paraiba tourmaline

[Raymond Polichano]

Dear colleages maybe one of you can steer me in the right direction I am searching for a vendor that has the real paraiba tourmaline not the wannabees from nigeria or mozambiqe I am aware of the high prices I feel if Iam going to collect one why not have the real macoy.

 

[rinni]

u might wanna look at this
http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=8611

or this
http://www.precisiongem.com/html/html/ParaibaTourmaline.html

 

[missydebby]

Well, he is not a vendor per se, but I happen to know that Leon Mege is going to be sourcing some real Paraibas soon. You may want to give him a call. http://www.artofplatinum.com/

 

[john gem]

I hope you have a good $50,000-$100,000+ to spend? Unless you want some brazilian junk wanna-be paraibas then you can find some much cheaper. If you want the real deal paraiba then you have to have some cash.
http://media.nextopia.net/88af37665e74d00b3a5ef0fd7bf000ff/816ceeeb22d4375e040cd3650e6afe91??

 

[T L]

www.paraibainternational.com,, and Adam (the owner) is a very honest vendor from what I've heard. They specialize in Brazilian paraibas

 

[Treenbean]

Africa gems has pariaba
pariaba international has pariaba

Swala gem traders have cuprian....

John gem: Some of those "fake wannabe" are quite beautiful. And your pricing is off.

 

[m76steve]

in john gems defense-the ? was where to get the real brazillian paraiba! john gem quotes on prices is pretty close to todays info-look at paraiba international & eat crow-wanabe pretty not the same at all-still lookin-u no who...

 

[john gem]

I am sorry Treenbean i beg to differ.
The OP says "real paraiba tourmaline not the wannabees from nigeria or mozambiqe "
So that rules out swala as you have stated. That also rules out cheap mozambique and nigerian cuprian prices. In 1990 brazilian paraibas from the orginal mine were $3000 a ct.[gemselect]

Adjusting for inflation that would mean $3000 in 1990 would be $4,900[per carat] in 2010 but we all know paraibas jumped up almost 8-10 fold in price since then. The OP states he doesn't want a waana-be from mozambique or Nigeria which means he wants a good quality glow/neon paraiba from Brazil. You will be looking at prices from $10,000-$60,000 a carat for a good brazilian paraiba 1ct+. Sure you can find a toned down one or one that is not that good but then why not spend the money that would have bought a crappy brazilian and get a top african paraiba or one from Afghanistan that will look just as good if not better for half the price than the cheap brazilian? I am sure the OP can find one for less than a 1/2ct for a decent price from brazil. 99% of the rough found in Brazil is under 1carat.

 

[Treenbean]

Steve: I stated two vendors that sell Pariaba from Brazil. The other vendor, Swala, sells the "wannabe" Pariaba, offered as a chance for the op to see how beautiful it can be.

As for pricing of the Pariaba's offered on PI's site only one is over 50,000 and it's origin...... Mozambique. And it isn't windex blue either.

According to Gemsociety.org most Paraiba costs between $2,500-$10,000 per carat with a premium over 2 carats and a top price of $16,000.

 

[m76steve]

treenbean-come to the real world-prices are up on brazillian paraiba-the real-how bout another helping of crow-the wanabe stuff is nice but theirs no place like home!-BRAZIL...

 

[T L]

With paraiba, the saturation of color, and the glow is everything. There are many cuprians (copper bearng tourmalines with blue or green blue color), but they lack the glow. They can still be very pretty stones, but the most expensive ones look like neon kryptonite. I suggest before you go hunting for a stone, to go look at some top quality ones in person (a gem show is a good place) so that you can understand why they charge so much money for these stones. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous sellers charge a lot for ones that look like aquamarine, or any other pretty, but pale blue gem. I would recommend you understand and educate yourself on what makes a fine paraiba. Also try to avoid stones that are irradiated or filled. An AGL lab report should accompany any paraiba of high value.

 

[john gem]

Treenbean, I guess your idea of what a paraiba is and mine are way off. Have you ever even seen a real Brazilian paraiba in person? It will blow your socks off. Sure go buy a $2,000 or $4,000 brazilian "paraiba". I will go spend $750 on an afghan one that will blow it's socks off. Spend $9,000 on a "brazilian paraiba" and I will spend $2,000 on a Mozambique one that will completely encompass and downplay the extra $7,000 you spent on a "brazilian" one. I am sure the OP doesn't spend his money frivolously and would hate to waste many thousands of dollars on a less than ideal stone just because it comes from a certain location

 

[Treenbean]

Steve: I love your antiquated terminology, so adorable. My helping of crow will be as good as your helping of humble pie (how's that colbalt spinel doing?).

I understand the difference between Pariaba, Brazil tourmaline and cuprian tourmaline from elsewhere. I also understand about the glow I had Leon Mege's Pariaba tourmaline ring on my finger ( showed it to me when I picked up my e-ring). However, it is my understanding that the Nigerian cuprian and the Brazilian tourmaline is very similar in chemical composition and there was a lot of cross over mixing of material.

Is Pariaba material the only one you want or would material from Rio Grand do Norte, Brazil be acceptable?

 

[T L]

Brazilian paraibas also cost a premium, so if one does obtain it, an origin report from the AGL is a must.

 

[Harriet]

Raymond,

Do give ParaibaI a call. They have more in stock than what's on their website.

 

[Art Nouveau]

Two years ago, I was offered two 3+ carats top quality windex neon blue Brazilian paraibas by 2 different dealers. Both of them were ~$30,000 per carat. So the prices quoted by John Gem are more accurate than Treebean's. There may be cheaper ones around, but they are not top quality. I have seen the one posted by John Gems in person. It is very nice and it is over $100,000. I have enquired about the Swala one. Eric told me it is not as neon as the top Brazilian stones. That is why the price is cheaper.

AN

 

[m76steve]

treenbean-antiquated is also established-the cobalt blue is not cobalt colored-just a good blue-no godamn humble from this dude-get ur facts together....

 

[john gem]

I think the OP needs to provide further information for anything else of value to be added to this thread. If the OP wants a top quality Brazilian paraiba and has the money to spend I would recommend flying to Brazil then tripping to the town of Batalha and buying directly from a garimpeiro who has some old mine material or one of the few pieces that come out a year. It will be much cheaper than buying it retail. It's what the Japanese do and they buy the most Brazilian Paraiba

 

[Harriet]

John, with respect to the Batalha material, what was the average yield for a facetted stone?

 

[john gem]

Today or in 1990?

 

[Harriet]

Back then.

I'm looking for one myself, but I'd rather not try to wrestle a Paraiba from one of the garimpeiros. The only Portuguese sentence I know is "I'm scared." That would not be helpful.

 

[john gem]

LOL That made me crack up Harriet. "I'm scared" LOL Oh boy
Nobody knows what the average size was. The only person that may know is Heitor Dimas Barbosa and he doesn't know since he sold and gave away bunches of them before he even knew what they later turned out to be. Like I stated above 99% of all the rough from all 3 mines in brazil is 1ct or less and if you factor in a 25% return rate on a 1ct piece of rough then the average stone size today is 1/4ct. I do know the 2 largest are like 180+cts and 51cts I think. Both are estimated at value from 25 million to 125 million which is more or close to the estimated prices of the most famous diamonds in the world(orloff, regent, centenary, etc.)

 

[Harriet]

Obrigada, John. It's nice to have you onboard!

 

[LD]

Raymond - first of all you need to be aware that the amount of Paraiba Tourmaline on the market (be it from Brazil or elsewhere - call it what you like) is limited. Good quality pieces now are exceptionally difficult to find. The ones on the websites provided already are ok but if you were to compare to what was on the market 10 years ago, you'd see the difference. 5 years ago, prices plummeted because of the amount of Mozambique material available. So, using inflation is not quite accurate. However, in recent years, because of the lack of good quality material the price has been driven up. Prices vary considerably and unfortunately do not always accurately reflect quality.

Most definitely if you're interested you must see as many as you can. Photographs and videos cannot capture the true beauty of a gorgeous Paraiba Tourmaline. These stones have a glow like no other. In very dim lighting conditions it's almost like somebody has turned a little torch on in the inside of the gem. Lots of Paraiba Tourmaline (both from Brazil and the wannabe PTs from elsewhere) are sold as Paraiba Tourmaline because of their chemical make-up but in truth they do not have the glow.

The one thing you need to be aware of is that some of the wannabe PTs can be quite breathtakingly beautiful. They have the same chemical composition which is why they were allowed to use the name of Paraiba. Whilst you may disagree and believe that Paraiba should denote locality, not chemical composition, I would urge you to cast your net wide and then make a decision on what's available, in your price range and what's the best quality. What you may find interesting is that a high quality/neon/glowing PT from Mozambique will outstrip a mediocre PT from Brazil that is the same size but doesn't have the glow or neonicity in terms of $!

I can't tell you how many pieces I've been shown where somebody say "look at the glow" or "wow this is neon" and in truth it's nowhere near what you would expect. Think neon and false looking and that's what a good PT is! A bit weird I know but true.

So, look at as many as you can in person before pulling the trigger and hunker down for a long search. It may take time but something will come along!

 

[Harriet]

Isn't comparing a "mediocre" Brazilian Paraiba tourmaline to a "top quality" Mozambique/Nigerian Paraiba Tourmaline akin to comparing apples to oranges? LD, many people with 'the eye' have told me that a top Paraiba outstrips a top Paraiba Africana (I'm abbreviating here). I've been lucky and have seen a few gorgeous Paraibas. They do indeed outdo the "top quality" African material, of which I have seen a decent number.

 

[LD]

Isn't comparing a "mediocre" Brazilian Paraiba tourmaline to a "top quality" Mozambique/Nigerian Paraiba Tourmaline akin to comparing apples to oranges? LD, many people with 'the eye' have told me that a top Paraiba outstrips a top Paraiba Africana (I'm abbreviating here). I've been lucky and have seen a few gorgeous Paraibas. They do indeed outdo the "top quality" African material, of which I have seen a decent number.

It depends who you talk you. No, it's not comparing apples and oranges. Are you honestly telling me that all Brazilian material is (a) good and (b) will outstrip, in price, a better quality Mozambique/Nigerian stone? If so, then I'm sorry but that's incorrect. The top quality Brazilian material is of course, the best. However, since the production of the high quality stones from Brazil was mined out very quickly and only resulted in a very small quanity of stones, you're telling somebody to compare to something that's almost unattainable. I'm trying to be realistic and giving the OP all options. I'm not touting one location or the other but trying to add in a bit of common sense. I'm speaking as an owner of a fair number of these gemstones from all of the localities in question.

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh Harriet, you do make me laugh! There has got to be a good story behind the only portuguese expression you know.

I would add only that I have three cuprians - two windex blue, and one windex blue green Obviously, the windex blues are much more valuable and right now are in the safe deposit box with all their expensive cousins. However, I have this greenish blue one that, because it was not nearly as expensive, I wear. While it does not have the classic, full-on neon, it does glow and people comment on it frequently. Its probably 3+ carats (can't remember) and my favorite thing is at night when I'm in low light and I look down at my hand and its almost like its lit from within. No other stones I have do that (except for the cuprians in the bank). My point is its pretty and glowey, even if its not top quality due to its color, so you should look around to make sure that the top of the line is really necessary for you.

 

[Harriet]

LD,
Please re-read my carefully worded post above.
"Top quality" Paraibas are scarce, but extant.

 

[LD]

LD,
Please re-read my carefully worded post above.
"Top quality" Paraibas are scarce, but extant.

Harriet - I'm sorry but it's late in the UK and I do not intend to read every carefully worded sentence, interpret nuances and then wonder what on earth you're saying. I think we have a difference of opinion and that's fine - we normally do. I have simply given my own opinion bearing in mind what's available on the market at the moment and my own hands on experience as somebody who has spent the last 10-15 or so years buying and owning it. You can agree with it or not. I'm really not bothered. The point is that the OP can make his mind up after reading this thread and will have different points of views to choose from.

 

[m76steve]

as long as this is about BP the real stuff-here is mine-iv been offered double my cost so far & the original seller would buy it back no problem-me...