Personal Emergency. Mara and other experts - please help!!

[teris10]

Mara, I've read a bunch of your posts and your posts show real insight and intelligence. If you have a few spare moments to help me, I would really appreciate it. Other experts please feel free to chime in as well. Here's the situation:

I was planning to give my girlfriend an engagement ring that was passed down from my great grandmother - a truly stunning brillaint round diamond. Today, I found out that my (older) brother is also getting engaged

... on the same day as me

AND has already asked my mother for the ring I was going to give to my gf!!

I am really happy for him, but also bummed that I have to go buy a ring on short notice.

I went looking today and quickly discovered that I am almost completely worthless when it comes to picking out a stone. I want to spend about 8-10k and I definitely want a round stone. I know that cut is the most important thing. I'd like to get a round stone in the 1.3 - 1.5 carat size, would like to stay G (or higher) in color and VS2 (or better) in clarity.

Any help you can provide in terms of the other factors that you consider to be most important and websites to search on (and the criteria to plug in) would be greatly appreciated!! I simply can't believe this is happening.

 

[SeaOats]

You can read the tutorial on the top of this page under "knowledge" to learn more about cut.

However, if you are in a rush, www.whiteflash.com and www.goodoldgold.com are great choices to look for ideal cut diamonds. WF has branded H&A diamonds called "A Cut Above" or ACAs. You can purchase one of those knowing 100% that you have an ideal cut diamond.

 

[Kaleigh]

Rascal gave you great advice. Can''t go wrong with either vendor. Good luck!!!

 

[Mara]

hi teris...rascal gives some great advise...sorry to hear that your brother beat you to the punch with the engagement! but at least now you get to choose something that is really made for your girlfriend. it''s more fun that way.

your budget is healthy...have you seen G VS in person? i ask that because my first stone was a G VS1 and in reality i didn''t need such a high color or clarity to satisfy me, but i didnt know that at the time....alot of people tend to think that is a safe zone IMO in terms of getting a good color and clarity, but in reality your eyes may not be sensitive to color or inclusions (or they may)....so i would go into stores and ask to see varying colors and clarities to get an idea of how tolerant your eyes are (and how tolerant you think your GF''s will be).

now i have a J SI2 stone and i adore it! in reality i prefer size over a high color or clarity, and my eyes are not that great at picking out inclusions. you can get lucky with a good SI stone from an AGS or GIA lab with a strict grade....i highly recommend it.

whiteflash''s Expert Selection has some great unbranded well-cut stones, they also have the branded ACA line, goodoldgold has unbranded H&A''s as well, i''d also check out www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com (signature series) for well-cut stones, and www.exceldiamonds.com (superbcert branded stones)....you can''t go wrong with any of those in my opinion.

hope that helps! people here also love to look for stones, so you can also have eyes and ears looking out for you...keep us posted on how your search goes!

 

[Mara]

here are some stones to consider as well..any one of these would be a knockout stone most likely....i went up to H color because having had a G and an H literally to me there was not a whit of difference in visual color and you can save a bit of $$ and get closer to the 1.5c mark. if you shop offline, use these stones as a gauge in terms of what you will be paying...expect to pay a bit more offline but don't pay too much more!!

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/a-cut-above-h-a-cut-diamond-2167537.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/a-cut-above-h-a-cut-diamond-703943.htm (says sold but if it comes back on that would be a GREAT stone!! it looks like a beautiful eye clean stone from the image)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_30ct_h_si1_h%26a.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_33ct_g_vs2_h%26a1.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_35ct_h_vs2_h%26a1.htm
http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/211.html
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9767891

 

[teris10]

Thanks everyone so much for the quick replies!!

Mara, I was able to tell the difference in color only by comparing stones next to one another. I''m just not sure how perceptive my gf''s eyes will be! How will I know if I get lucky with an S1 stone? What do you mean by a lab with a strict grade? Sorry to ask so many questions - I''m a bit overwhelmed.

I''ll take a look right now at those sites. Would you mind if I posted a few things I see to get your thoughts?

Thanks again.

 

[Mara]

you can get lucky with an SI stone if you look at it and you see no inclusions. most of the time this is possible with white inclusions rather than black (you can ask the vendor all of this)..also you can ask your vendor if the stone is eye-clean to them, their definition of eye-clean etc. it is a little more risky to take a chance, but i think if people can mentally get past the thought that their stone may have something inside it (it does always, regardless of whether or not you can see it unless it is a FL grade!), then it's easier to think about it and consider it. i went from a VS1 to an SI1 that was eye-clean and now to an SI2 that has one super super tiny little black fleck off the table that i can only see if i put my eye up to it and then only in certain lighting conditions. and what a deal those SI2's are! my next stone will be an SI as well. if you can get a strict lab like AGS or GIA who grade the SI1s and SI2s...you can get lucky with a good eye-clean stone. other labs tend to not be as strict from what we hear on here (aka EGL, IGL etc)

please post whatever you find out there and also what you think of any of the stones i posted....people around here LOVE to give their two cents or a dollar on pretty baubles!!

 

[teris10]

Well, Mara, of course the one I like the best is sold already. Maybe my younger brother bought it!! I''ll call tomorrow and see if it''s gone. I have no problem going with an SI if I can get one that is eye-clean. And I like that this one is 1.5.

The first link you posted looked great. A bit under the 1.5 I wanted, but the stone looks great. Should I be bothered by the fact that it''s not GIA?

The exceldiamonds link seems perfect except that it''s fairly far away from the 1.5 (it''s 1.2. But it says that the cut is Super Ideal/H&A, which I guess is about as good as it gets, right?

So these are great in terms of girdle and table/depth and all that good stuff? There''s just way too much to know about diamonds!!!

This site is going to save me - thanks so much.

 

[teris10]

How about this one: http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/377.html

Any good? I guess you''d need more info to really be able to tell.

 

[sluke]

Do consider an SI stone. I have one from Whiteflash (expert selection). GIA certified. I have to really look hard with a loop to find the inclusions. I have had women ask me to take my ring off and look at with the naked eye and still think it is a VS or better. Mine''s is a E color SI1. This was pre-pricescope. I''d lucked out and picked a wonderful, ideal cut, but if I knew what I know now, I would definitely go lower in color and consider SI2 as long as it is an ideal cut.

You have a generous and healthy budget. Good Luck! and Congrats!

 

[teris10]

Thanks, Sluke. After reading more, it looks like the stone I picked out above has some serious problems with its table, depth, etc. But hey, I''m a rookie and I need to learn fast.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/29/2005 9:54:49 PM
Author: teris10

How about this one: http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/377.html

Any good? I guess you''d need more info to really be able to tell.

Ok.... quick note: this in not H&A - the picture is a ''sample'' and 57% depth would likely not look like that.

I see no reason why for 10k you would not get a great cut. Maybe this is a lucky exception from every rule ever made for premium or ideal cuts, but...

More info? No, not really. When you get at least one detail way out of the beaten track, that is quite enough. In this case, even for me (I am a bit more lenient than Mara, perhaps) this is shallow. Large table does not help either.

The stone is on the discount side of the Excel website for a reason. The H&A on this site are typically a bit more expensive than elsewhere, but this isn''t much of a reason to pic their rejects.

My 2c



PS:

For the record, the specs were:

1.51 H-VS1
Measurements : 7.6 x 7.68 x 4.41
Depth : 57.7
Table : 61%
Girdle : Very thin to thin
Culet : None
Polish : Good
Symmetry : Very good
Fluorescence : Slight Blue

 

[Hest88]

Teris, if you''re in a hurry, the easiest thing to do is to put yourself in the hands of an expert. Do a quick glance at the "Show me the Ring" area, see what vendors tickle your fancy, and then contact them. Tell them how much money you can spend, what your requirements are, and ask them what they have within your parameters. Honestly, you''re not going to be able tell the difference right now between one ideal cut stone and another, so---especially given the circumstances---it would be easier and less painful to have a vendor do the walking for you. That *is* their job, after all!

Among my favorites: www.whiteflash.com, www.goodoldgold.com, www.winkjones.com, www.niceice.com, www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com (james allen). All of them will know what you''re talkling about when you tell them you want a super ideal and all have pretty good reputations, so you should be in good hands. I know there are other vendors as well who are great, but these happen to be the ones I''m most familiar with. Others, I''m sure, will chime in with their favorites.

Once you have the stone, have them set it in an inexpensive, temporary setting so you and your gal have the leisure to find her perfect wedding set. Good luck!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/29/2005 8:50:42 PM
Author:teris10

I want to spend about 8-10k and I definitely want a round stone. I know that cut is the most important thing. I''d like to get a round stone in the 1.3 - 1.5 carat size, would like to stay G (or higher) in color and VS2 (or better) in clarity.

This may miss the 1.5 cts mark - but that doesn''t have to mean all that much. The size difference (by diameter) is far from striking (see below) and it may not be worth compromising everything else for the sake of it. In the picture I tool the most that can be between the weights: more often than not the stones are not dead on that mark, so the difference may be less in real life.

''Cut is most important'' means great light return and at least near H&A symmetry to me...

Like these:

1.3 H-VS2 ACA, $9k

1.5 cts H-Si1 $11k (the price appears 10.5k on the Pricescope list, and 11.1k on the website - sometimes the difference is due to different payment methods assumed. You may want to ask).

1.5 cts G-Si1 $500 more, same shop.




The next has just about everything going for it, except... the symmetry is not quite as precise. How much that is evident (assuming you are not the greatest H&A fan) in real life size rather than these pictures meant to show off internal symmetry... to each his own. Either version has its merit.

1.51 E-SI1 &10k So... why is this among the least expensive ''colorless''? ''Guess the ''strong blue'' fluorescence does that. It is easy to find an excuse for it. Up to you.



It would have been great to find some 1.4cts thing, but there aren''t that many just below 1.5 (a ''psychological step'' if you wish). But one can always look for one, and sure enough... Here''s the very thing:

1.42 cts, G-VS2 $10k The AGS cert is there, the seller makes a note that this has proportions in line with AGS0 but the stone is not AGS0 because of the finish grades ''very good'' instead of ''ideal''. Oh well, this wouldn''t be the most important thing. What if it is near H&A anyway? The AGS lab report is not listed, but once a copy is obtained we will have the proportions (crown and pavilion angles) to look at - which wouldn''t happen as fast for a GIA graded stone that would not come with any further detail already on the lab paper. Can''t hurt to ask.

Another 1.5 G-VS2 comes at $11k at WF (and other lists it too, as usual). The finish grades read ''ideal''. The proportions are yet to be known... Sounds like worth asking to me!



So...

I would ask about the last two - to get copies of the lab reports with the proportions at least. It would be faster to pic a seller who lists both for the exercise.

The safest bet and quickest transaction may be the first listed 1.3 H-VS2 ACA.

And sure enough, there should be others of the kind. This is just a quick look and my 2c.

The simplest $100 worth temporary setting would get the schedule right and it can''t be unpleasant for your girl to look for the perfect ring afterwards. At ''worst'', this may be an engagement present on top of everything

 

[teris10]

Thanks Valeria. I''m checking on those stones.

In the meantime, what do you all think of this one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2167498.htm#

I''m checking to make sure that it''s eye-clean, but Mara''s advice on color would allow me to get a good price if the stone is white to the eye.

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[rosy]

H stones are great. I have an H & my next stone would drop to an I or maybe a J if the cut was great. Honestly you cannot tell what color grade a stone is on the finger mounted. The average joe can''t anyway. So many people ask what color my stone is, which means they can''t tell just by looking at it. I have a VS & would happily drop to SI if it''s eyeclean for the $ savings.

 

[allycat0303]

Hey Teris10,

If you work with WF and buy an S1, a good thing to do might be to ask them "At what magnification do you see the inclusions?" This worked for me. The pic of my stone was a mess, but John told me only under 10, or 20 x (can't remember) and it's completely clean.

You know, sometimes I wonder with stones that if you post them on the forum, someone sees it and buys it. Seems to happen a lot. Good luck on your search!

ETA: You mentioned you like the 1 st stone that Mara posted. The lab is AGS (good, strict lab, no problems what so ever).

 

[teris10]

Thanks for the advice, Alleycat. Just in case, I have reserved that diamond.

I''d appreciate all opinions on it. Thanks!

Here is the link again: http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2167498.htm

 

[Mara]

Other than saying I really love that I SI2 WF diamond you found....I would advise you to really grill WF if the stone is eye-clean...they have a 'definition' of what that means to them, but also ask if they can see inclusions from the SIDES of the stone or any other angle. My stone had an icky looking inclusion plot but I guess all the items are white because I can only see that absolutely miniscule black speck in it and only then at about 6 inches which is not typically how I view my stone.

In terms of the I color, seeing diamonds side by side can be misleading because yes you will see a differerence typically in that kind of situation but that is not normal wear and not how you view the stone when it is set. You can also talk to WF about the color of the stone, is it a strong I or more on the H side of the I spectrum (aka closer to H). I do believe that the cut of the stone helps mask a bit of color, so if the stones you saw in person in a store locally were not ideal cut then you may have also seen a bit more color than you expected. But eyes are tricky and very personal...so only you will know where your color tolerance is!!!

Let us know how things progress with that stone...get an idealscope image and a 40x mag and lets look at it! But the numbers are divine from my perspective!!! I love it!

 

[teris10]

Awesome! Thanks, Mara. I''ll pass along the info when I get it - which should be later today.

 

[teris10]

I''ve decided to wait until Valentine''s Day to propose. I don''t want my gf to be upset that someone else is sharing her "big day." This way, my brother''s gf will be happy on New Year''s Day and my gf will be EXTRA happy on Valentine''s Day (at least I hope she will

).

Unfortunately, I haven''t heard back from whiteflash yet. When I do, I''ll post all of the other info I get.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this diamond? Thanks, everyone!

 

[just_looking!]

The other alternative is to propose (on a date you choose) with a wedding ring and let her choose the design of the engagement ring?

Although we went with a 3 stone ring and had a curved wedding band made to fit, I wear my plain ''ering'' band by itself for sports etc.