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Paver problems, need advice...

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butterfly 17

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
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Hi guys, as some of you know, I bought a new house a few months ago and since then everything has been going nicely. We''ve settled in fairly well and have had virtually no problems.
We''ve also pretty much finished with the furniture shopping as the only room I really needed to furnish was my family room (kept all the old furniture from the old house) and my older daughters room, which I furnished with a set that I have had my eye on for so long and even posted about in furniture lust.

So, the problem is the backyard. When we first moved, the backyard was completely empty. Basically a retangle with just grass. My husband got this brilliant idea
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that we would put an inground pool in and do pavers for a patio and pavers in the front of the house for our driveway and walkways. I only wanted the pavers, but he insisted on the pool and we decided to just do it while we had the money and could afford it.

We went ahead and got an estimate for both from a few different people and decided on who had the better prices and work and signed contracts for both. The pool was put in in August in one weeks time. Perfect except that the guy still has to give me some money back for screwing up my sprinklers and install some valves. Fine.

The paver guy on the other hand is killing me. I can''t take it anymore. To begin with, we signed contract with him on June 25th. He told us he would get the pavers in two weeks and the work would be done in 7 days.

As of yet, he still has not even put down the pavers. It''s been almost 3 months. Every time I speak to him, he says he will come tomorrow and then he never shows up. He always has an excuse. Either he is sick or his men didn''t show up or my sprinklers need to be fixed first.

And he doesn''t bother to call when he doesn''t show up either! I wind up calling him around 12, then he says he will come at 1 then around 3 I call when I see he hasn''t shown and sometimes he doesn''t even bother to pick up the phone.

I have already paid him more than 2/3rds of the payment in cash, with receipts of course. Two weeks ago he put down the cement and it splattered on parts of my windows, fence, siding and stucco. It''s also on the street right in front of my driveway. He said he would clean it up but as of yet, he still hasn''t shown up. He keeps saying the pavers are coming but I still don''t see them in front of my house.

On top of this, my neighbor complained to me yesterday that he just noticed that the cement has splattered in the front of his car
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and now he is mad at my paver guy and wants a word with him.

It finally got the point that today, I powerwashed off some of the cement stuck to my stucco because I was afraid it would stay forever.

Not to mention that the Cherry Blossom tree that they were supposed to replant on the side of my house, they removed it from my driveway, looks dead, because they never came back when they promised to replant it. They finished removing my driveway on a Friday ( two months back) and said they were coming back on Monday and would replant it for me then. They didn''t come back for 3 weeks!!! In the meantime, I didn''t realize that the tree had to be planted right away and by the time I did realize it, it had shriveled up, and even though we did plant it by Wednesday. it''s dead.

And that''s not to mention my sprinklers. Everytime they do some digging, they damage my sprinkler connections. To the point that I have already paid $615 to have them repaired. One of the sprinklers was damaged from the pool guy so at least he told me he would pay that for me. But the other damage is from this guy''s workers and everytime they dig, there''s another leak and I have had to call the sprinkler guy 4 times already because one of the paver guy''s excuses is that he can''t finish the job because the sprinkler need to be fixed.

Finally I told him that every time I do have the sprinklers fixed, they start digging again and damage them again. Then he tells me if it''s damaged he can''t work until it''s fixed, so it''s like a never ending story.

I don''t know how to get this guy to complete the work. My neighbor asked me again today when he was going to show up so he could talk the the guy about the cement on his car. I told him it was supposed to be today, but he never showed up again!!!!
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He seemed like a reputable guy, since I moved in I have seem him do two other homes on my block on my side of the street and he did a couple of other homes on our block and his work is impressive.

I am not sure how to proceed with him anymore.....Help!
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I don''t know if it''s possible at this point, but can you get someone else (with a better work ethic) to come in and finish the job? Of course after you obtain a full refund from this current idiot paver guy...by the way, is the current guy the owner of the company, or can you get in touch with the owner or his boss and let them know what has been going on? The whole thing is ridiculous, it should never have taken this long in the first place, and the work that has been done should''ve been done right the first time.
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I am angry just reading your story, I can''t believe how contractors take advantage of situations like yours and give people the run around or don''t follow through. Best of luck to you in this fiasco.
 
We are in the middle of sprinkler repair too. It is a nightmare. There are many service men that WILL not do a job with existing sprinkler lines, as they will spend far too much time do the repair themselves...and that isn't what you hired them for. I understand his intrepidation to disturb the system.

But in my opinion as soon as he learned the shallowness or the placement of the system was going to be an issue, he should have given you two options.

1. Forgo the system and have a new one installed by a professional.

2. Or find another paver installer.

He didn't bill you enough for both the sprinkler and the paver work. He is caught in a mess. He can't know everything there is to know about sprinklers and paving...the two don't mingle and don't mix. Unless of course he is also a sprinkler man...then my opinion means squat. There are new lines and heads now used that flex...and can take some wiggle room. When you apply a lot of weight on top of them...you need some flexibility. You do have easy fixes if you can find someone willing to help.

Bottom line is I think you hired a dud. He has no reason to be motivated. He has made more money from you in inaction than he has in work. I don't mean to beat you up while you are down in the mud and torn up back yard...but the payment should have been doled out in increments of work completed. If he needed $$$$ to start...that is your first indication that he is running his business in the red...and has no money to supply the materials. If he had the money and you stiffed him, he could put a lien on your home. It would take time to get the money back...but that is how a pro goes forth with commissioned work.

Contact the BBB, the city business license area, contact and try to locate his source of materials. Speak to the manager there and find out if this guy has a good standing credit/relation with the paver company. You can learn a lot about them by LISTENING when you mention his name. Be sneaky say you are thinking about hiring him. Listen to what you hear. Then ask for two other installers. Call them out for an estimate and see what comments you get...as if this is an easy fix...or wow I wouldn't tackle this unfinished work for nothing.

Then stand back and weigh all you negatives. If his column adds up to KA KA...file a small claims court action. Take pictures. Take notes. right down dates. Contacts. Phone call. Get opinions...then hire another to finish. Time to move on. Sweetie, honest.

From this point onward...NEVER PAY anything without an invoice showing materials and get get a copy of the paid receipt from the source of materials (the paver store). So again, every invoice you pay, will have his invoice and the source invoice attached. The material list of 50 bricks will match. Why? He can be billing you at the paver store!!! And pocketing your cash you paid him. That is a nightmare. It is possible your flake has done this already. You may be owing money and not even know it.

I hope that last paragraph got you motivated. You have to be diligent, now.


DKS
 
thanks for the responses. I did speak to him today and he told me he would definitely come tomorrow. YEah, right!!! I have already told him that I will give him by next week, Sept. 25 and if it is not done by then, then I expect my money back. I guess I will wait and see....
 
Date: 9/19/2007 11:21:58 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
He didn''t bill you enough for both the sprinkler and the paver work. He is caught in a mess. He can''t know everything there is to know about sprinklers and paving...the two don''t mingle and don''t mix. Unless of course he is also a sprinkler man...then my opinion means squat. There are new lines and heads now used that flex...and can take some wiggle room. When you apply a lot of weight on top of them...you need some flexibility. You do have easy fixes if you can find someone willing to help.

Bottom line is I think you hired a dud. He has no reason to be motivated. He has made more money from you in inaction than he has in work. I don''t mean to beat you up while you are down in the mud and torn up back yard...but the payment should have been doled out in increments of work completed. If he needed $$$$ to start...that is your first indication that he is running his business in the red...and has no money to supply the materials. If he had the money and you stiffed him, he could put a lien on your home. It would take time to get the money back...but that is how a pro goes forth with commissioned work.


From this point onward...NEVER PAY anything without an invoice showing materials and get get a copy of the paid receipt from the source of materials (the paver store). So again, every invoice you pay, will have his invoice and the source invoice attached. The material list of 50 bricks will match. Why? He can be billing you at the paver store!!! And pocketing your cash you paid him. That is a nightmare. It is possible your flake has done this already. You may be owing money and not even know it.

I hope that last paragraph got you motivated. You have to be diligent, now.


DKS

Hi DKS,

Actually just to clarify, he is not the sprinkler guy. The sprinkler guy is the one who has billed me the $615 for the work that the paver guy messed up. This cost has nothing to do with what I am actually paying for the pavers. That is completely seperate.

As far as the payments, in retrospect, I should have paid him in increments, but our agreement was three installments, one on contract, one when the work started and one when it was all done.

I asked my three neighbors that used him how they paid him before I signed contract with him and two of them told me they did three payments and one told me she did two, half on contract and the other half when it was done.


I also got estimates from three other paver companies and they all told me the same thing he did. One third payment on contract, one third payment when the work starts and the last third on completion of the job. So when this paver guy told me this, I did not suspect anything wrong with that arrangement.

Even when I put my pool in, that was how I paid the pool company, in three payments as well.


I just hope he comes tomorrow....
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I don''t have any fab advice, I can only offer sympathy. We are going through something similar with out new house and landscape designer. I''m dreading the actual yard installation!
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Hopefully he comes through. Was he a licensed contractor? I don''t know about in your state, but, here in CA that makes a huge difference.
 
OH, I see. Upon reading your OP and your follow up it does sound better than my original thought. It sounded to me that you have paid him a large amount of the completed job, and all you got was damage to your sprinkler system, and a ton of excuses. And you are still without progress.

I automatically went in the defense mode for you and thought this guy was a fly by night operation leaving unfinished work everywhere. Is still stand byhand my suggestion on invoicing...when materials are used. Labor is one thing...but materials can be billed to your job site and used on another. That is what I was thinking was the problem here...he got behind, and now can''t track back to where he should be.

All I can say now, is welcome to the Joy of Homeownership. Yeah, we have them too. A job that should have cost $40k ended up costing $125k and a ton of our own labor to get it done right. And that is ONE example.

Please post his appearance tomorrow...was it? Anyway dusting to make him do the right thing.

DKS
 
Oh what a pain. I just wanted to wish you the best of luck!

We''re having our deck rebuilt right now. The contractor is really slacking. Unfortunetly, the contractor is my husband, lol, so well, you know. Hopefully he gets it finished soon. We got a new hot tub installed a few months back and my husband only built up the part that would make it easy to access the hot tub! lol
 
Welll, he didn''t show up yesterday. I tried calling him and his phone would not take incoming calls, so by chance I called his old cell phone number and guess what? he picked up and sounded really surprised to hear me.

So he gave me an explanation that he got stuck on another job that was taking longer than he expected but definitely he was coming on Monday and would be finished in 4 or 5 days.

I just want to choke the guy, but I am sure that the pavers will never get done if I do that, so I guess I won''t. LOL, or not.....


I did have a question about the pool though. I noticed that the bottom edges of the shallow end are kind of lumpy and uneven. Is this normal? I noticed it before when I went into it the first time, but didn''t really bother with it because you can''t really tell unless you are standing in those spots and you can''t really see it from above, but when the pool light is on at night, it is very noticeable.

Since we just had the pool light turned on this week, I actually just noticed the indentations two nights ago and my husband didn''t notice it until I pointed it out( but now he is extremely bothered by it), so I am not sure if it''s just me being really picky or what.

My friend said that happened to her pool, and it''s normal from footprints, etc., but my other friend said it isn''t and needs to be fixed.

Anyone else have this problem. I may start a thread on it.
 
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