Parents and non-parents

[CJ2008]

I don''t have kids - I like them, but I am not sure I want any of my own.

A couple of times already while at the gym the women I happen to be next to will talk about their kids non-stop - what did this one say, what did that one do, etc. - the whole time.* Our friends had a baby a couple of months back and she keeps sending us all kinds of pictures. Her kid''s adorable - but I don''t want to see pictures every other week - or actually, see tons of pictures...sometimes I also get the impression that there''s this underlying "I''m a mother now and you couldn''t possibly understand" like if I ask her a simple question about scheduling anything (for example, a phone call so we could talk, rather than keep missing each other) I get a little lecture how the baby isn''t on a time schedule. It''s a little annoying - I am wondering if any of you felt annoyed by these kinds of things before you had kids...or maybe you still do, I don''t know. And for those of you who have kids, do you find your non-kid friends annoying now?

*as I read this before posting, I realize that I wouldn''t think twice about it (and would probably actually enjoy) if these women talked about work non-stop...so I''m sure it''s partly due to where my head''s at

 

[luckystar112]

Well I don''t have kids, but I understand how you feel. I definitely want children, and I totally get that everyone thinks they have the best kid ever born.

At the same time, I know what it is like to get tons of photos of people''s kids. Really random photos too. Not like "first Easter" or something special like that, more like "Here''s so and so eating peas for the first time!" Like I care. Okay, that sounded meaner than I intended it to. Of course I love everyone''s children...and I love seeing them and holding them, being sent vids through email, periodic updates, etc. But one photo a year is plenty, especially if we aren''t related.
With that being said I''m sure I''ll take a million photos of my future kids and want to talk about them nonstop! I''ll just save it for the people who care, like my parents and other moms.

 

[strmrdr]

Worse is when you out to dinner with a group of mostly couples and about 3/4 parents of small kids and they start discussing baby poo at the table and comparing stories EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

[Rhea]

I feel the same with one of my friends. I have three friends with children. One couple handles is very well, the baby is important, we always discuss the baby. But the mother puts a time limit on it. If we''re talking she very artfully manages to go from baby to adult life and not let it the baby talk dominate the entire conversation. Right now her kid is about 7 months old so it could get worse, but she''s really just great.

Another person I can''t ever think of what to say to her anymore. All she talks about is the baby and I could never understand anything. Our friendship is gone. There''s no substance to it any longer and I feel very disrespected that she seems to think my time isn''t valuable because I don''t have any offspring. I''ve tried to broach the subject with her because I don''t think she''s doing it on purpose, but it didn''t work.

 

[Maisie]

I have five children. I love being a mother but I also love talking about other stuff. I will talk about my kids if someone asks how they are but mostly I like to talk about different things than baby poop or teenage angst.

My husband and I love to talk about the children though. We spend a lot of our time just marvelling at how wonderful it is to be parents.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/29/2008 11:03:41 PM
Author:CJ2008
I don''t have kids - I like them, but I am not sure I want any of my own.

A couple of times already while at the gym the women I happen to be next to will talk about their kids non-stop - what did this one say, what did that one do, etc. - the whole time.* Our friends had a baby a couple of months back and she keeps sending us all kinds of pictures. Her kid''s adorable - but I don''t want to see pictures every other week - or actually, see tons of pictures...sometimes I also get the impression that there''s this underlying ''I''m a mother now and you couldn''t possibly understand'' like if I ask her a simple question about scheduling anything (for example, a phone call so we could talk, rather than keep missing each other) I get a little lecture how the baby isn''t on a time schedule. It''s a little annoying - I am wondering if any of you felt annoyed by these kinds of things before you had kids...or maybe you still do, I don''t know. And for those of you who have kids, do you find your non-kid friends annoying now?

*as I read this before posting, I realize that I wouldn''t think twice about it (and would probably actually enjoy) if these women talked about work non-stop...so I''m sure it''s partly due to where my head''s at

I''m not the most maternal minded of people and I''ve never been into babies or kids at all - I don''t think I''ve ever picked up my 2 year old nephew (sounds awful I know...).

A few of my friends already have children including my bff. I found it created a huge gulf between us - not that we didn''t still get on, but she had different priorities and her live revolved around the kids which was something I couldn''t identify with in the way that her other friends with kids could.

I''m now 4 months pg and find that my relationship with my ''friends with children'' is now closer and more like it was pre-kids.

I''ve always been someone who has a lot of hobbies and interests and I don''t intend to give those up. Even now, I''d far rather discuss gemstones than scan photos and morning sickness with people. I''ve watched my sister become a person whose entire existance revolves around her offspring and I don''t intend to follow suit.

For that reason DH and I have decided that we won''t try for no.2 until this one is around 5 years old even if that means we end up not being able to have a second (I would be 42). I want to enjoy my child and enjoy MY life!

ETA: On the photo side, I would love to know why parents send photos of their child covered in baby food? It positively grosses me out. Yuck!

 

[CJ2008]

Most of what everyone said is exactly how I feel...

Pandora, I cracked up when I saw your post because I identify with a lot of things you say often - you and I are a lot alike. So when I read the part about the pictures of kids with food all over themselves I had to show my DH. No more than about 3 weeks ago these friends of ours sent us about 5 pictures of their baby with food all over his face - and both me and DH were like, now why would they send us that? Can''t they tell it''s cute to them, gross to everyone else?

strmrdr, thankfully, I have not had your same dinner experience - then again, we haven''t been out to dinner with them since their baby was born, because they live out of the state. But they''re coming to visit soon so we''ll see...

I too feel that this friend says comments that imply my time is less valuable - it''s like everything needs to be centered around her. Like of course I can switch my time around because I''m not taking care of anybody else but myself.

I think I''d be a loving mother and would probably be very attached to my child (part of the reason why I don''t think I want one - I like to do what I want, when I want)...but I don''t think I would "forget" that not everyone wants to see 100 pictures of my kids, or get pictures every couple of weeks, or hear about my baby or teenager 24/7...except like Lucky said, the grandparents...

 

[Independent Gal]

I think this phenomenon is like anything else in life: weddings, babies, grieving, careers. We have to accept that what is really important to us isn't necessarily interesting to anyone else. Nobody cares about your wedding or your baby or your grieving or your career as much as you do. Mostly, people like to connect with you and to talk about their own experiences. Friendships are often grounded in shared interests and experiences, or else in trying to understand and share the other's interests and experiences.

So, if you want to preserve and cultivate your friendships, then whatever you are going through, you have to limit the amount of time you devote to talking about your own experience if that experience is not shared by your friend. Sure, a good friend should want to hear about and come to understand what you're going through, should want to vicariously enjoy whatever is important to you and vicariously suffer through what makes you sad. But the fact of the matter is, if you only talk about your own stuff and don't make efforts to ask other people about what is going on with them, to listen attentively, to try to understand them, and to share with them and support them, if you only talk about yourself and your own experiences, then you are not a good friend or a good conversationalist.

This extends to overwhelming them with pictures of your dirty food-smeared baby. It's self-absorbed and shows a lack of perspective about the relative importance of your child or your status as a parent in the scheme of things.

This is the same whether you are working through grief at the loss of a child, or enjoying the growing and development of a live child. I also think it's ridiculous when people expect you to care as much about their kid's every move, as though they were the first person to raise a child. I love seeing a picture of my friends' kids as they grow and make a point of asking to see pictures periodically, but if they sent 10 pictures every week, I'd be hugely annoyed too. Because it's self-centered.

And in kind, if I'm blessed with more kids, I won't send 10 pictures to my friends every week, even though I'm sure every tiny thing my kid does will seem like an extraordinary miracle to me. Similarly, nor do I spend all my time talking to my friends about my grieving right now. I ask them how THEY are, I want to hear about THEIR children, about THEIR plans and hopes and stresses. They listen to me and try to understand me, and I listen to them and try to understand them.

When people lose sight of this and just focus on themselves and what is important to them, and think it is just as important to everyone else they are being self-absorbed. They are being bad friends and lame conversation partners.

Even your closest friends don't want to hear about your wedding or your baby or your loss of a baby ALL THE TIME. Pay attention to others. Take their cues about how they are feeling and how interested they are. And choose friends who listen to you and confide in you in turn, who try to form connections, and not to obsess over themselves alone. A good lesson to learn.

 

[princesss]

Date: 11/30/2008 12:39:54 PM
Author: Independent Gal
They listen to me and try to understand me, and I listen to them and try to understand them.

Mini-threadjack:

Indy, I think that''s a fantastic explanation of what happens in a friendship.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

It is amazing to me that parents think their kids are the best, smartest, cutest, sweetest kids in the world. Well, *now* that I am a mom I totally *get* it. DH and I have countless conversations about how perfect our daughter is b/c to us she is. But I also understand that while she may be the light of our lives some people just don''t care. My daughter is extremely social and loves to "flirt" with strangers. Most people really enjoy it, smile back, say hi, etc...but there is ALWAYS someone who GLARES at her like she is really bothering them. I guess they are just not kid people but it still amazes me when you see a baby smiling at you it is POSSIBLE not to smile back. I am guessing people like them wouldn''t be friends with many parents but it is sometimes impossible not to gush. Most of our friendships are with other parents. Works out great. They gush, we gush...it is mutual. There is a mommy bond and it is strong. I really do believe that. I think most parents are just so in love it is hard not to want to share every little moment. But with childless friends I do try not to talk about her too much. But it is hard b/c I am a SAHM so she IS my life...literally.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

The picture thing drives me nuts, not because parents send me them but because I''m the ones with the kids and who is sending them out (ONLY once a year in holiday cards), yet I never know who to send pictures to and who not to. DH and I''ve been very good about sending out photos and this is the first Christmas we decided not to because I''m wondering now if anyone even cares or just sticks the photos in a drawer or the garbage! Maybe I''m annoying other people even with a picture of each of my sons?

All my friends have kids and I doubt I''d want to be friends with a person who didn''t like kids. . . the friend wouldn''t need to have kids, but would at least have a good attitude about them. Having or not having kids won''t make or break a friendship as long as you have stuff in common and "click."

 

[LaraOnline]

Well, I'm a mum, and I love being a mum, and I get annoyed by mums!
So don't worry about it.
Parenting is boring to watch, like cricket!

Listening to parents' every little experience with their little one is like hearing details of how they wash the house .... dull, unless you're looking for a specific tip.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/30/2008 7:30:58 PM
Author: MC
The picture thing drives me nuts, not because parents send me them but because I'm the ones with the kids and who is sending them out (ONLY once a year in holiday cards), yet I never know who to send pictures to and who not to. DH and I've been very good about sending out photos and this is the first Christmas we decided not to because I'm wondering now if anyone even cares or just sticks the photos in a drawer or the garbage! Maybe I'm annoying other people even with a picture of each of my sons?


All my friends have kids and I doubt I'd want to be friends with a person who didn't like kids. . . the friend wouldn't need to have kids, but would at least have a good attitude about them. Having or not having kids won't make or break a friendship as long as you have stuff in common and 'click.'

I don't think people mind them once a year, it's the parents that email pictures weekly that get annoying IMO.

My DH is solving the "who to send pics to and how often" thing by emailing everyone a link to our family website (was our wedding website, but it's just our names so it works for this now) and telling them that we'll add pictures there regularly. That way the grandparents and others who want pictures can get them and those who want an update once a year can visit the website once a year. We're going to email out the link when the boys are born so everyone has it.

 

[vespergirl]

Well, I definitely think that it swings both ways. I am a SAHM, and I had a child 2 years before any of my other friends. I have always been very aware of keeping up with my friends careers and interests, and they always made a point to ask about my son, but we try not to let either dominate the conversation. Now, in my close group, one just had a baby, another is due next month, and the third is sure that she does not want kids. The ones who have babies now, or about to have them, have really rekindled their relationships with me, even though they definitely called a lot less and didn''t make as much of an effort to get together when I was the only one with kids. The last, who doesn''t want kids, works in the same career that I used to, and we have other things in common, so I always make sure that the conversation focuses on the other things that we want to talk about when we get together, not just my son.

I did seek out a new group of friends, other SAHMs in my area, when my son was born. My best friend was definitely a little jealous, and we still talked almost every day, but I craved having someone to talk about parenting with as well. Her and I still went shopping and out to lunch (sans baby) on the weekends, but since I was the only SAHM in my group, I needed to meet other SAHMs to hang out with during the week. I''m really excited, though, now that 3 or the 4 of us will be mommies by January! It''s nice to have my long-time friends share the mothering experience, so that we can connect on that level as well.

I know that in your post you mentioned that you find a some of your parent friends annoying, but there are times that one of my non-parent friends would want to spend endless time on the phone, at inconvenient hours, discussing the latest daily argument with her fiance, and I would have to be like, "sorry, can''t talk, crying baby here," but that''s because taking care of my child is my full-time job, so that''s my priority - same as if I called her at work and she couldn''t talk because her boss was in the office, ya know?

 

[Haven]

Great response, Indy.

I don''t really find it annoying when people talk about their children endlessly, I just tend to tune them out and focus on something that is on my mind at the moment. It''s the same as people who talk at length about ANYTHING I''m not really interested in. Hubby has two good friends who are now married to women who used to discuss lip gloss and other makeup at length whenever we all got together. Now, I love makeup as much as the next girl, but I''m rarely interested in discussing the merits of one hue versus another at the dinner table.

Besides, I''d much rather hear that people are involved in their children''s lives than not. There are too many absent parents these days, it''s always encouraging to hear that someone actually cares about their kids.

 

[CJ2008]

Vesper, fair point/question. I'm not a "phone" person too much...so it's rare I ever want to be on the phone for that long...and I have this agreement with friends that if either one of us is ever busy and can't/don't want to talk we can say so and there will be no hurt feelings. But yes, I understand what that if I'm calling and the baby is hungry/crying whatever that comes first. I think my point was more that just because I don't have a crying baby my reasons for being busy are just as valid to me, even if the reasons are more "selfish" than a crying baby.

ETA: Indy, yes, your post was right on.

ETA2: Lara, I cracked up over the cricket comparison - I'll have to use that

ETA3: Neatfreak - I'm definitely using that strategy if I ever have kids (although I do think that sending out pictures once a year for the holidays is completely understandable! I realize parents are in love with their kids, and I think it's nice especially if it's a good friend. It's when it's a lot of pictures or way too often that I'm talking about).

 

[IloveAsschers13]

I''m pretty young, but I am around kids all the time because I work at a daycare and babysit ALL the time. So, I don''t mind when I get pictures of the kids that I am really close with. A lot of the parents only send them out every holiday (Halloween, Christmas, etc. special occassions). I personally wouldn''t mind getting pictures of cute babies, and I think babies look cute even when they are covered in food. I have numerous pictures of my next door neighbors (Who I have known since they were born) covered in food, and I think they are cuties. But i know I am not like every person my age, and I love kids a lot more than a lot of people.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Oh My Gosh everyone, this thread just makes me want to share this picture of my little snookums... isn''t he cute?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/30/2008 7:33:52 PM
Author: LaraOnline
Well, I''m a mum, and I love being a mum, and I get annoyed by mums!
So don''t worry about it.
Parenting is boring to watch, like cricket!

Listening to parents'' every little experience with their little one is like hearing details of how they wash the house .... dull, unless you''re looking for a specific tip.

I agree! And like pandora, I rarely pick up other people''s kids...

I think many people assume that you are a "kid person" if you have kids, and thus like to talk about them endlessly. I was at work and we were all talking about kids being annoying, and I was like, "Oh yeah, they can drive you nuts!" and my friend, with no kids, looked at me like I was mental and said, "But you are pregnant?" Yeaaahhh

... I''m sure my kid will be brilliant and endlessly entertaining, but that doesn''t mean I love all kids!

My best friend who has a two-year old had a similar experience at our work, where everyone is very young and has no kids yet... We do a secret santa at our work, and for the final reveal we make a contribution to a charity in the name of the person who is our secret gift-receiver. Well, many people tried to find out things that others are interested in and then made a suitable donation. My friend''s secret santa says, "I made a donation for you to the children''s hospital, because you love kids!" hahah... afterwards, my friend was like, "I love my kid, but when did I ever say I love kids in general?" She is sooo not a kid person and anyone who knows her knows that.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/30/2008 11:45:59 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Oh My Gosh everyone, this thread just makes me want to share this picture of my little snookums... isn''t he cute?

cute kid but...... that pic is gross!!

LOL

 

[TravelingGal]

A few things....

First and most importantly - Pricescope Mommy thread. Go here to talk ceaselessly about your kid so you don't have to do it in real life and annoy those around you. It's been great for me, as I really do STILL hate endless baby conversations in real life. In fact, I just start talking to my kid when people start these conversations. Pretty sad when I'd rather talk to someone who gives me no feedback than participate in *that* conversation.

Secondly, if you are self absorbed pre-kid (which means you're probably too self absorbed to realize it, oh well) you will be post child as well and talk about it all the time. If you're not and are somewhat aware enough to talk about others, don't worry, you won't talk about your kid all the time.

Thirdly, for those of you who don't have kids yet (and that includes preggos), you won't know how you feel until you have them and then some. I used to think all those crazy people who kept telling me kids were the best thing ever were psychos trying to ensnare me into their pit of despair. Misery loves company, right? Well as my anti-kid turned mom at 40 coworker told me when I was expecting: "I used to say misery loves company. Now I say pure joy, love and happiness love company." Count me in with the psychos. I would never say it in real life to someone who didn't want kids, but now I honestly feel like people who don't have children miss one of the greatest joys in life. However, you don't know what you're missing and life goes on, happily, without children.

Fourthly (are these even real words at this point?), yes, sending pics all the time is boring, but often times not as boring as you think as long as you think. People/friends DO want to see photos, but not every week! And not 15 at a time! One or two precious snapshots once a month is more than reasonable IMHO. Especially in the early months when they actually look different photo to photo.

Finally, re: food photos. I will guarantee (or your money back) that the first time YOUR kid eats colored solids and has food smeared all over his/her face, you will laugh yourself sh*tless and at least be *tempted* to send this hilarious photo to everyone in your address book.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/30/2008 7:33:52 PM
Author: LaraOnline
Well, I''m a mum, and I love being a mum, and I get annoyed by mums!
So don''t worry about it.
Parenting is boring to watch, like cricket!

Listening to parents'' every little experience with their little one is like hearing details of how they wash the house .... dull, unless you''re looking for a specific tip.

Lots of wisdom in a post with few words!

And yeah, I agree...Cricket is boring...I can''t get into it. Now footy (men in short shorts and long socks!) I can do!

 

[trillionaire]

I''m kind of an oddball. I think kids are infinitely cute! I LOVE barrages of photos, and stories about them growing up. I love seeing parents interacting with their children, and I love playing with kids, and talking to them, and picking them up and carrying them around. I think kids are wonderful and amazing.

And I don''t want any.

I love that my life is about SO and I, and I look forward to a lifetime of ''us'' centered living. I am quite content with my dog, which I talk about non-stop. Maybe I will talk about my neices and nephews non-stop, who knows. I think I agree with the other posters, you have to be less self absorbed and know your audience. No one cares about your personal fixations... which I am working on, because I am a little obessessed with NOT having kids and I tend to talk about it a lot...

 

[AdiS]

Well, what do you know... This is just the topic of the day for me. I''ve been married for more than two years now and people keep asking when am I finally going to get pregnant, why all the waiting and so on. I''m kinda forced to listen to this kid stuff pretty much 24/7 - everyone thinks if he twaddles endlessly about his own children he''ll convince me to go ahead and experience the joys of motherhood. They just wouldn''t believe it''s possible for a woman not to be craving this more that anything else in life. What is worse, one of my friends somehow managed to get my email address which I only use for work and now it''s always full of... ahem... adorable baby-with-food-on-the face pics. At my obvious displeasure with the subject, they all go "You can''t seriously say you do not like children! Just take a look at this pic I have of Tess, isn''t she gorgeous?!"

Sorry, but no maternal instincts so far, ergo-I don''t think all those babies and children are gorgeous, I don''t want to listen for their poo (right strm?

) and I absolutely don''t want to have pics of Tess among my documents. There, I said it.

Please people, we understand you love your children, you''re very excited that they''re the best/most beautiful/clever kids in the world, but give us (us meaning people who just don''t think kids have place in our lives right now-or ever, for that matter) a break. We really do try to be polite and listen, but, c''mon, sometimes enough is enough.

 

[purrfectpear]

Blabbermoms were annoying before I had a child. They were still over the top after I had a child.

Face it, there is more to life than procreation.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/1/2008 11:41:40 AM
Author: purrfectpear
Blabbermoms were annoying before I had a child. They were still over the top after I had a child.


Face it, there is more to life than procreation.

Blabbermoms LOL perfect term! LOL

As far as pics go a few every once in a while is kewl.
A dozen once a week is tooooooo much!

 

[fieryred33143]

I don't have children yet but do have one on the way. On my dad's side of the family there are 21 cousins, 20 children of cousins (I guess that's second cousins

) and 3 babies on the way. On my mom's side I have no clue except there are about double since her family is bigger. Needless to say, there are lots of talks about children and we get photos in the mail (including email) all the time. I have never been annoyed by it except when I was getting my MBA and had one woman in my group who felt the need to remind me she had a child and couldn't do certain things for our project.

I will say though that now that I'm preggo I *hate* when that's all people want to talk about. In the afternoons we get together for coffee in a small area in my Department. First thing is "how are you feeling?" followed by "what are your symptoms?" And being that there aren't many children in my department it makes me uncomfortable to talk about it so I move on from the convo quickly.

 

[iheartscience]

Good topic! I don''t have many friends with kids but I do have a lot of nieces and nephews! I don''t mind tons of pictures of them, but I am related to them, so that''s probably why. Nonstop conversation about how often they poop, on the other hand, is not something I''m interested in!

I think the blabbermoms (great term, purrfect) were probably pretty self-centered before they popped one out, so now their self-centeredness revolves around their kid as well as them. And I do hate it when people put their kids before everyone, including other adults. I''m just like, if your kid doesn''t like to eat X or watch Y on TV, get them out of here, because the adults do!

 

[luckystar112]

If you love the look of your baby with food all over its face, please show these ladies and leave me out of it.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 12/1/2008 1:47:30 AM
Author: TravelingGal
A few things....


First and most importantly - Pricescope Mommy thread. Go here to talk ceaselessly about your kid so you don''t have to do it in real life and annoy those around you. It''s been great for me, as I really do STILL hate endless baby conversations in real life. In fact, I just start talking to my kid when people start these conversations. Pretty sad when I''d rather talk to someone who gives me no feedback than participate in *that* conversation.


Secondly, if you are self absorbed pre-kid (which means you''re probably too self absorbed to realize it, oh well) you will be post child as well and talk about it all the time. If you''re not and are somewhat aware enough to talk about others, don''t worry, you won''t talk about your kid all the time.


Thirdly, for those of you who don''t have kids yet (and that includes preggos), you won''t know how you feel until you have them and then some. I used to think all those crazy people who kept telling me kids were the best thing ever were psychos trying to ensnare me into their pit of despair. Misery loves company, right? Well as my anti-kid turned mom at 40 coworker told me when I was expecting: ''I used to say misery loves company. Now I say pure joy, love and happiness love company.'' Count me in with the psychos. I would never say it in real life to someone who didn''t want kids, but now I honestly feel like people who don''t have children miss one of the greatest joys in life. However, you don''t know what you''re missing and life goes on, happily, without children.


Fourthly (are these even real words at this point?), yes, sending pics all the time is boring, but often times not as boring as you think as long as you think. People/friends DO want to see photos, but not every week! And not 15 at a time! One or two precious snapshots once a month is more than reasonable IMHO. Especially in the early months when they actually look different photo to photo.


Finally, re: food photos. I will guarantee (or your money back) that the first time YOUR kid eats colored solids and has food smeared all over his/her face, you will laugh yourself sh*tless and at least be *tempted* to send this hilarious photo to everyone in your address book.

T-Gal, Oh how I agree with you about the food photos

. I remember my two grandboys, with the food on the face, and hair. It was hysterical and we did laugh our fannies off. Not to mention when they learn how to do the raspberry with food in their mouths. HA!!!!!