People who do not have children...

[violet3]

We had a lot of lonely years. We found people whose children were grown and gone, we had lunch with people who would do lunch but not dinner or weekends, we found those who didn’t have children. Some friends came back after their kids got old enough to be home alone. Some didn’t. We let go of a lot of relationships and tried not to take it personally when friends preferred play dates with other parents over spending time with us. But we spend a lot of time by ourselves too. It’s easier now that people’s kids are older. The 30’s were the hardest. And yes, people assume a lot of things (we have had a lot of remarks thrown our way with assumptions that we didn’t want kids, or that we waited too long (and my eggs got old), or that we don’t like kids because we didn’t “choose” to adopt (when the truth is we spent thousands of dollars and jumped through hoops and waited years and never got close to being offered a child - and then we were too old because most programs age you out once you turn 45 - we spent 10 years on the wait list). It’s hurtful and none of it is true. But there’s also happiness and meaning and purpose in life, so there are paths forward to happiness. But there’s also a lot of loss. And people assume that adoption or surrogacy are easy or within financial reach. And if you elect to foster know that you will be dealing with a LOT of trauma (and those agencies often want “experienced” parents and stay at home parents due to the behavioral challenges that come with many of these kids), and loss when you have to give them back. It’s not the same as having your own child.

Wish I could give you a hug. Thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. I like that there is also happiness, and meaning, and purpose....I hope I can get there at some point.

 

[Sparkles88]

Big heartfelt hugs to you @violet3, I can totally relate to the feelings you have been experiencing. I lost a decade and more of my life trying to conceive (my 30’s) and start a family of our own. Friends and family were having babies all around me and whilst I was happy for them, it really hurt me deeply to think I may never become a mother. Baby showers were torturous and eventually I didn’t attend them because I wasn’t able to cope and put a brave face on. There a huge difference between being child free by choice and being childless because of circumstances not entirely in your control. I felt so helpless and although friends and family were supportive, they couldn’t feel the pain, sadness and the longing I felt. I kept a journal during this time, it did help me express myself and get all my feelings and emotions out.
We had many failed IVF attempts, suffered three miscarriages which was utterly soul destroying but we never gave up on our dream and finally at the ripe age of 42 we adopted our first child. The most amazing, joyous, challenging experience! It took us 5 years in total to bring our son home and then another 4 years for our dear daughter. I love my two children with all my heart and often my DH and I joke that we couldn’t have made them better ourselves. Even though they are not of our flesh and blood, they are our beautiful children and we adore them, our forever family.
I often wished there was a crystal ball to let my younger self know, it would all work out in the end. But we have no regrets, it’s our unique story and journey.
The kids are happy, healthy and well adjusted and no matter what gets thrown our way we will love and support them because they are ours.
I hope and pray that one day your dreams will be realized @violet3, you are in my thoughts xx

 

[violet3]

Big heartfelt hugs to you @violet3, I can totally relate to the feelings you have been experiencing. I lost a decade and more of my life trying to conceive (my 30’s) and start a family of our own. Friends and family were having babies all around me and whilst I was happy for them, it really hurt me deeply to think I may never become a mother. Baby showers were torturous and eventually I didn’t attend them because I wasn’t able to cope and put a brave face on. There a huge difference between being child free by choice and being childless because of circumstances not entirely in your control. I felt so helpless and although friends and family were supportive, they couldn’t feel the pain, sadness and the longing I felt. I kept a journal during this time, it did help me express myself and get all my feelings and emotions out.
We had many failed IVF attempts, suffered three miscarriages which was utterly soul destroying but we never gave up on our dream and finally at the ripe age of 42 we adopted our first child. The most amazing, joyous, challenging experience! It took us 5 years in total to bring our son home and then another 4 years for our dear daughter. I love my two children with all my heart and often my DH and I joke that we couldn’t have made them better ourselves. Even though they are not of our flesh and blood, they are our beautiful children and we adore them, our forever family.
I often wished there was a crystal ball to let my younger self know, it would all work out in the end. But we have no regrets, it’s our unique story and journey.
The kids are happy, healthy and well adjusted and no matter what gets thrown our way we will love and support them because they are ours.
I hope and pray that one day your dreams will be realized @violet3, you are in my thoughts xx

What a thoughtful response, and thank you so much. BABY SHOWERS - holy crap, the last one (which was for my brother's wife) had me in tears for several days. I literally said to my husband "I'm not going to go to those anymore. I just can't do it."

I'm 42 now, and my husband and I have talked about adoption, but he's been reluctant until this last baby in my family caused me so much pain. May I ask, what was the process? I truly fear we are too old to start it at this point.

 

[Sparkles88]

Oh gosh, I would have an ache in my heart for days leading up to baby showers. So I totally understand how much it affects you, {{big hugs}}.
I’m unsure where you are located but we are in Australia so the process will have some similarities. We started the process when we were around 37 years old. My advice to others thinking about adoption is to take the first step and register for information. The longer you delay adds time to the whole process, but obviously it’s a big commitment for both of you so you need to know when you are both ready emotionally. There will be seminars to attend, home study etc but it will get you one step closer to becoming either foster/adoptive parents. I’m sad to say there is no certainty in adoption, families age out, the process can be gruelling and can take toll on your relationship. Luckily it brought DH and I closer together and adversity strengthened our relationship .
Good luck and I truly hope you’ll find peace and joy. I kept a gratitude journal and that helped immensely. Reminding myself of the wonderful things I had in life really did help me cope. Be gentle on you self too xx

 

[AGBF]

I'm 42 now, and my husband and I have talked about adoption, but he's been reluctant until this last baby in my family caused me so much pain. May I ask, what was the process? I truly fear we are too old to start it at this point.

You are not too old to start. If you are open to international adoption, you must match who you are with the needs of the "source". In adoption lingo the "source" is the lawyer, orphanage, or other intermediary who has access to the infants or children available for adoption.

I do not know where you live, but here in Connecticut one was, and I believe still is, able to contact The Latin American Parents Association for assistance. After having contacted agencies, thinking I might be able to adopt a baby from Korea since my next door neighbor had done so a few years previously, I was referred to LAPA. I went to a meeting and was shown many piles of paper laid out on a huge dining room table in one member's house. Each pile had information on a different "source". Some sources said you to be under 40. Some said you had to be over 30. Some said you had to be married. Some said you could be single. Some said you could never have been divorced. Some said one of you could have been divorced, but not both. Some of the said each of you could have been divorced, but no one could be on a third marriage. Some said you needed a letter proving you had been treated for infertility. Other sourced didn't care. Some places didn't want you to have other children. Some places wanted practicing Christians. (I do have to say that this was before the Hague conference and I do not know how much impact that had on what can be demanded of people. It probably had no impact.)

My point is that no one could fit the criteria for every source, but there was someplace for everyone. You got to pick some things important to you, too. Some sources allowed you to pick the sex of the child. Some sources had young infants. Some places made you travel to get your baby; others had the baby brought to you.

It was all a matter of who you were and what you wanted. You had to match who you were with what you wanted.

Then, no matter where you were adopting from, you needed a home study done. That is done by a local social worker whether the adoption is foreign or domestic.

There used to be a thread on this. I linked it below. I had forgotten how active it was and how much I used to enjoy it.

I suggest you contact LAPA in Connecticut for help in finding resources in your area. I will also look for the old thread on adoption.


Adoption Thread...https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/adoption-thread.151339/

Article about LAPA in Connecticut...https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-2003-05-05-0305050323-story.html

Deb/AGBF

 

[missy]

Missy's last thread on life challenges had me thinking. I was unable to have children, and it made my 30s a really sad time, as nearly all of my friends, and all of my siblings grew their families. Are there other PSers on her who can relate, and if so, how do you deal with this sadness? Does it get better or easier with time? Are there things I could or should be doing to make this easier on myself?

I'm 42, and my youngest brother (37) just had a baby, so it has reopened this pain for me in a pretty major way. I'm now the only one of my 4 siblings without children. I try to be graceful about it, but it's really hard. I actually was shocked at just how painful it was when they had the baby last week - I work with my therapist pretty regularly on this topic, but it feels like I just took several steps backward since the new baby arrived. I also feel like a rotten sister, because something so joyful for my brother has made me so profoundly sad.

If anyone can relate, or has any advice to give, I'd love to hear it

Violet, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Wanting to have children and not being able to is one of the toughest things one can experience and my heart goes out to you.

You are not a terrible sister by any means. You are a wonderful sister. I cannot imagine wanting to have children so badly and not being able to yet seeing all the loved ones around you give birth. You are a wonderful aunt and mentor and know that you bring great love and joy to your nieces and nephews. But that doesn't take away the ache you feel at not being able to have children of your own.

We are all unique individuals so there is no one right way to feel about this. Or go about this. I can relate (not in wanting children and not being able to have them but) in wanting something about my life to be different and being unable to change that. It is a bitter pill to swallow. For me it was about accepting the new "normal" and adapting to it. It is not easy. It is not pleasant. With time things often become less challenging.

There are things about one's life that one can change and then there are things about one's life that one cannot change. Others here have already mentioned adoption and fostering. All good choices for some. Pros and cons with each choice and each decision. That might or not be a good fit for you and your dh. Only you and your dh can make that call. But I do understand how sad it is not to be able to have children when one wants to so badly have children.

I have seen good friends and family struggle with infertility/not being able to have children and deal with each in their own way. Each made peace with it in a way that worked for them. Our brother in law and his wife adopted children from China and their daughters are the greatest joy in their lives. My mom's brother and his wife (many decades ago) were unable to adopt (things were very difficult at that time to adopt) and they made their lives wonderful in a different way that works for them. Are they still sad about the road not taken? Of course but (for them) they have come to terms with it and are at peace with their decision.

You have more options open to you than couples did many decades ago and in a way that makes it even more challenging. More choices, more challenges.

You ask are their things you should be doing to make things easier for you. It seems to me you are doing all the right things. You are seeing a therapist to help you process and deal with this and you are looking into all the options. One thing I would like to add is please don't be hard on yourself. This is nothing you did or caused. It is just something that sucks big time for you and you and your dh but in no way shape or form is your fault. Please be kind to yourself and gentle with yourself. I wish I could reach through the computer screen (n a non creepy way lol) and give you a big gentle hug.

Sending you gentle hugs and support. I am so very sorry and hope someday your dream of having children comes true. I want for you whatever you want for you and to that end am sending you bucketloads of good wishes.

 

[Austina]

I’m so sorry @violet3 , what you’re experiencing is very natural. We all assume that if we want children, we’ll be able to have them. Sadly, that’s not always the case.

I didn’t think I’d wanted children because of my awful childhood, I didn’t even want to get married. I did get married, then one day, decided I wanted a child. It took us a few years to have a successful pregnancy, but I didn’t find being a mother easy.

As things turned out, we couldn’t have anymore children, and I can’t tell you how many people assumed we didn’t want anymore. I got the “how selfish to deny your child a sibling” and “your kid will be a spoilt brat because he’s an only child”, yes, really!

During the time we were actually trying for a 2nd, every time someone I knew got pregnant, I actually felt physically sick, and when I was on my own, I cried because it wasn’t me.

We briefly considered adoption, but the process was long and complicated, and ultimately we decided against it because we felt the age gap would be too much.

My best friend from childhood tried for many years to get pregnant, and it didn’t happen. One day she rang me to say she was pregnant. She was 44! She had a healthy little girl who’ll be 16 this year. Despite being an older mother, she coped really well, I think probably because she was calmer and more patient.

Wanting something that, at the moment, you can’t have, doesn’t make you a bad person, it just makes you human. You are a good sister and aunt, helping out with your nephews will mean a great deal to their parents, and I’m a firm believer in children spending time with people other than their parents. I was determined my son wasn’t going to be a ‘Cling-on’ child, and children learn so much from being with others.

If your path leads you to adoption, then I wish you every success. If your path doesn’t, then I wish you the peace and acceptance that you and your husband will have a long and happy life together.

 

[seaurchin]

As another option, especially if you would consider a child beyond babyhood, check out the US foster care/adoption system.

You have to take classes and get a home study done but you can specify that you only want to adopt or only want to foster a child who is free for adoption and other variables. (I think it's better to see how a child clicks with you because once they're no longer babies, there is a personality thing, plus of course the effects of whatever trauma these children have been put through).

It is a somewhat different deal since these are usually not babies and come with additional challenges. But it's also probably the fastest and least expensive option, IF it's something you might want to do. In fact, if you'd adopt a child who is harder to place (which might be something like over five years old, a Black or Hispanic child, a child with some type of disability, two or more siblings, for ex.) you can even receive the same monthly stipend that foster parents get after the adoption and until the child is an adult- $600 or something like that per child and other benefits, to help you raise them.

If I recall correctly, they prefer you to be in age range to be the child's biological parent, but they do make exceptions, and single parents are also considered.

Another thought, which has been mentioned, is that the heavily child-centered years do end, beginning in the forties. The kids move out and then the social thing doesn't seem to make nearly as much difference, in my opinion.

 

[violet3]

You are not too old to start. If you are open to international adoption, you must match who you are with the needs of the "source". In adoption lingo the "source" is the lawyer, orphanage, or other intermediary who has access to the infants or children available for adoption.

I do not know where you live, but here in Connecticut one was, and I believe still is, able to contact The Latin American Parents Association for assistance. After having contacted agencies, thinking I might be able to adopt a baby from Korea since my next door neighbor had done so a few years previously, I was referred to LAPA. I went to a meeting and was shown many piles of paper laid out on a huge dining room table in one member's house. Each pile had information on a different "source". Some sources said you to be under 40. Some said you had to be over 30. Some said you had to be married. Some said you could be single. Some said you could never have been divorced. Some said one of you could have been divorced, but not both. Some of the said each of you could have been divorced, but no one could be on a third marriage. Some said you needed a letter proving you had been treated for infertility. Other sourced didn't care. Some places didn't want you to have other children. Some places wanted practicing Christians. (I do have to say that this was before the Hague conference and I do not know how much impact that had on what can be demanded of people. It probably had no impact.)

My point is that no one could fit the criteria for every source, but there was someplace for everyone. You got to pick some things important to you, too. Some sources allowed you to pick the sex of the child. Some sources had young infants. Some places made you travel to get your baby; others had the baby brought to you.

It was all a matter of who you were and what you wanted. You had to match who you were with what you wanted.

Then, no matter where you were adopting from, you needed a home study done. That is done by a local social worker whether the adoption is foreign or domestic.

There used to be a thread on this. I linked it below. I had forgotten how active it was and how much I used to enjoy it.

I suggest you contact LAPA in Connecticut for help in finding resources in your area. I will also look for the old thread on adoption.


Adoption Thread...https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/adoption-thread.151339/

Article about LAPA in Connecticut...https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-2003-05-05-0305050323-story.html

Deb/AGBF

Oh this is VERY helpful Deb - thank you! I will look at those links. Isn't it funny, all of the different requirements? I often say people make it really hard to even adopt a dog, let alone a child! I am not judging, because I think children should have access to quality parents. I have looked into adoption locally (I'm in DE, on the East Coast also), and the amount of hoops you need to go through is daunting. I am really happy thought to see a thread regarding adoption - I'm looking forward to reading it after work tonight. Thank you so much for your kindness and help here - it is TRULY appreciated.

 

[violet3]

Violet, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Wanting to have children and not being able to is one of the toughest things one can experience and my heart goes out to you.

You are not a terrible sister by any means. You are a wonderful sister. I cannot imagine wanting to have children so badly and not being able to yet seeing all the loved ones around you give birth. You are a wonderful aunt and mentor and know that you bring great love and joy to your nieces and nephews. But that doesn't take away the ache you feel at not being able to have children of your own.

We are all unique individuals so there is no one right way to feel about this. Or go about this. I can relate (not in wanting children and not being able to have them but) in wanting something about my life to be different and being unable to change that. It is a bitter pill to swallow. For me it was about accepting the new "normal" and adapting to it. It is not easy. It is not pleasant. With time things often become less challenging.

There are things about one's life that one can change and then there are things about one's life that one cannot change. Others here have already mentioned adoption and fostering. All good choices for some. Pros and cons with each choice and each decision. That might or not be a good fit for you and your dh. Only you and your dh can make that call. But I do understand how sad it is not to be able to have children when one wants to so badly have children.

I have seen good friends and family struggle with infertility/not being able to have children and deal with each in their own way. Each made peace with it in a way that worked for them. Our brother in law and his wife adopted children from China and their daughters are the greatest joy in their lives. My mom's brother and his wife (many decades ago) were unable to adopt (things were very difficult at that time to adopt) and they made their lives wonderful in a different way that works for them. Are they still sad about the road not taken? Of course but (for them) they have come to terms with it and are at peace with their decision.

You have more options open to you than couples did many decades ago and in a way that makes it even more challenging. More choices, more challenges.

You ask are their things you should be doing to make things easier for you. It seems to me you are doing all the right things. You are seeing a therapist to help you process and deal with this and you are looking into all the options. One thing I would like to add is please don't be hard on yourself. This is nothing you did or caused. It is just something that sucks big time for you and you and your dh but in no way shape or form is your fault. Please be kind to yourself and gentle with yourself. I wish I could reach through the computer screen (n a non creepy way lol) and give you a big gentle hug.

Sending you gentle hugs and support. I am so very sorry and hope someday your dream of having children comes true. I want for you whatever you want for you and to that end am sending you bucketloads of good wishes.

This is very kind @missy, thank you. My therapist in our last session, said that I really needed to think of being infertile as a disability, because that's just what it is. My body is not capable of what other's body's are, but it's not something I caused or can control. That was actually very helpful, because it did relieve me of some of the burden of carrying around the thought that something was wrong with me of my own doing. I'm working on how to process it all. A gratitude journal sounds like a great idea, so thank you for that @Sparkles88 - I have done that in the past with other sad issues and it did help.

@missy, question for you, since you don't have kids - do most of your friends have them? If not, where do/did you find the other childless people to interact with? Since most of my friends had children later in life, it's going to be a long time before the kids are off doing their own things and my friends are able to socialize again. None of my friends had children in their 20s, so I've got a long road ahead of me. Finding others who are childless is so hard. Thanks again, for your kind words - all of this is very helpful.

 

[violet3]

I’m so sorry @violet3 , what you’re experiencing is very natural. We all assume that if we want children, we’ll be able to have them. Sadly, that’s not always the case.

I didn’t think I’d wanted children because of my awful childhood, I didn’t even want to get married. I did get married, then one day, decided I wanted a child. It took us a few years to have a successful pregnancy, but I didn’t find being a mother easy.

As things turned out, we couldn’t have anymore children, and I can’t tell you how many people assumed we didn’t want anymore. I got the “how selfish to deny your child a sibling” and “your kid will be a spoilt brat because he’s an only child”, yes, really!

During the time we were actually trying for a 2nd, every time someone I knew got pregnant, I actually felt physically sick, and when I was on my own, I cried because it wasn’t me.

We briefly considered adoption, but the process was long and complicated, and ultimately we decided against it because we felt the age gap would be too much.

My best friend from childhood tried for many years to get pregnant, and it didn’t happen. One day she rang me to say she was pregnant. She was 44! She had a healthy little girl who’ll be 16 this year. Despite being an older mother, she coped really well, I think probably because she was calmer and more patient.

Wanting something that, at the moment, you can’t have, doesn’t make you a bad person, it just makes you human. You are a good sister and aunt, helping out with your nephews will mean a great deal to their parents, and I’m a firm believer in children spending time with people other than their parents. I was determined my son wasn’t going to be a ‘Cling-on’ child, and children learn so much from being with others.

If your path leads you to adoption, then I wish you every success. If your path doesn’t, then I wish you the peace and acceptance that you and your husband will have a long and happy life together.

Very good insight @Austina - interesting to hear that your friend got pregnant at 44! I hear these stories, and it actually happened to my one brother's wife. I think the thing I'm struggling with is how old I FEEL, at this point. Starting with a newborn now seems overwhelming, because I know how old I'll be when he/she graduates high school. Also, my mother died very young, so that makes me a little nervous. Do other people worry about these things, or just throw caution to the wind and do it? I think i think too much.

Isn't it sad how people make assumptions about our situations? I'm sorry that people did that to you while you were trying for a second baby. What the heck is wrong with people? Thank you for chiming in and for your kind words. It's all so very helpful.

 

[AGBF]

Oh this is VERY helpful Deb - thank you! I will look at those links. Isn't it funny, all of the different requirements? I often say people make it really hard to even adopt a dog, let alone a child! I am not judging, because I think children should have access to quality parents. I have looked into adoption locally (I'm in DE, on the East Coast also), and the amount of hoops you need to go through is daunting. I am really happy thought to see a thread regarding adoption - I'm looking forward to reading it after work tonight. Thank you so much for your kindness and help here - it is TRULY appreciated.

There appears to be a LAPA group in your area. Not within a stone's throw, but within driving distance. (I lived in Virginia for several years, so I know the area.) You might want to attend the July event and see the children and talk to the parents. I did that when I looked into adopting from a source in The Dominican Republic called FAITH. (I do not know if it exists any longer.) I also did all the paperwork for FAITH and we were accepted by that agency, too, despite both of us being 41. There are some countries and agencies where your age will be considered an asset. Some countries respect older people.

LAPA in the DC Area...http://www.lapa-ncr.org/

Deb

 

[violet3]

Another thought, which has been mentioned, is that the heavily child-centered years do end, beginning in the forties. The kids move out and then the social thing doesn't seem to make nearly as much difference, in my opinion.

This is helpful - and I sure hope it's true. Most of my friends had children later in life (late 30s), so it's still really going on, and man it's painful. I have several friends who I used to spend time regularly with, both them and their children, but only because I did everything on their schedule, since they had the kids and I did not. The minute I started being less flexible, or trying other new things on my own, they cut me out basically - it sure is painful and sad for me. And making new friends in your 40s, is just plain hard, but I'm trying.

 

[violet3]

I just want to say thank you to anyone who weighed in on this thread. It has really helped to read your responses. Thank you for taking the time to respond to someone you don't even know. You all are a very kind group of human beings.

I have no idea whether we will proceed with adoption, but I really appreciate all of the resources that have been offered here and I will look into all of them. My husband was initially against adopting, and honestly, until a year ago, we never could have afforded it anyway. Even if it just remains the two of us (+dogs), it has helped to read these ideas and hear stories from others. My therapist said I should try to find others who could relate, and this thread has helped me to do that, so from the bottom of my heart....thank you.

 

[LittleRed]

I don’t know if this will help...... Your situation is certainly one that can cause mourning. You are experiencing a kind of loss. My dad died 10 years ago at age 79. I’ve had a hard time with this. This year he would have been 89. I feel better about his death now since, in my eyes, 89 is a good, long life. It’s hard to describe. I guess I accept his death now because at this point, he might have been gone anyway.

In other words, I hope for you that time/aging will help your feeling of mourning or loss. By the time you’re, say, 50, you might start being more ok with it.

These are just my thoughts. Hopefully they help somehow.

 

[AV_]

I do not... There was no father. I'll be spoiling a gaggle of kids yet, sure bet; I wouldn't be around at all if it wasn't for the proverbial village to raise the children & now I am on the other side.

 

[AGBF]

I just reread this thread. There were some comments about people who had wanted to adopt internationally and found it difficult. I realize that you may not choose to adopt, violet. But to anyone who does, I must say, do not give up!

Someone once told me to say close to others who are adopting and the places from which they are adopting. (The adoption thread here is one example of a place where one used to "hear" things.) Don't just get tied up waiting endlessly on list where you get older and you seem to make no progress.

Anyone who reads the adoption thread on Pricescope can read the story of one poster who was trying to adopt domestically and who had the birth mother change her mind after giving birth, although she and her husband had travelled to be present when the baby was born. She did not give up!

One of the women on the waiting list for a baby from Latin America suddenly, against all known odds, had her (and her husband's) name come up on the Connecticut list for newborn infants from protective services. When we had our January celebration and everyone brought their Hispanic babies to it many people mistook my daughter, Whitney, for the Connecticut baby, who was also there. (Whitney was very white with blue eyes for her first year.) People kept coming up to me and saying, "Oh, you must have the baby born in Connecticut!"

An experienced adopter told me to keep my homestudy done and my international paperwork ready. If a baby showed up suddenly, somewhere, I would be ready to go. And that's what I did. In the end I also (as I mentioned above) actually did all the paperwork for a second source. Sometimes, if you are "plugged in" you suddenly hear some orphanage has a baby...but you have to be ready to go! Don't be bogged down waiting for one place to choose you.

PS-My husband got laid off while we were waiting. We had to take ourselves off the list temporarily, although I had a good job at the time. I was upset then, but like many other people who adopt, I came to feel that by being taken off the list I ended up with "the right baby".

And that's it for my rant to anyone who wants to adopt for now....

 

[vintageloves]

I'm going through this right now. Husband is 43 and I'm 38. There is a lot of hurt there but the worst part of all is the way our parents abandoned us for our siblings with kids. My relationship with them will never recover. My sister in law hates me and my parents let her treat me like dog doo because she has the grandkids so she's the queen. My parents are being taken of advantage completely by them, and their relationship with me and my husband can never be repaired, but these are the choices they have made. Not having children has made me realize how much I really mean to people I thought were close family and friends. Turns out, not much.

International adoption really isn't a thing anymore from what I can gather. Most countries have ended their programs and only offer elementary aged children or children with special needs. Domestic adoption is tough, too. I hate the idea of having to compete with other couples, because my husband and I do not stack up well. Surrogacy is uber expensive and we would have to use an egg donor which makes it more expensive. I have more or less given up because no road seems to go anywhere.

 

[vintageloves]

I just reread this thread. There were some comments about people who had wanted to adopt internationally and found it difficult. I realize that you may not choose to adopt, violet. But to anyone who does, I must say, do not give up!

Someone once told me to say close to others who are adopting and the places from which they are adopting. (The adoption thread here is one example of a place where one used to "hear" things.) Don't just get tied up waiting endlessly on list where you get older and you seem to make no progress.

Anyone who reads the adoption thread on Pricescope can read the story of one poster who was trying to adopt domestically and who had the birth mother change her mind after giving birth, although she and her husband had travelled to be present when the baby was born. She did not give up!

One of the women on the waiting list for a baby from Latin America suddenly, against all known odds, had her (and her husband's) name come up on the Connecticut list for newborn infants from protective services. When we had our January celebration and everyone brought their Hispanic babies to it many people mistook my daughter, Whitney, for the Connecticut baby, who was also there. (Whitney was very white with blue eyes for her first year.) People kept coming up to me and saying, "Oh, you must have the baby born in Connecticut!"

An experienced adopter told me to keep my homestudy done and my international paperwork ready. If a baby showed up suddenly, somewhere, I would be ready to go. And that's what I did. In the end I also (as I mentioned above) actually did all the paperwork for a second source. Sometimes, if you are "plugged in" you suddenly hear some orphanage has a baby...but you have to be ready to go! Don't be bogged down waiting for one place to choose you.

PS-My husband got laid off while we were waiting. We had to take ourselves off the list temporarily, although I had a good job at the time. I was upset then, but like many other people who adopt, I came to feel that by being taken off the list I ended up with "the right baby".

And that's it for my rant to anyone who wants to adopt for now....

No offence, but have you been through the adoption process recently? White couples are now often told by agencies they cannot adopt a hispanic or black child because they won't be able to expose them to the right cultural influences. Most international adoption programs have ended. Getting a baby from an orphanage quite literally never happens today. Most kids in American foster care will be there until they are teens because the state won't cut their parental ties and make them available for adoption. Your advice is very well intentioned and maybe I'm being a colossal bitch for taking exception to it. But adoption is harder in 2019 than it ever has been. No one should feel bad for giving up. Most of the time, the system has given up on them, not the other way around. I just don't want people who are struggling year after year in this to feel like they just didn't have the gumption. Larger numbers will never get a child. No matter what they do, how ready they are, or how long they refuse to give up.

 

[cmd2014]

I was also going to say that things are different now. Most places only allow you to be on one list at once (which is the case where I live), and international adoptions are much more difficult than they used to be. You can’t be both on the domestic and the international list, and if you are on the international list, you have to pick one country (according to the rules where I live), and stick with it, or go to the back of the line for another. DH and I did not give up. We spent 10 years working tirelessly with our adoption agency, paying for home studies every year, re-doing every course that expired, spending more money in the end than we ever did on IVF (while simultaneously adhering to the ridiculous requirements about everything from weight, marital status, age, and net worth), and in the end we aged out with nothing to show for it. We even switched countries when China shut down. I know you are trying to be encouraging, but this is not an issue of determination. Adoption has become really difficult due to restrictions that are put into place because there are so many people and not enough (legally) available children. Where I live, the majority of domestic children available are not white, and due to concerns regarding cultural sensitivity and cultural preservation, these children cannot legally be placed with white families. They are either adopted into their own communities or stay wards of the state until they age out. The private (open) adoptions typically look for religious families from certain cultural backgrounds here (and 8 children are placed per year with a waitlist of 1200 couples, so people pay huge sums of money for professionally produced multimedia packages to try to get picked). The international adoptions became exponentially harder post Hague convention and essentially shut down. Plus China realized that it was creating a demographic crisis by adopting out all their girls (and became increasingly concerned about public image pre-olympics) and also shut their program down. I always thought adoption would be possible for me, as I knew for my whole life that I would struggle with infertility, but it just wasn’t. It upsets me HUGELY how many people without struggles (like my sister) were able to adopt (because for a while it was a status thing for wealthy families to be like Angelina Jolie) and DH and I weren’t. And because she got in before the grand shut down, I spent years hearing how she just didn’t understand why it was so hard for us, when it was so effortless for her. Like there was something secretly wrong with me. It was honestly the most painful experience of my life. We have moved on, but it almost broke us. Financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Try, but go in with your eyes open OP. Hope for the best, but know that it might just be another step in the heartbreak that is being childless not by choice.

 

[AGBF]

No offence, but have you been through the adoption process recently? White couples are now often told by agencies they cannot adopt a hispanic or black child because they won't be able to expose them to the right cultural influences. Most international adoption programs have ended. Getting a baby from an orphanage quite literally never happens today.

Did you look at the adoption thread I linked? Although I adopted in 1992, the Pricescopers posting there adopted, both domestically and internationally, in 2013 and 2014 (which is when the thread was current). There are pictures of their children posted in the thread. I "lived through" many of their experiences with them. While I would never say adoption is easy, it is absolutely not impossible. At least it was not in 2014 and I very much doubt that it is today.

AGBF

 

[cmd2014]

Did you look at the adoption thread I linked? Although I adopted in 1992, the Pricescopers posting there adopted, both domestically and internationally, in 2013 and 2014 (which is when the thread was current). There are pictures of their children posted in the thread. I "lived through" many of their experiences with them. While I would never say adoption is easy, it is absolutely not impossible. At least it was not in 2014 and I very much doubt that it is today.

AGBF

We aged out 2 years ago (2017). The international adoption programs had shut down by then, except for children with significant disabilities or older children with significant psychological or behavioral issues that we did not feel capable of taking on (and our government would not accept in any case given that health care is government subsidized). Adoption was, in fact, impossible for us. ETA, and respectfully, sharing in someone’s experience online is not the same as living through it. I lived through it. I don’t talk about it much. It literally almost killed me. I am still not entirely ok. My husband is still not ok. And painting it not like it is doesn’t help anyone. My IVF doctor flat out told me in 2007 that if IVF didn’t work, I would never have a child, because he understood the adoption hurdle. I didn’t believe him. I wish I did. It would have saved me a mortgage sized amount of money and a heart that was broken again, and again, and again. It was worse than IVF, because at least then I knew when it was time to say enough. The overly optimistic messages we got for adoption kept us in limbo for 10 years. I would not wish that on anyone. Better to know up front than have false hope.

 

[AGBF]

We aged out 2 years ago (2017). The international adoption programs had shut down by then, except for children with significant disabilities or older children with significant psychological or behavioral issues that we did not feel capable of taking on (and our government would not accept in any case given that health care is government subsidized). Adoption was, in fact, impossible for us. ETA, and respectfully, sharing in someone’s experience online is not the same as living through it. I lived through it. I don’t talk about it much. It literally almost killed me. I am still not entirely ok. My husband is still not ok. And painting it not like it is doesn’t help anyone. My IVF doctor flat out told me in 2007 that if IVF didn’t work, I would never have a child, because he understood the adoption hurdle. I didn’t believe him. I wish I did. It would have saved me a mortgage sized amount of money and a heart that was broken again, and again, and again. It was worse than IVF, because at least then I knew when it was time to say enough. The overly optimistic messages we got for adoption kept us in limbo for 10 years. I would not wish that on anyone. Better to know up front than have false hope.

I am sorry for the tremendous hurt and loss you suffered, cmd. I never intended to minimize that. If you feel I did, then I apologize.

Deb

 

[cmd2014]

I’m sorry Deb. I don’t mean to be touchy (which I clearly still am). I’m still working through a few things here. What no one tells you about is that it’s not just sadness and grief and loss. It’s a lot of anger too. Towards people with kids who shouldn’t have them, at the system for taking your money and dangling hope, at celebrities for making it all look so damn easy, at the unfairness of it all, at the innocent comments not intended to hurt, but which do, at your body for betraying you, at the future you won’t have...at all of it. It can sometimes feel like a huge hot mess just under the surface, waiting to burst out. It’s still hard. I’m still hoping to make my way to a place of grace about it, but I’m not there yet, obviously. It’s a work in progress...

 

[amoline]

As a professional photographer, I've had the heartbreaking but true fortune of working with many foster children through an organization here called the Colorado Heart Gallery.

Essentially, professional photographers volunteer our time to get foster kids professional headshot photos, as research shows that portraying the kids in a positive, professional light (pun not intended) significantly improves their chances of being adopted. When we are able to put a direct face to the kids' names, it makes them more personal.

It is heartbreaking because I see the absolute despair in kids' eyes because I see them hopeless, not wanting to do photos -- I see the ones whom I have photographed for 3-4+ years in a row and they have decreasingly less interest in doing them every year, because, their words "It doesn't even make a difference -- I won't find a family anyway"

I don't know in depth how adoption processes truly work or the intricacies of them, so I won't pretend to. But, if your state has something similar like our Colorado Heart Gallery, go seek them out - and instead of getting on a list, go on the website and "shop" kids. Look through the kids and let them speak to you - our job as the photographers is to portray them in such a way that they CAN speak to you through their photos and videos. Organizations like CO heart gallery provide a lot of front loading in terms of financing and paperwork. -- IF it would truly be something you want to do.

And, as a teacher, I see foster kids come through my classrooms and we know who they are. Just this year, a kid in my Freshman English class was told in the Fall she was going to be adopted. A week ago, something happened with it and it fell through and/or the family backed out. I don't even know where I'd begin to imagine the devastation that kiddo must be feeling right now.

So, I guess I unfortunately don't come bearing any good advice, and I certainly wouldn't say it's a straightforward "Never give up! It'll happen!" message, because sometimes (as witnessed in this thread) it truly doesn't happen. But coming from a place where I know kids do get adopted (7 of my photographed kids in 2018 got adopted successfully; their might be hope for something this summer for the kid I have in class) -- I don't think I would say that unfavorable odds mean you should never even try or consider. There are other organizations/ways/methods out there that may be easier or more akin to the situation you're in.

Just my 2c.

And, of course, ultimately, many gentle thoughts your way.

 

[missy]

This is very kind @missy, thank you. My therapist in our last session, said that I really needed to think of being infertile as a disability, because that's just what it is. My body is not capable of what other's body's are, but it's not something I caused or can control. That was actually very helpful, because it did relieve me of some of the burden of carrying around the thought that something was wrong with me of my own doing. I'm working on how to process it all. A gratitude journal sounds like a great idea, so thank you for that @Sparkles88 - I have done that in the past with other sad issues and it did help.

@missy, question for you, since you don't have kids - do most of your friends have them? If not, where do/did you find the other childless people to interact with? Since most of my friends had children later in life, it's going to be a long time before the kids are off doing their own things and my friends are able to socialize again. None of my friends had children in their 20s, so I've got a long road ahead of me. Finding others who are childless is so hard. Thanks again, for your kind words - all of this is very helpful.

Hi Violet3, that's a good question. I never thought about it before but if I had to guess I would say about 50% of our friends have kids and 50% do not. I am very lucky in that my friends who have kids (all of the kids are grown now) did not neglect our friendship when those kids were young. Friendships are a 2 way street of course and it takes 2 to make them work and I was fortunate in that my friends with babies/children always made the effort to keep our friendship strong.

As an example one of my friends who lives in Long Island always drove to me with her 2 little boys every Monday to see me in Brooklyn. She got married in graduate school (we were students together) but did not have her boys till her mid 30s. (Long story and not for PS). Monday was our day off and she would load the kids into the car and drive over to see me and spend the day. It was wonderful and we had a standing Monday date for most Mondays. It wasn't an easy trip but she was happy to visit as it gave her a break from her day to day life with the kids and work and I was happy to see her and the boys. Who have now both graduated from College and are fully grown adult men. Time flies.

I always look at life in stages. Our needs change with each stage and friendships wax and wane. Sometimes life is too hectic and relationships get put on the back burner and at other times they take front and center. We all have our own busy lives and I know with my (true) friends if I don't see or speak with them for a long while it is OK. When we do see each other or pick up the phone to chat it's like no time at all has passed with these friends. Does that make sense? I know we cannot always keep up with each other and the fast pace life takes but when we do catch up with each other we are right back where we were in the relationship and I still feel as close to them and vice versa. With some friends it's easy that way. With other friends maybe not as easy but I always look at life experiences as teaching experiences and I always say thank you for showing me who you are. So I can spend my time and energy on relationships where the other person cares as much about me as I do them. I hope that makes sense.

My advice is please try not to feel sad/bad about people who seem too busy with their children to make time for you. Evaluate it and think about it...is it just because life is too stressful for them at that moment and things will resume as normal when life gets less hectic or is it a symptom of something deeper. And then concentrate on the friendships that matter and put the same amount of energy into their friendship with you as you do with them. That is not to say that you will each be putting in the same energy into the relationship all the time. No. At times you will be making more of an effort and at other times they will. It is not a static thing and that is OK.

Now that we are in our 50s/60s we are all at a different stage of life than you are but my comments hold true no matter what stage of life one is in...



I want to add I always communicate my feelings before making a decision that is as final as ending a relationship.
Without communicating you cannot be sure the other party is on the same page and gets what you are feeling. I occasionally say to my dh I cannot read your mind. Tell me what you are feeling and we can (often) work it out. Exactly.

 

[violet3]

Hi Violet3, that's a good question. I never thought about it before but if I had to guess I would say about 50% of our friends have kids and 50% do not. I am very lucky in that my friends who have kids (all of the kids are grown now) did not neglect our friendship when those kids were young. Friendships are a 2 way street of course and it takes 2 to make them work and I was fortunate in that my friends with babies/children always made the effort to keep our friendship strong.

As an example one of my friends who lives in Long Island always drove to me with her 2 little boys every Monday to see me in Brooklyn. She got married in graduate school (we were students together) but did not have her boys till her mid 30s. (Long story and not for PS). Monday was our day off and she would load the kids into the car and drive over to see me and spend the day. It was wonderful and we had a standing Monday date for most Mondays. It wasn't an easy trip but she was happy to visit as it gave her a break from her day to day life with the kids and work and I was happy to see her and the boys. Who have now both graduated from College and are fully grown adult men. Time flies.

I always look at life in stages. Our needs change with each stage and friendships wax and wane. Sometimes life is too hectic and relationships get put on the back burner and at other times they take front and center. We all have our own busy lives and I know with my (true) friends if I don't see or speak with them for a long while it is OK. When we do see each other or pick up the phone to chat it's like no time at all has passed with these friends. Does that make sense? I know we cannot always keep up with each other and the fast pace life takes but when we do catch up with each other we are right back where we were in the relationship and I still feel as close to them and vice versa. With some friends it's easy that way. With other friends maybe not as easy but I always look at life experiences as teaching experiences and I always say thank you for showing me who you are. So I can spend my time and energy on relationships where the other person cares as much about me as I do them. I hope that makes sense.

My advice is please try not to feel sad/bad about people who seem too busy with their children to make time for you. Evaluate it and think about it...is it just because life is too stressful for them at that moment and things will resume as normal when life gets less hectic or is it a symptom of something deeper. And then concentrate on the friendships that matter and put the same amount of energy into their friendship with you as you do with them. That is not to say that you will each be putting in the same energy into the relationship all the time. No. At times you will be making more of an effort and at other times they will. It is not a static thing and that is OK.

Now that we are in our 50s/60s we are all at a different stage of life than you are but my comments hold true no matter what stage of life one is in...



I want to add I always communicate my feelings before making a decision that is as final as ending a relationship.
Without communicating you cannot be sure the other party is on the same page and gets what you are feeling. I occasionally say to my dh I cannot read your mind. Tell me what you are feeling and we can (often) work it out. Exactly.

Thank you for this thoughtful response @missy - I guess I'm just feeling left out, but I like what you have to say about giving and receiving in a friendship. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[violet3]

We aged out 2 years ago (2017). The international adoption programs had shut down by then, except for children with significant disabilities or older children with significant psychological or behavioral issues that we did not feel capable of taking on (and our government would not accept in any case given that health care is government subsidized). Adoption was, in fact, impossible for us. ETA, and respectfully, sharing in someone’s experience online is not the same as living through it. I lived through it. I don’t talk about it much. It literally almost killed me. I am still not entirely ok. My husband is still not ok. And painting it not like it is doesn’t help anyone. My IVF doctor flat out told me in 2007 that if IVF didn’t work, I would never have a child, because he understood the adoption hurdle. I didn’t believe him. I wish I did. It would have saved me a mortgage sized amount of money and a heart that was broken again, and again, and again. It was worse than IVF, because at least then I knew when it was time to say enough. The overly optimistic messages we got for adoption kept us in limbo for 10 years. I would not wish that on anyone. Better to know up front than have false hope.

I can literally feel your pain through this post @cmd2014 - I'm so sorry, and I can honestly relate to all of this. I appreciate very much your honesty and willingness to share your story, as painful as it is. Thank you so much.

 

[violet3]

I'm going through this right now. Husband is 43 and I'm 38. There is a lot of hurt there but the worst part of all is the way our parents abandoned us for our siblings with kids. My relationship with them will never recover. My sister in law hates me and my parents let her treat me like dog doo because she has the grandkids so she's the queen. My parents are being taken of advantage completely by them, and their relationship with me and my husband can never be repaired, but these are the choices they have made. Not having children has made me realize how much I really mean to people I thought were close family and friends. Turns out, not much.

International adoption really isn't a thing anymore from what I can gather. Most countries have ended their programs and only offer elementary aged children or children with special needs. Domestic adoption is tough, too. I hate the idea of having to compete with other couples, because my husband and I do not stack up well. Surrogacy is uber expensive and we would have to use an egg donor which makes it more expensive. I have more or less given up because no road seems to go anywhere.

Thank you for sharing your story @vintageloves - I'm so sorry that we share this experience. The bolded part above truly resonated with me, because that really is how I feel often as well. It's like you don't even really exist if you don't have the kids - you're just an afterthought, or not a "REAL" person. It's a really crummy feeling, and I'm so sorry you've experienced this also. Sending you tons of hugs across the miles (wherever you live). Thank you for being honest and open about your experience - it really does help.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Violet,

I don't have children. My marriage didn't work out and I was always somewhat on the fence about children. I'm of an age where it really isn't going to happen - had to really face that in the last couple of years - and personally, I've found some peace and relief in that. (I'm single and almost 45.)

To explain, I'm very aware of the upsides of having children. They're so cute, and you can see yourselves and your ancestors in them, perhaps, and they are very loving, especially when small.

However, for some reason I was always hyper-aware of the multiple ways that things can go very, very wrong.

I think the biggest question for people without kids is always, what will life be like if I outlive my spouse and siblings?

Yes, it's a scary thought. But, you know, having kids isn't any guarantee of company and comfort in old age. I have seen some truly breathtaking selfishness on the part of middle-aged adults toward their parents, and I know MANY people who barely seem to bother with their parents at all. My parents did a LOT for my brother, and he basically couldn't wait to leave home and then made it very clear for the rest of their lives that anything to do with them was a burden and a bother. He wanted to live his own life and basically had no time for them. Sadly, this is not unusual.

Kids can break your heart.

I know it probably doesn't help since you really want kids, but FWIW my silver linings are:

- An ability to save for my old age so I can take care of myself. (I took out longterm care insurance.)
- A home that's a refuge from outside stresses.
- Time to do all the things I want.
- Time to cultivate enriching relationships and pursuits: Good friends/playing an instrument/reading great books uninterrupted.
- A sense of control over my life. When you have kids, you don't have as much control over your life or how pleasant your home life is, because their behavior affects you so much. I'm not sure how I would have handled a grumpy teen who was getting in with a bad crowd, for example.

These things may not help you. I'm just listing them because they helped me, and who knows, perhaps sharing helps.

As for the social aspects, well, that's been very interesting.

I do find that people with families seem to value friendship less and are less interested in it. They tend to spend the vast majority of their evenings home with their families - they go right home after work, and that's that.

As for the remarks, oh yeah. Had tons of those. It's my contention that people know exactly what they're doing and that their horrible comments are designed to smoke you out. They want you to be indignant and say, "Actually, I couldn't have them!" or whatever, so they get to know why.

The child issue was a very painful one for me for a very long time. People are less vicious about it these days since we had some deaths in the family and since I've gotten older, but I've decided to respond to any enquiries by simply saying that it's a topic I don't talk about.

If I were you, if anyone throws remarks your way, I would question them. "Sorry, what did you say? I didn't hear. What do you mean?" etc. They won't do it again. People who make remarks are counting on you letting it slide.