot of room to move also, by the way.)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/1/2009 4:02:31 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/1/2009 1:39:20 AM

Author: mommy-of-4-kids

Do you expect the price of platinum to increase significantly if the economy improves? Is that the implication?

Especially when the automobile production picks up. Apparently a large amount is use in the cars.

if it does automobile production will not be the reason.
Very few new cars use it anymore.
The only ones that do is because the car company hasn''t had time/money to have that engine certified in the US to use the new designs.