picking PS tomorrow. help talk me through my decision!

[sgc3301]

I have 3 stones to choose from. They are all pear shaped. I have seen them all and they are all eye clean and mind clean. After seeing over 50 pears I have come to feel like I'm pretty good at knowing what I like and picking up on flaws and brilliance. I do not have an idealscope or ASET which would probably be the tie breaker at this point but I figured I'd offer up my options and see what people think.

Jeweler 1 has the first two diamonds. The first one is his own he bought (maybe took as a trade in) and it was at one point close to 2.5 but he said he did not like the cut or clarity and had it cut to clean it up and give it better proportions. I saw this next to a GIA F and could barely see a difference in color. I can't believe they gave it an I1 with the pretty brutal si3 and si2 i have seen. second is one he got from a dealer in NYC so he's essentially a middle man and the price is higher.
1) 1.90 carat
F I1 EGL-USA
Table: 62%
Depth 67%
Crown 15.5
Think to Thick
Ratio: 1.54
3A on the AGA cut class (because of the depth) everything else is 1A
Price $4,500
NO BOW TIE

2.) 1.72 carat
G SI3 EGL-USA (i saw the white inclusion off to the side within about 15 seconds while the above i1 i still struggle to see)
Table: 60
Depth: 60.1
Crown 13.6
Medium
Ratio:1.62
1A on AGA cut class
Price: $6500 (i tried to haggle with dealer via jeweler. i got him down from 7,200)
NO BOW TIE

3.) 1.77 carat
H SI2 EGL-ISRAEL
Table: 60
Depth: 59.9
Crown: unkown (forgot to write down)
Medium
can't do AGA but baring a funky crown number it's going to be a 1A-2A
Price: $6200 (i told her it was too much for an EGL Israel that is really an I SI3 at best but could be a J I1 for all I know)
NO BOW TIE

As I said I don't have an aset or idealscope. I do have side by side photos but i suck at uploading them. honestly, the only difference is how they look next to each other with number 2 looking bigger than number 1 because of number 1 is deeper and number 2 has a longer ratio. At this point it's all ego. Do I want to give my girl the "larger" stone knowing I could have spent more for a bigger looking one or do i give her a smaller one knowing for less money I could have given her a "larger" one. What are your thoughts? If it helps, there will be two pear side stones about .3 each with a small bloom around the center so it will be blingy no matter what.

 

[Christina...]

My thoughts are that you want to stay away from anything graded by EGL especially when your considering stones in the SI2 category.

Have you had a chance to read the many many many threads on pricescope talking about EGL labs? EGL is notorious for their soft gradng. Some EGL labs are better than others, but they are all soft. For instance EGL isreal is considered the worst, EGL USA and Canada are considered the better, but they all are inaccurate. For instance, the H SI2 that you have selected would likely be graded as J/K and I1 by GIA or AGS. The EGL F I1, that you have chosen is also likely H/I and I2/3!! You mentioned that these stones are eye clean and mind clean, but I have to say that either you still haven't seen enough stones to train your eyes to know what to look for, or your are way less sensitive to the inclusions than many many others. I think you should ask yourself if your g/f will see them, because I can tell you with almost 100% confidence that these stones are not eye clean and others will see the inclusions.

I feel like I'm raining on your parade and that is not my intention. In fact I often feel bad writing this same warning over and over to newbies, but I can assure you that the warning comes with the best of intentions. If you want a well cut, white and bright diamond with few inclusions and accurately graded, then you need to be looking for a diamond graded by GIA or AGS.

 

[Christina...]

This would be a great I1 if the feathers are not durability risks and it's an icy white D to boot!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-I1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1462339.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1465310.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1451182.asp

 

[sgc3301]

Christina, thank you for replying and actually throwing some suggestions out there. I just have some questions/responses that are genuine so please don't take them as sarcastic or rude. The first one being "am I buying the ring or the paper?" I have completely ruled out the Israel stone because everything I read says egl Israel isn't legit. I was actually surprised to see it priced that high but seeing it and looking at the simensions/cut, it is a nice looking stone. However, I am fully aware it could be a J color i1. I couldn't see the inclusion twisps without a loop but like you said, knowing egl Israel reputation, I will pass as I am being asked to pay for a diamond that is very likely of lesser quality. As for the other two, everything I have read has indicated egl USA is not affiliated in any way with egl USA and has been gaining a better reputation. Many people still dislike the si3 rating and some say USA is still looser than gia/ags on color. But if the buyer knows this thanks (to great websites like PS) and the seller knows the buyer knows this and both are willing to agree on a price than where is the harm? Why should we pay the premium of a GIA cert when I have a lab that says something and then an appraiser who either agrees with it or comes to a slightly lesser conclusion? As I said in my original post, I saw the top two next to each other and next to GIA f and g stones. I think the color couldn't be more than a grade off of GIA. As for the clarity, I was given a first hand lesson in just how inconsistent they can be. To me the SI3 is an I1. If I can see the inclusion within 15-30 seconds without a loop (albeit it right up against my eye almost) it can't be an SI3. However, at arms length the inclusion isn't noticeable as it is white(clear really) and to the side. As for the I1, could it be an i2? I can't see how, since I had to use a loop to find it and only once knowing here it was (off the side under the girdle) could I notice it.
I will be taking either diamond to an appraiser so I am not worried about getting ripped off. And while I understand higher ratings lead to higher prices, the jeweler can obviously work with me on his diamond. The 1.72 is not his and try won't budge much. And honestly why should they? It is an ideally cut diamond in the 1.75-2.0 range and with that comes a premium no? If we all agree that untrained eyes won't know an F from an H unless side by side and the setting can hide an inclusion what's to worry about other than being ripped off? I don't think i am being ripped off. My concern was at the end of the day, do i spend more $ on a smaller diamond that looks bigger or less money on a bigger diamond that (only i will know) looked smaller. What would people do in my situation? Again, I'm just asking these things because I genuinely want to know what people think.

 

[Mico]

I completely understand where you are coming from. Most PSers are use to buying off numbers with the help of a trusted vendor - however a lot has to be said from what you're seeing. I too was offered an EGL rated E - I asked the vendor to put it against a D GIA and an H GIA stone which confirmed in my eyes that it was likely an F-G.

In my opinion, if you can't see an inclusion, it doesn't matter what the clarity is graded as - others like to have mind clean stones. I also like how I perceive the color of the stone, regardless of what the report says.

Back to your question. I would prefer the one that looks bigger. We're currently ring shopping and after initially wanting a 2ct and realizing we can't afford it (I guess I grew up around people wearning large stones as a norm? - he was looking at 1ct's with high color and clarity before realizing my preferences) am looking for a lower carat weight with a spread similar to that of a 2ct.

I hope this helps , please post pictures when you get them!
Best

 

[sgc3301]

Here are the two next to each other. unfortunately, my friend is standing right over one of them so he's killing the light a little.

here is the 1.72 on it's own. As I said earlier. I think it's a great diamond. I just don't like that it's SI3 rating as I saw the inclusion fairly (under the bottom right prong.) easily and I'm getting charged a premium because the guy knows he can as its a nicely cut stone.

 

[Sparklelu]

I have been on PS for a short time compared to many others, and I get what they say and appreciate all the amazing knowleged they offer and assistance in finding amazing stones. I also understand the difference between the various labs and consider my self so much smarter since joining PS. I go into mall stores and cringe at what they are selling and the prices OY!
THAT SAID... if you saw the diamonds and you compared them to other stones and saw the color, cut, clarity and you love the diamond and have looked at what a diamond of the corrected color and clarity would go for and you are happy with the deal... then go for it. If you don't care about upgrading in the future ( I honestly never heard of upgrading until I found PS!!!) I found it looking for info on replacing a stolen pear engagement ring. Then go for it. If the stone speaks to you and your your GF will love it, go for it!
Do check the stone against the sides stones though!

I know an I2-3 should look like a speckled egg but my cousin has a family stone that was apprased by GIA as an I 2or maybe 3 but you can't see the flaws unless the stone is unmounted and upside down then it is positively scary!!!
You are buying the stone not the paper, but the paper can make the stone more valuable later on.
Am I making any sense?

 

[Mico]

here is the 1.72 on it's own.

Disclaimer, I like rounds am I not sure what pure pear lovers prefer buuuut - in the first picture i like the one on my left (in your right) hand.

 

[sgc3301]

absolutely Elisa. thanks for your words. i feel confident in both diamonds' appearance and performance. As much as I tried not to let ego get in the way of this decision, it's rearing its ugly head! But it's funny because it's not the money as much as my mind knowing whichever one i choose I'm either passing up a larger looking stone or a larger carat stone! I went through the diamond prices "Rap Sheet" that shows the avg price of diamonds on PS market. And the 1.90 comes in at aout 25% cheaper than the ones offered while the 1.72 is almost 50% above the avg per carat price online. I know it's hard to compare online to B&M but that's what I've been using as my guideline for fair pricing. And while I don't expect the guy to take 50% seeing as it's a well cut stone at 1.77 carats, I was hoping for more of a mark down. Ah well. I'm hoping that other guys get this nervous as well. It's been about a solid 3 months of research and PS reading and now it's time to pull the trigger!

I actually like the one in my right as well since I think it will look nicer in my setting. but my mind is messing me up!

 

[blinglover78]

This would be a great I1 if the feathers are not durability risks and it's an icy white D to boot!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-I1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1462339.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1465310.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Pear-Diamond-1451182.asp

If you like what you have already seen in person, then maybe you've already made your decision. But, these options look more appealing to me.....for close to the same price you are getting a GIA or AGS graded stone. If you were getting a great deal, that might sway things a bit, but that doesn't appear to be the case.