People who are bullied need to "grow a pair"

[Nyc2chigal]

I expect a few people to be offended by what I am about to say, but it has to be said, and just proves my point.

We've become a soft society.

We teach our kids to be way too passive.

We get offended way too easily.


Granted, bullying needs to stop, but everything nowadays is taken out of context.

Yes, word do hurt, but if we were taught to not take what some punk a$$ kid tells us to heart, then the problem wouldn't be this out of control.

Nyc2chigal, I just noticed on the other thread you said you were 7 months pregnant. If this is your first child, I would love to hear your thoughts after you've given birth, or after your child has been bullied, in whatever way you define it.

If this isn't your first child, I would love to hear examples of how we as a society have exhibited each of the statements you made above.

We've become a soft society.

We teach our kids to be way too passive.

We get offended way too easily.

Granted, bullying needs to stop, but everything nowadays is taken out of context.

And how you as a parent (if this is your second child) have taught your first child how to handle situations such as you stated above in a way consistent with not being "passive" and not being "offended way too easily".

She is my first, so no other children to talk about.
I can only speak for how I was raised.

I plan on teaching my little girl to have respect for herself, in every way, and of course, for others. This comes from how kids are taught.
Being involved in children's lives also speaks volumes in how they turn out.
I also want to teach her to speak up for herself.

I was bullied in every way since I can remember, and still am.
Did it hurt? Sure, for the moment.
But when I thought about the source of where it came from, and how those people are in no way more valuable than me, I just shook it off.

Knowing the source helps to understand why people do this.

 

[Nyc2chigal]

I expect a few people to be offended by what I am about to say, but it has to be said, and just proves my point.

We've become a soft society.

We teach our kids to be way too passive.

We get offended way too easily.


Granted, bullying needs to stop, but everything nowadays is taken out of context.

Yes, word do hurt, but if we were taught to not take what some punk a$$ kid tells us to heart, then the problem wouldn't be this out of control.

Yep!

You can be caring, welcoming, respectful, diverse, etc. and not be some overly sensitive society that cries "bully" or "harassment" at the slightest word or silence or look.

Darn tootin'

 

[monarch64]

If we have become a soft society, why are we still sending kids to war and killing?

If we're too soft, why do we provide safety nets for people in the form of government assistance?

If we're too soft, why do we provide homeless shelters, work programs, battered women's shelters, etc.?

If no one got offended by bullying, or bullies, where would civil rights be? Where would gay rights be?

I'm not offended by people saying our kids are too passive or that we've become too soft. I think it's a provocative thought and a valid point in this discussion. But it does raise certain questions.

ETA: Your definition of being bullied or harassed probably differs from others, and that's fine. But consider that not everyone is equipped mentally, emotionally, or physically to deal with things that may seem trivial to you.

 

[OreoRosies86]

If we have become a soft society, why are we still sending kids to war and killing?

If we're too soft, why do we provide safety nets for people in the form of government assistance?

If we're too soft, why do we provide homeless shelters, work programs, battered women's shelters, etc.?

If no one got offended by bullying, or bullies, where would civil rights be? Where would gay rights be?

I'm not offended by people saying our kids are too passive or that we've become too soft. I think it's a provocative thought and a valid point in this discussion. But it does raise certain questions.

ETA: Your definition of being bullied or harassed probably differs from others, and that's fine. But consider that not everyone is equipped mentally, emotionally, or physically to deal with things that may seem trivial to you.

This. Thank you for saving me some typing!

 

[monarch64]

No problem, Elliot86. It's a lovely day and I've gotten a lot done already so I am happy to take a few minutes here and there to type out your thoughts.

 

[Circe]

If we have become a soft society, why are we still sending kids to war and killing?

If we're too soft, why do we provide safety nets for people in the form of government assistance?

If we're too soft, why do we provide homeless shelters, work programs, battered women's shelters, etc.?

If no one got offended by bullying, or bullies, where would civil rights be? Where would gay rights be?

I'm not offended by people saying our kids are too passive or that we've become too soft. I think it's a provocative thought and a valid point in this discussion. But it does raise certain questions.

ETA: Your definition of being bullied or harassed probably differs from others, and that's fine. But consider that not everyone is equipped mentally, emotionally, or physically to deal with things that may seem trivial to you.

This. Thank you for saving me some typing!

Another upvote for this one ... I remember being a bullied kid who was a geek, though happily a physically fit one: half the fights I got into were on somebody else's behalf. I don't think that made the other kids week, passive, or soft ... I think it meant they were smaller or less suited to physical altercations (for whatever reason ... everything from asthma to poor coordination to an amped up startle reflex that will leave them shaking). But kids shouldn't have to be capable of passing the SEAL entrance exams to get an education.

When it comes to verbal/social harassment ... I agree that learning to not give a shit about the opinions of others is invaluable. The problem is that it has its own complications - difficulty making friends, for example. I think it makes more sense on a level of social welfare to try to make the bullies more empathetic, as opposed to trying to make their victims tougher. But since that's considerably harder, given that you need to modify a larger number of behaviors (and people!), I think schools tend to take a pass on it, and parents can only work with their own kids, logistically. Either we deal with it systemically, or we resign ourselves to it not being dealt with, I think ....

 

[CJ2008]

ETA: Your definition of being bullied or harassed probably differs from others, and that's fine. But consider that not everyone is equipped mentally, emotionally, or physically to deal with things that may seem trivial to you.

Love this.

 

[packrat]

We did get called into the principals office, many a time. Many...many times. Mom got called in a couple times, and did eventually change her stance, b/c of the goings on that my brother was dealing with, that I had taken it upon myself to deal w/b/c nobody else would.

When I was a senior, one of my teachers asked me to stay after school one day b/c he was having problems w/one of the boys, a sophomore maybe, whatever, doesn't matter. He was a boy who thought he was the be all/end all, and was horribly mean to girls. Some of them didn't even want to come to school anymore. And we were a small school. Teacher sat at his desk and graded papers and by the time I was done, the boy was in tears, sobbing. Fixed. Done.

Lots of that happened. My brother loves those stories. "You made boys cry". The principal ended up adopting a "don't dish it out if you can't take it when Missi gives it back" policy. I didn't care. If you were mean to someone who couldn't defend themselves, then I would take it upon myself to be mean to them. B/c I knew how it felt and by then I had had ENOUGH. We were in the grocery store one day a few years ago and this guy turned the corner, walked a couple steps, saw us, stopped, backed up and took off. JD busted out laughing and I'm like what the hell was that all about? "Don't you recognize that guy? He's the one being a jerk at that party at your brother's who made those girls cry, and you came screeching down the hall and tore him a new one" That had been like 8 years before! I'm like well, BE FRICKING NICE and then I don't have to do shit like that. It's not hard to be nice to people. Don't be mean to my brother and don't be mean to girls or those who can't defend themselves. Then enraged Missi doesn't appear. Simple.

And maybe that was bullying by ME. But I call it justified. Luckily so far my kids experiences haven't been bad..but they're only 10 and 7 now. Middle school comes next year for London. We have had to discuss what "being a bully to me" really means, b/c they learn in school that basically like has been mentioned before, you "could" be a bully for x and x and x, and those reasons do a lot of times just boil down to disagreements etc. Like if I would tell Trapper to go to his room for throwing a fit, he'd scream "You're being a bully to me!" So I think they go to far in the teachings.

BE NICE.

 

[ksinger]

"Start by talking about pressing charges, suing the school district and the principal who allows this to continue."

"It's the school's fault that he had to fight back in the first place."

" too many schools don't do enough to stop bullying and then magnify that mistake by not backing the kid that defend him/herself claiming "zero tolerance" when in fact they tolerated the original bully."

"I do find the original principal quote interesting since he'd be suspending the kid who "grew a pair" and fought back" (the linked article was about a mayor, and did not even contain the text "principal", so I'm not sure where that came from)

" I think schools tend to take a pass on it"




"Common sense" is in short supply everywhere, not just in the public schools. An article about a mayor and safe zones for when school is not in, became the usual frothing rant against the schools. Why am I so not surprised this thread has devolved this way?

Public school administrators are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Ineffective or not, they simply.cannot.win. and are routinely excoriated by someone for whatever policy that someone does not agree with.
They and teachers are pulled in so many directions at once by parents who all want instruction perfectly and totally tailored to THEIR little darling (but don't increase my taxes, no sir), and activists who think that they should now be picking up the slack for (insert un-funded social service of choice), to politicians who have no clue what the word "curriculum" means and try to assure us all that "standards" are the same thing, that it's a wonder they don't explode in a zillion directions every single day. You see it in this very thread.

Let the kids handle it? Not only do you have a potential war-zone in the school, then according to one faction of parents you are negligent for not seeing it or stopping it (because public school teachers are supposed to have perfect knowledge, timing and nuance to know exactly what is "enough fighting back" versus what is "too much" according to the ideas of whatever parent is all up in their face at that moment) and likely some indignant parent is going to sue the district when Little Johnny finally gets fed up and decks Little Spike. And little Spike's parents will likely try to sue in reverse. Because yanno, suing EVERYBODY all the time is such an effective way to get things to change in your favor.

Set up a safe zone, or have a zero tolerance policy? You are clearly being unfair to those who would fight back, and/or mollycoddling kids into being wimps, say another faction of parents.

Or better yet, report suspected parental abuse (as is required by law) and which is much more prevalent than "schools who pass" on "bullying awareness", and for your trouble have the high-powered lawyer parents of said kid threaten your district, and you with your job. (happened to a friend of my husband) It goes on and on.

Maybe we should just lock the zero-tolerance parents, the suck-it-up-and-grow-a-pair parents, and the the-admin-should-see-every-sparrow-that-falls-and-make-the-call-I-would parents in a room and let THEM duke it out and decide the one policy that will work perfectly for every single kid. Or better yet, for the love of sweet good grief, can we please just hasten the inevitable demise of publics in favor of for-profit publicly funded and re-segregated privates that are paid to cater to the ideology of each of the homogeneous parental factions that fund them - and ensure that only people and policies that the parents agree with, will have contact with Little Johnny.

Seriously, this is one of those times when I'm just about fed up with "parents". Schools are a microcosm of the larger society. They will NOT solve its problems no matter how much society and parents would like to dump them there, they just cast them in high relief. If you don't like the way the schools look, then put yourself in the picture, because no parent gets to point the finger at the schools like they had no part of creating what is there. Parents create the product that is there(the students), and (surprise) parents (yes, teachers and administrators also have children) work there. The place is simply riddled with parents and parental assumptions. And NONE of them agree.

My husband of the rhino-hide, is much more matter-of-fact and inured to getting too het up about such things as the parent-initiated policy-du-jour, but really, he needs to quit teaching because it's killing ME. I'm fed up with the corrosive disrespect, even if HE is not. After 20 years fighting the thankless fight, I'm encouraging him to GET OUT.

And thanks to Smitcompton for "getting it".

 

[minousbijoux]

Yup, my son fought back and was reprimanded by the school principal instead for standing his ground.

He's lucky he was only reprimanded! When my older son first started middle school, he was bothered repeatedly by one kid until finally it came to blows. Both kids were suspended for three days! Can you imagine - not even a month into a new school and you are suspended for defending yourself? My son was okay with that, but what caused him great concern was that as the apparent victor, he was roundly congratulated by the kids watching. He came home and said "Mom, what was weird was all the kids who were high fiving me afterwards."

 

[LLJsmom]

Yup, my son fought back and was reprimanded by the school principal instead for standing his ground.

He's lucky he was only reprimanded! When my older son first started middle school, he was bothered repeatedly by one kid until finally it came to blows. Both kids were suspended for three days! Can you imagine - not even a month into a new school and you are suspended for defending yourself? My son was okay with that, but what caused him great concern was that as the apparent victor, he was roundly congratulated by the kids watching. He came home and said "Mom, what was weird was all the kids who were high fiving me afterwards."

He was probably getting high fives from all the kids that had also been harassed by this kid, and appreciated him for not taking it any more and solving their collective problem too. I have no clue of course, but just my guess.

 

[minousbijoux]

Now reading through the rest of the thread, I would add that as the kids grow into middle school and beyond, there are generally greater differences between male to male, or male to female bullying than female to female bullying, with violence more likely to play a role with adolescent boys, unfortunately.

 

[minousbijoux]

Yup, my son fought back and was reprimanded by the school principal instead for standing his ground.

He's lucky he was only reprimanded! When my older son first started middle school, he was bothered repeatedly by one kid until finally it came to blows. Both kids were suspended for three days! Can you imagine - not even a month into a new school and you are suspended for defending yourself? My son was okay with that, but what caused him great concern was that as the apparent victor, he was roundly congratulated by the kids watching. He came home and said "Mom, what was weird was all the kids who were high fiving me afterwards."

He was probably getting high fives from all the kids that had also been harassed by this kid, and appreciated him for not taking it any more and solving their collective problem too. I have no clue of course, but just my guess.

That might have been part of it, but I'm afraid to say that I think there was also an element of winner is congratulated, no matter what. In other words, strength is revered. Tough school, sadly.

 

[VRBeauty]

She is my first, so no other children to talk about.
I can only speak for how I was raised.

I plan on teaching my little girl to have respect for herself, in every way, and of course, for others. This comes from how kids are taught.
Being involved in children's lives also speaks volumes in how they turn out.
I also want to teach her to speak up for herself.

I was bullied in every way since I can remember, and still am.
Did it hurt? Sure, for the moment.
But when I thought about the source of where it came from, and how those people are in no way more valuable than me, I just shook it off.

Knowing the source helps to understand why people do this.

I'm glad you're planning to raise your child not to bully and not to be susceptible to bullying. I'm sure instilling a sense of self-worth and respect for others is part of the solution. But I'm also sure not all but that are fortunate enough to such caring and enlightened parents, and I'm sure that not all parents will be able to achieve these goals no matter how hard they try, because kids are being bombarded by messages of how they "should" be etc. from all over, not just in their homes and because some parents just don't have the tools to inoculate their children against bullying. One of my brothers was bullied by a primary grade teacher, someone he was supposed to be able trust and who he had been taught to respect.

Personally I suspect that the "grow a pair" response is an Ozzie and Harriet response, i.e. the let's just pretend we're all back in the 50's again when these problems "didn't exist" type response.

 

[LLJsmom]

"Start by talking about pressing charges, suing the school district and the principal who allows this to continue."

"It's the school's fault that he had to fight back in the first place."

" too many schools don't do enough to stop bullying and then magnify that mistake by not backing the kid that defend him/herself claiming "zero tolerance" when in fact they tolerated the original bully."

"I do find the original principal quote interesting since he'd be suspending the kid who "grew a pair" and fought back" (the linked article was about a mayor, and did not even contain the text "principal", so I'm not sure where that came from)

" I think schools tend to take a pass on it"

That is the nature of being a public administrator of a public school. It is between a rock and a hard place. But I'm not going to try to make the life of a negligent principal easier at the price of the safety and welfare of MY child. When my child gets physically abused, threatened and violated, it is not his job to take that as a "learning experience", per the principal at my son's school. It is MY job to be the protector of and advocate for my children. That is why they are under MY legal guardianship until the age of 18. So it would not be realistic to expect me to say "it's all ok. The public schools are crowded. There aren't enough people watching the playground. Kids will be kids. Don't overreact." when my son comes home, tells me he was choked around the neck while another kid held him down and punched him in the stomach, and another one tries to break his arm. "Sure, I understand. That happens. The teachers are trying their best."

NO. I WOULD BE NEGLIGENT AS A PARENT, NOT TO MENTION CALLOUS AND CRUEL. As hard as a job as the public school administrators have, I certainly am exercising MY common sense to escalate this immediately. So, I stand by everything I have said and done. It is based on my experience and the experience of my family. I pay my taxes and have a right to send my child to a school where his physical safety is NOT threatened on a daily basis. And if that causes the administrators inconvenience and it puts them in a tough place, so be it.

And to address the last part, I am doing my part in the school, to address a bullying situation that exists. Because if it wasn't my son, it would have been someone else's.

 

[miraclesrule]

This really is a complicated issue and dismissive cavalier attitudes toward the complexity is not going to help resolve it.

Oops, work beckons. I'll be back.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My apologies for attributing remarks to a principal when they were from the mayor. I obviously confused some of the later posts with the original. But the mayor doesn't make policy for schools, school boards do and the principal carries it out at his her her school. The principal is ultimately responsible for what goes on in their building, and safety of the children is #1 and #2 is that the children are taught what they are supposed to learn.

I taught in public schools for over 25 years. I worked a few in a middle school and a high school. By the time I finished, I decided our youngest would be going to different schools. As I said earlier, my son was bullied physically and no one ever reported it. But some of it was in the classroom, so where was the teacher and why was there not one child who had the courage to report it? Thankfully I observed enough that made us send the youngest to a safer school.

LLJsmom

 

[Sky56]

I wish I had the ability "to grow a pair" when I was a kid. The bullies were horrible. I have a great life now but still suffer from the scars from it. The upside is that I am a sensitive, considerate, gentle person because I learned what I did not want to be like from that experience.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Three out of my four boys experienced some sort of bullying. They are not the kind of boys that you would expect to be bullied. All three are outgoing, athletic with lots of friends. The other day I had a moment with my youngest. He had been bullied from 7th grade. It was stopped and the kid was asked to leave the (private) school. Anyway, his history class was completing projects that were presented in front of the class with some audio visual stuff included. There is a girl in his class who is mentally challenged. Casey (son) had to leave the room for a few minutes and missed her presentation. After class he saw her crying and asked her what was wrong and she said her presentation hadn't gone well, the audio/visual stuff had messed up and everyone laughed at her. He gave her a hug and told her not to worry about it and it would be fine, and the other kids were messed up for laughing at her. That it could have easily happened to them too, and that some (computer) things just come easier to some people. I remember thinking that I wished all kids could show that empathy. Now I wonder if his experiences helped grow that empathy. If so, I am so glad for it.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Three out of my four boys experienced some sort of bullying. They are not the kind of boys that you would expect to be bullied. All three are outgoing, athletic with lots of friends. The other day I had a moment with my youngest. He had been bullied from 7th grade. It was stopped and the kid was asked to leave the (private) school. Anyway, his history class was completing projects that were presented in front of the class with some audio visual stuff included. There is a girl in his class who is mentally challenged. Casey (son) had to leave the room for a few minutes and missed her presentation. After class he saw her crying and asked her what was wrong and she said her presentation hadn't gone well, the audio/visual stuff had messed up and everyone laughed at her. He gave her a hug and told her not to worry about it and it would be fine, and the other kids were messed up for laughing at her. That it could have easily happened to them too, and that some (computer) things just come easier to some people. I remember thinking that I wished all kids could show that empathy. Now I wonder if his experiences helped grow that empathy. If so, I am so glad for it.

Every child should have a Casey at their school.

 

[CJ2008]

Three out of my four boys experienced some sort of bullying. They are not the kind of boys that you would expect to be bullied. All three are outgoing, athletic with lots of friends. The other day I had a moment with my youngest. He had been bullied from 7th grade. It was stopped and the kid was asked to leave the (private) school. Anyway, his history class was completing projects that were presented in front of the class with some audio visual stuff included. There is a girl in his class who is mentally challenged. Casey (son) had to leave the room for a few minutes and missed her presentation. After class he saw her crying and asked her what was wrong and she said her presentation hadn't gone well, the audio/visual stuff had messed up and everyone laughed at her. He gave her a hug and told her not to worry about it and it would be fine, and the other kids were messed up for laughing at her. That it could have easily happened to them too, and that some (computer) things just come easier to some people. I remember thinking that I wished all kids could show that empathy. Now I wonder if his experiences helped grow that empathy. If so, I am so glad for it.

Beautiful story luv2sparkle - I don't know if it's bias or a double standard - but I am touched and impressed by this kind of stuff even more when empathy comes from boys, who are normally taught to be "tough."

 

[LLJsmom]

My apologies for attributing remarks to a principal when they were from the mayor. I obviously confused some of the later posts with the original. But the mayor doesn't make policy for schools, school boards do and the principal carries it out at his her her school. The principal is ultimately responsible for what goes on in their building, and safety of the children is #1 and #2 is that the children are taught what they are supposed to learn.

LLJsmom

Thank you DS. I am very respectful of people who have committed themselves to teaching children. I am especially impressed that you stayed with it for 25 years. My DH taught in a rough public highschool for several years and had to break up more than his share of fights. It was an extremely thankless job but so important.

And I am so sorry that your youngest was bullied. Someone should have said something, a teacher, a classmate.

 

[LLJsmom]

Three out of my four boys experienced some sort of bullying. They are not the kind of boys that you would expect to be bullied. All three are outgoing, athletic with lots of friends. The other day I had a moment with my youngest. He had been bullied from 7th grade. It was stopped and the kid was asked to leave the (private) school. Anyway, his history class was completing projects that were presented in front of the class with some audio visual stuff included. There is a girl in his class who is mentally challenged. Casey (son) had to leave the room for a few minutes and missed her presentation. After class he saw her crying and asked her what was wrong and she said her presentation hadn't gone well, the audio/visual stuff had messed up and everyone laughed at her. He gave her a hug and told her not to worry about it and it would be fine, and the other kids were messed up for laughing at her. That it could have easily happened to them too, and that some (computer) things just come easier to some people. I remember thinking that I wished all kids could show that empathy. Now I wonder if his experiences helped grow that empathy. If so, I am so glad for it.

Yay!! Good for Casey. He had the courage to be himself. That speaks volumes about his family and how he was brought up. Kudos to you luv2.

 

[Sky56]

Thank you for posting about Casey! You made me smile and feel hope for the future!

 

[luv2sparkle]

Thanks everyone for the sweet words about Casey. He is certainly not that empathetic or even kind all the time. He is a teenage boy! What I can hope for all of us who have kids that have gone through hard stuff, that we would sure like to erase if we could, is that it would give them empathy. Even if it is just a moment when they can feel someone else's pain.