pics of AGS 0 princess w/dark center-- advice appreciated

[Oaty]

Hey gang, after lurking a long while (and gaining some serious knowledge) it''s my turn to post it up for some advice. Here''s the deal: A month ago I purchased a 3-stone engagement setting from a reputable dealer with an AGS-0 princess center, ~1 ct, H-VVS2. Making a long story short and vague, the setting was made incorrectly so I sent it back for a redo. During that time I got some news that dictated a downsizing of the center stone to a ~.7 ct F-SI1, also an AGS-0. I received the new center stone in the re-made setting today and had a bit of a surprise when I cracked open the box.

As you can see, the center is dark. The original 1 ct stone didn''t remotely have this characteristic despite having very similar specs. I''m all for contrast brilliance, but it looks like the bottom falls out of this stone when viewed from multiple angles in moderate to bright indoor lighting.

The specs:

. Shape: square modified brilliant
. Color: F
. Clarity: SI1
. Measurements: 4.82-4.82X3.59
. Depth %: 74.5
. Table %: 68.8
. Crown Angle: 44.1
. Crown %: 13.5
. Pavilion Angle: 39.6
. Pavilion %: 58.5
. Girdle: Thin to Medium
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

 

[Oaty]

Here''s another:

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome Oaty!

Does the diamond do this in all lights?

 

[Oaty]

For reference, here''s the ASET:

 

[Oaty]

Lorelei, your reply was so quick it beat my ASET and IS images

Yes, it does it in all lighting conditions, but slightly less so in diffuse fluorescent light.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2008 4:07:10 AM
Author: Oaty
Lorelei, your reply was so quick it beat my ASET and IS images

Yes, it does it in all lighting conditions, but slightly less so in diffuse fluorescent light.

LOL!!!

Did this diamond come from one of the PS vendors?

 

[Oaty]

Sure did, and so far I''ve been real happy with the customer service.

But I''m at a loss as to what to do next. We head to Hawaii in 13 days where I''m planning to pop the question (if she lurks here I''m busted!) and I don''t want to be rushing this excellent vendor if this is a normal characteristic. I''ve evaluated 4 loose AGS-0 princess stones with my own eyes, and NONE have exhibited this characteristic. I purchased this stone sight-unseen and things might have been different had I given myself a chance to look at it.

Suggestions?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2008 4:15:21 AM
Author: Oaty
Sure did, and so far I've been real happy with the customer service.

But I'm at a loss as to what to do next. We head to Hawaii in 13 days where I'm planning to pop the question (if she lurks here I'm busted!) and I don't want to be rushing this excellent vendor if this is a normal characteristic. I've evaluated 4 loose AGS-0 princess stones with my own eyes, and NONE have exhibited this characteristic. I purchased this stone sight-unseen and things might have been different had I given myself a chance to look at it.

Suggestions?

Ok what I would do is this. As soon as you can, contact your rep there, I can tell which vendor it is. Explain to them what you have said here and that you are unsure of the behaviour of this particular stone and see what they suggest bearing in mind your time constraints. I know they would want you to be completely happy so talk to them and see what they advise! It could be what you are seeing can happen but they will be very expert with how these diamonds should look and will help you accordingly.
Nice ASET by the way!

 

[Oaty]

That''s what I plan to do in about 6 hours

I''m only going on what I''ve seen, and I''ve only seen 4 of these stones with my own eyes. The big question I have is how does this stone look to the trained eye?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2008 4:22:25 AM
Author: Oaty
That''s what I plan to do in about 6 hours

I''m only going on what I''ve seen, and I''ve only seen 4 of these stones with my own eyes. The big question I have is how does this stone look to the trained eye?

Hehe! You are way ahead of me!

Someone there might be familiar with this stone, but see what they recommend.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 11/5/2008 3:55:27 AM
Author:Oaty
Hey gang, after lurking a long while (and gaining some serious knowledge) it''s my turn to post it up for some advice. Here''s the deal: A month ago I purchased a 3-stone engagement setting from a reputable dealer with an AGS-0 princess center, ~1 ct, H-VVS2. Making a long story short and vague, the setting was made incorrectly so I sent it back for a redo. During that time I got some news that dictated a downsizing of the center stone to a ~.7 ct F-SI1, also an AGS-0. I received the new center stone in the re-made setting today and had a bit of a surprise when I cracked open the box.

As you can see, the center is dark. The original 1 ct stone didn''t remotely have this characteristic despite having very similar specs. I''m all for contrast brilliance, but it looks like the bottom falls out of this stone when viewed from multiple angles in moderate to bright indoor lighting.

The specs:

. Shape: square modified brilliant
. Color: F
. Clarity: SI1
. Measurements: 4.82-4.82X3.59
. Depth %: 74.5
. Table %: 68.8
. Crown Angle: 44.1
. Crown %: 13.5
. Pavilion Angle: 39.6
. Pavilion %: 58.5
. Girdle: Thin to Medium
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

please do not look at diamonds in very bright and diretc sunlight.

search the many threads here about it and stop panicing.

 

[denverappraiser]

Call your sales rep and talk to them about it. I’m with Garry in guessing that the problem probably has more to do with your lighting than with your stone but the effect seems to be that you don’t like it. That’s a bad thing. 13 days is probably enough that they can swap it out for another but you will need to act quickly if you want them to do anything.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Oaty]

please do not look at diamonds in very bright and diretc sunlight

The diamond has yet to be evaluated in direct sunlight-- all images were taken under normal incandescent lighting.

search the many threads here about it and stop panicing.

I always search extensively before I post what might be redundant questions.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Oaty,

Have you made any progress yet?

 

[Oaty]

Date: 11/5/2008 7:36:21 AM
Author: denverappraiser


Call your sales rep and talk to them about it. I’m with Garry in guessing that the problem probably has more to do with your lighting than with your stone but the effect seems to be that you don’t like it. That’s a bad thing. 13 days is probably enough that they can swap it out for another but you will need to act quickly if you want them to do anything.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Thanks for the input Neil. I work in high-end home furnishings and a ton of my time is spent dealing with the issue of customer perception (or lack thereof) after the sale, which is why I was hesitant to bring this up in the first place.

What I''m trying to figure out is if this is an issue of customer perception or actual product performance. I can live with it if I''m the weak link here

 

[neatfreak]

I don''t think it''s the product, I think it''s the lighting...ideal cut stones don''t look good in every lighting condition unfortunately.

Also, a stupid question, but you aren''t looking directly down into the diamond with your head blocking the light source when you see it are you? Because then it might just be a reflection of the camera or your head...

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 11/5/2008 1:15:15 PM
Author: Oaty

Thanks for the input Neil. I work in high-end home furnishings and a ton of my time is spent dealing with the issue of customer perception (or lack thereof) after the sale, which is why I was hesitant to bring this up in the first place.

What I''m trying to figure out is if this is an issue of customer perception or actual product performance. I can live with it if I''m the weak link here

Obviously I can’t tell you what the stone looks like without seeing it and even then it''s a bit difficult to have a language to describe these things but, like I said, my bet is on the lighting, not the stone. Your picture appears to be taken in bright sunlight, which is both the worst lights for looking at diamonds and the worst light for taking pictures (of diamonds).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

go sit under a tree on a bright sunny day with the wind blowing if it is still dark its the stone.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 11/5/2008 3:01:25 PM
Author: strmrdr
go sit under a tree on a bright sunny day with the wind blowing if it is still dark its the stone.

I have to agree with Storm. Hard to say without seeing it, but that ASET does not appear to match the stone as the stone should be a fireball with that much red and green. Is there black gunk caught underneath the prongs that could be reflecting within the diamond? This is not what I would expect a normal AGS 0 princess cut to look like.

Wink

 

[Sharon101]

FWIW, both my Mum and I have princess stones. We hang out together alot so Im always looking at a princess either hers or mine!!!!!

Now, ours arent a top cut or anything so no comparisons there, but both of our diamonds do not present with a dark spot in the middle and are very pretty stones. If the premium cut means that the diamond shows up as dark centred in strong lighting then you have to access whether this is your usual lighting, climate etc.

What I can tell you is that a princess can look its worst if it gets dirty and or if the white gold in the setting looses it rhodeum plating.

My Mum just got her (newish) setting replated and the princess has been transformed in the process. As her setting got more grey, the diamond must have reflected this and started to look dull & much lower in colour. After the setting was whitened all the diamonds in the setting including the princess looked much whiter and more sparkly. No doubt the ring went through a thourough cleaning in the process. I cant stress enough how bad a princess can look when it is not clean, it can look entirely different. (My Mum started to think the diamond was really ugly even though now it looks like a white light show). So maybe give the ring a very good clean with alchohol rub and see if that helps.

In your case, I would check if the darkness is there in your ordinary lighting conditions that you live in, and go from there. If you live in a very sunny area then this diamond might always look dark both despit and because of its premium cut.

I do hear you that the other diamond did not present as dark, so we know that it might actually be this stone.

I am very interested in hearing the end result and have no doubts that you will resolve this delemour.

 

[JulieN]

I agree that your lighting looks very harsh/overly bright, and to check other lighting environs first.

 

[Doc_1]

Is it possible to post more photos from different angles/ different lighting?
Edit...in the hand shot i can see the shadow is the approximate hight of the stone so it is likely 45 degrees and not direct exposure.

 

[Moh 10]

It''s the lighting.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

place a sheet of copy paper over the front of your camera (with a hole for the lens) and so the light source - which is single and very strong in your 2 photo''s - is diffused.
You will see a totally different result.
Please post it

 

[Oaty]

Update:

I spoke with the owner today for over 30 mins about expectations vs. performance of a product. Since I spend a lot of time doing the exact same thing after the sale with my customers, I really appreciate this level of customer service. He offered to send me a comparable diamond of my choice from his inventory to compare side-by-side with this stone. It''s a gracious offer and I''m taking him up on it. I''ll keep you updated on what I find.

An interesting topic of our conversation was when we discussed the perception of beauty in stones that favor brightness over stones that favor scintillation, and that this could be one of those cases where my expectations are tied to a particular performance characteristic of the diamond.

Karl: Tomorrow will be mostly sunny and I''ll be spending some time under a tree, hahaha.

Wink: Bingo-- that''s the heart of the issue. Me buying this diamond online meant that I placed most of my faith in the IS and ASET images. He indicated that it''s strange for the stone to be that dark under any angle or lighting condition with that kind of ASET. The original stone was bright, had a lot of fire and a ton of scintillation and I selected the current stone because it had the closest IS and ASET images to the original:

 

[Lorelei]

That is an excellent offer from WF!

Also I was curious especially concerning that lovely ASET image of this stone as to what you are seeing, so that could be an explanation concerning your expectations that you could be seeking a particular performance characteristic. Especially as you said in an earlier post that this diamond does this in most lighting conditions.

Please keep us updated as this is valuable info which could be of help to others in the future and I will be interested in following this story!

 

[Doc_1]

Bump...!!

 

[Oaty]

Update:

This weekend I spent a lot of time observing three diamonds: the stone in the setting, a comparison diamond sent to me by the excellent folks I purchased the aforementioned stone & setting from, and one I sourced very last minute from another excellent vendor in NY.

When I first saw all three of them side by side it didn''t take long for me to make up my mind but I sought input anyway. This was an equal opportunity observation but I admit I gave the female opinion more sway. In the end it didn''t matter because 10 out of the 11 sets of eyeballs reached the same conclusion I had. For the record, the lone dissenter was a buddy of mine who happens to be ring shopping for his gf-- and the irony of that wasn''t lost on me. Haha!

After a solution is reached with the vendor tomorrow I''ll post the links to five short videos I shot this weekend so those following this thread can see what 10 good sets of eyes saw.

 

[Lorelei]

Oaty

Thanks so much for the update!

 

[girlie-girl]

Date: 11/10/2008 3:49:27 AM
Author: Oaty
Update:

This weekend I spent a lot of time observing three diamonds: the stone in the setting, a comparison diamond sent to me by the excellent folks I purchased the aforementioned stone & setting from, and one I sourced very last minute from another excellent vendor in NY.

When I first saw all three of them side by side it didn''t take long for me to make up my mind but I sought input anyway. This was an equal opportunity observation but I admit I gave the female opinion more sway. In the end it didn''t matter because 10 out of the 11 sets of eyeballs reached the same conclusion I had. For the record, the lone dissenter was a buddy of mine who happens to be ring shopping for his gf-- and the irony of that wasn''t lost on me. Haha!

After a solution is reached with the vendor tomorrow I''ll post the links to five short videos I shot this weekend so those following this thread can see what 10 good sets of eyes saw.

So which did you like best? The one you purchased, the comparison diamond, or the last minute sourced diamond?

I''m guessing the friend who is shopping for a stone for his gf didn''t like yours because it was better than anything he could get.

But then, I could be mistaken. LOL