Oval v. Emerald

[shminbabe]

So my independent jeweler called to ask if I''d decided between round and oval. That was where we''d left off 10 days ago. Since then, I''ve been devouring information here, seen a loverly emerald shape and am now vascillating between the two. I told her that; pretty sure I threw her for a loop. Said also that I''m more knowledgeable now and will want to see the grading certificates, that I am paying more attention to cut for maximum briiliance, etc. I was trying to let her politely know that now that I''m better educated, my ideas are more discrimiating and my judgments will be more exact.

She seems to get a lot of EGL-certified stones. Although she admits GIA grading is harder and is in fact a graduate of the GIA residency program (not sure if that really means anything), the stones from EGL will be a better "deal" as in fact they will be less expenise. I tried to say I wanted to see all stats, and then look at GIA stones. Our converstation is briefic and chaotic b/b of thd kids in the house. she talks really fast so sometimes i really have to pay attention to what she''s saying.

Long story short: where do you think she gets these diamons from and why only EGL stones?? should I simply reject a EGL-rated stone as inherently not worthy of my consideration??

The last time she showed me what appeared to be a lovely oval stone, about 2.21 ct, SI 1, G color. EGL certified. When placed next to the others on a white paper, this was obviously white. No othe stats available. The stone was eye clean. The inclusion, via the loupe, appeared to look like crushed ice. It was a pretty stone to my then, untrained eye. I loved the stone (but wanted bigger

. To me it was lovely. What it really is sis....I dont relly know.

Oaky enough. What do you make of this??

jeannie

 

[surfgirl]

I would tell her you ONLY want to look at GIA or AGS cert'd stones. If she cannot oblige you, go elsewhere. She knows you're in the market for a diamond. She should be bringing in whatever you ask for so she can make a sale. If she cannot or will not bring in GIA/AGS stones, move on...There are plenty of vendors who would love to sell you a high quality stone.

 

[diagem]

I would not aim to ONLY GIA or AGS..., (unless you have decided you dont want the more economical options.)
Especialy when it comes to fancy shaped Diamonds..., keep your options (and your eyes) open...

Compare, compare, compare...., that is the name of the game to finding the right "fancy shaped Diamond" for you!

My experience with EGL''s: (the whiter the Diamond... the more accurate their grades!)

You can allways post some images and specs..., we will be happy to assist.

 

[chrono]

I would not limit myself to AGS and GIA certs. EGL USA is fine. Do not accept EGL Europe or EGL Israel. Yes, EGL is cheaper because SOMETIMES, their grading is too soft. This is where an independant appraiser can match the cert to the stone to make sure that you are getting what is stated on the cert.

Any diamond placed upsidedown on a white paper will look white. If placed next to a whiter diamond, then you will be able to see the difference. Hence, again, the recommendation for the services of an independant appraiser.

 

[vespergirl]

I just traded up from a GIA certed stone to an EGL certed stone, that clearly has a superior color and cut. I wouldn''t just automatically discount an EGL stone, especially for a fancy cut. You need to compare them by eye, and then pick the one that you like best - you may be surprised to find that you really like an EGL stone.

 

[diagem]

Date: 6/26/2007 10:16:58 AM
Author: vespergirl
I just traded up from a GIA certed stone to an EGL certed stone, that clearly has a superior color and cut. I wouldn''t just automatically discount an EGL stone, especially for a fancy cut. You need to compare them by eye, and then pick the one that you like best - you may be surprised to find that you really like an EGL stone.

I agree 100%.

Sometimes EGL reports are softer vs. GIA reports are overly-strict!!!

 

[Iceman]

My 2 cents,

GIA over grades from all the diamonds I have looked at. Some people call this being strict.

So really you get what you paid for.

If GIA gives a diamond an SI2 Grade and you look at the diamond and it should grade out to an SI1
Why would you think a diamond that is graded on the nose from anther lab as SI2 at a lesser price seem cheaper?

Israel EGL is most of the time lower on their colors and SI2 grades. If you know all of the labs styles in grading you can find the deals.

If I want a ~SI1 H diamond~
If I would choose a GIA SI2 I
If I chose a EGL USA, or PGA it would be SI1 H diamond
If I chose a EGL Israel or Antwerp it would be VS2 G or F
HRD I have not seen enough to make a statement.
They should all come out to the same money, maybe preimums added on for different labs?

These are guidelines because even the best of the best make mistakes

Read the qualifications to be employed grading diamonds at GIA. It makes sense to error to the side nobody will have a problem with.
This is just my opinion from what I have learned in 25 years.

 

[Gypsy]

If you want bigger go for the oval. Here's why. A well cut oval is much less deep than a well cut emerald. Most emeralds most people seem to be finding about above 64 these days. With an oval you get less than that in depth... and more spread.

Both are a pain to shop for in terms of having to see them and getting ideal scopes and so forth. Emerald's steps need to be JUST SO, and you can't tell from the numbers if they are indeed that way.

Ovals you need to watch for bow ties... and many of them have it.

I know you want to work with a local jewler but please consider either GOG, James Allen, or ERD as vendors for these shapes. We'll be able to help you better with vendors that have the right tools to dicern a good fancy from a bad one.

 

[jstarfireb]

The problem with looking at the diamonds with your own eye is that not everyone''s eyes are trained enough to know what you''re looking for. I''d take a look at her EGL diamonds, pick one you like, and have her informally grade it given her GIA training. The problem with this is that she may not be honest just to make the sale, but it''s a quick way to figure out if the EGL report is accurate. Also, make sure you look at EGL USA diamonds, since EGL Israel is even less reliable, as Iceman alluded to.

Given that your post it titled "oval v. emerald," I''d also like to give you my unsolicited 2 cents worth on these 2 cuts. They''re both pretty, but oval will look larger (which seems to be pretty important to you) and have more sparkle. Emerald also requires a higher clarity and color than brilliant-cut diamonds because the cut doesn''t hid flaws as well, so it will probably be more expensive. It''s hard to judge either cut by the numbers, because even a "well-cut" oval can have an ugly bowtie, and emeralds that look good by numbers can have asymmetric steps. Seeing the diamonds in person or pictures is important, and that''s exactly what you''re doing.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 6/26/2007 11:48:25 AM
Author: jstarfireb
The problem with looking at the diamonds with your own eye is that not everyone''s eyes are trained enough to know what you''re looking for. I''d take a look at her EGL diamonds, pick one you like, and have her informally grade it given her GIA training. The problem with this is that she may not be honest just to make the sale, but it''s a quick way to figure out if the EGL report is accurate. Also, make sure you look at EGL USA diamonds, since EGL Israel is even less reliable, as Iceman alluded to.

Given that your post it titled ''oval v. emerald,'' I''d also like to give you my unsolicited 2 cents worth on these 2 cuts. They''re both pretty, but oval will look larger (which seems to be pretty important to you) and have more sparkle. Emerald also requires a higher clarity and color than brilliant-cut diamonds because the cut doesn''t hid flaws as well, so it will probably be more expensive. It''s hard to judge either cut by the numbers, because even a ''well-cut'' oval can have an ugly bowtie, and emeralds that look good by numbers can have asymmetric steps. Seeing the diamonds in person or pictures is important, and that''s exactly what you''re doing.

You said this much better than I did.

Plus the depth of Ovals on the market versus emeralds on the market seems to favor much spreadier (larger in mm size) ovals.

 

[shminbabe]

You guys have been really helpful; I appreciate all your responses on the emerald v. oval question, what to look for, the GIA v. EGL grading, etc.

I feel greatly reassured about purchasing an EGL-rated stone. The jeweler herself told me upfront they are a "softer" grading lab; I think she is trying to give me the most for the money, really. I e mailed with Tom (I think) at Good Old Gold and he pretty much corroborated what you all have said, i.e. don''t necessarily rule out EGL particularly for the fancy shaped stones. If I were to buy a stone from GOG, is that a reputable place? I hear so much about Whiteflash (is this a Whiteflash-sponsored forum?) here, a bit about James Allen and GOG, and not much about Blue Nile. Anyway, Tom said he would look for some stones and said with fancies, like you guys said, it''s really important to look with my own eyes more than just focus on the numbers.

I''m trying to get educated on the differences between the oval and emerald cuts, and what, exactly, to look for. I understand the basics, i.e. the cuts are different - emeralds have steps, facets and are very clear, therefore clarity is important. Ovals will sparkle more but not as much as a round. I had an oval before it was stolen; I just liked the elongated shape of it. I didn''t really know much about the oval as I bought it rather impulsively. This time, I want to be careful, and get exactly what I want. I love rounds but they just feel too ordinary to me. I like elongated shapes.

The independent jeweler did say emeralds would cost more.

So tell me: when I am actually looking at these stones, what should I be looking for? Oval: absense of bow tie. Emerald: symmetrical facets?? How can I tell if the cut is great?

Now the EGL (not sure if US, Europe or Israel, will ask) rated oval I saw, I liked. That one, of the other three she showed me that day, spoke to me. Compared to the others, it was definitely whiter. The SI 1 inclusions were not visible to my eye. What it did look like under the loupe magnification was the appearance of crushed ice. Is this bad? There was a spot of that, I think, pretty much near the center. That will affect the diamond''s brilliance?

As much as I read, I still feel confused about what to look for in an emerald or oval stone, if, given that they are fancy cuts, I cannot so much rely on the numbers.

Thank you all, you have been very helpful so far, believe me.

Jeannie

 

[Kaleigh]

I got an oval from GOG, there is a video of the ovals I got to choose from. Take a look, it may be helpful to you. HTH and good luck.

 

[shminbabe]

Kaleigh!

I would love to see the video you mentioned. I assume you are pleased with GOG. If that''s a picture of your ring with your post, it''s lovely. Will you tell me more about your buying experience? How can I see the video? Willl you tell me about your oval? If you don''t mind sharing stats, etc., and tell me what led you to chose an oval?

Thanks!!

Jeannie

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/26/2007 9:44:00 PM
Author: shminbabe
Kaleigh!

I would love to see the video you mentioned. I assume you are pleased with GOG. If that''s a picture of your ring with your post, it''s lovely. Will you tell me more about your buying experience? How can I see the video? Willl you tell me about your oval? If you don''t mind sharing stats, etc., and tell me what led you to chose an oval?

Thanks!!

Jeannie

No the ring in my avatar isn''t an oval. The oval was my 20th anniversary gift from hubby. I have always loved ovals. Picking them is hard. Jonathon offered to do a video for me since I couldn''t make it to Long Island. If you go to www.goodoldgold.com There is a section where you can see video''s. I think it says 4 ovals and two beauts... Haven''t seen it in a while. When you click on it, it says ovals for Kaleigh. I had a great buying experience with them. I had it set by leon Mege with half moon sides, it''s a RHR.

 

[Gypsy]

This site is independant, we don''t sponsor any one. Believe me when ANY vendor messes up they get slammed on here. Free for all. But we recommend those that when they, rarely, mess up have the customer service to make things right for their customers as quickly and as stress free as possible.

We don''t usually recommend WF for fancies usually, honestly. They of course have lovely diamonds and service.

But ERD and GOG and James Allen are more referred for fancies.

 

[shminbabe]

kaleigh!

i saw the ovals video - how awesome. it was a great video for me to see; all of them were. thanks so much for pointing me in that direction. so, which oval did you choose? is it tacky to ask how much it cost? i''m just so new to this and am trying to figure it all out. this ring will be my upgrade ring, although my original ring was stolen. it was a 1 ct oval. i def. want at least a 2 ct stone but it has to be a good one and they are soooooo costly now. i loved the video where he showed the asscher cut too. i am thinking emerald cut but when i also saw the asscher...wow. i want something that''s different, and i''ve loved ovals too and when the jeweler brought me some rounds and one oval, my heart sang for the oval. so i can tell you were pleased by your experience with good old gold. are their prices competitive?

jeannie

 

[sumbride]

I love my oval! It''s such a different cut than the emerald, so I''m surprised that you''re deciding between the two. That''s like trying to decide between cake and ice cream... both good, but extremely different.

Ovals are getting a bit more popular these days but will still be somewhat unusual because most people just go for rounds. I like a "fatter" oval better than a skinnier, more elongated oval. The proportions were a big part of my shopping because I just didn''t like a lot of the thinner ovals out there.

 

[surfgirl]

Just to clarify my earlier comment, the OP seemed to be wanting to really look at GIA cert'd stones, hence my comment. And I DO think it's weird if her store cannot bring in even one stone that is not an EGL-graded stone. To me, that would be weird. The shop should be able to bring in three stones graded from three different labs so the OP can compare the difference between a stone graded H/SI1 at EGL, GIA & AGS. Ice Man gives some good guidelines on what he'd get depending on the grading lab, but if it was me, I'd want to see three different lab cert'd stones all with the same grading, so I could see with my own eyes, what the differences are, then I'd go from there.

That was my only point but apparently it got lost...

 

[shminbabe]

hi,

surfgirl, thanks for your point. i''m working with an independent jeweler, i guess that is what i''ll call her. i''ve checked her out with others who''ve made some major purchases with her and people seem pleased, and their items appraise apprpriately. so it''s not really a shop. she brings them to my house. when i first spoke to her she told me EGL was a softer grading lab than GIA, etc. She''s a GIA grad. She''s come to the house twice with stones. there was only one i''d consider. she said they were all EGL graded but i didn''t ask "which lab". I didn''t know to ask that, then! now i do. so i spoke to her on monday and mentioned the EGL/GIA thing. she did say they would prob. cost more but the stones could be graded by GIA. so i think she''ll bring me some from GIA (I hope so. I want to see the difference myself, too).

It''s just a different feeling, having someone come into my house with stones instead of visiting a store. She has to get them from her sources, have them shipped in, then present them to me. when i asked this week for ovals and emerald cuts, i could tell she was puzzled, too, just like someone else who posted, wondering why in the world i''d be choosing between two such vastly different cuts?! well, i''m not sure. i have always liked ovals, my heart leapt when i saw the oval she''d shown me earlier (vs. the rounds she had) but then i happened to see an emerald cut in a store...i''m a geometric person, someone who appreciates symmetry and clean lines in my home design preferences, so this emerald cut was appealing. i thought i''d look at some, compare the two styles, see if i can afford a good emerald cut, then decide.

i remind myself of a friend who, years ago was deciding on her china pattern. her choices were something quite Asian in appearance v. something quite contemporary. i thought it was quite stupid to be actually narrowing it down to two quite different styles overall. yet here i am, older, wiser, and driving myself crazy over this!

jeannie