Our Moloch

[Arkteia]

Wanted to share; this is what the scientists recommend for the schools

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180307

 

[monarch64]

Wanted to share; this is what the scientists recommend for the schools

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180307

Sadly, a large part of our population will be against the scientifically-recommended approach. The same people who scornfully talk about “snowflakes” and “safe places.” The very people who probably needed safe places themselves as children and instead grew into hardened adults with hard yet fearful hearts and a kill or be killed mentality. What a viscous, awful cycle.

 

[Arkteia]

Sadly, a large part of our population will be against the scientifically-recommended approach. The same people who scornfully talk about “snowflakes” and “safe places.” The very people who probably needed safe places themselves as children and instead grew into hardened adults with hard yet fearful hearts and a kill or be killed mentality. What a viscous, awful cycle.

You know, I think the word "snowflake" will soon become extinct, because it can be so easily turned against the creators of it.

Here is an example.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ining-because-no-one-wants-to-date-them-vgtrn

So, conservatives in D.C. are complaining that their political views are scaring women away? What snowflakes!

Or, people are whining on social media that Drump did not live up to their expectations? - You voted for him, own up to it, snowflakes!

Now, I don't want to be cruel, and we should not tease people, but "snowflakes" is really going to become extinct pretty soon, if not already...

On the other side - we do have to look at what happens in our schools. The whole school system is organized in the wrong way, starting with these huge schools where people don't know one another. And bullying, and parental expectations... but this is a different issue. I think one should work with all arms of the equation. It doesn't take long to break a person, but the fact that kids are broken in schools is disgusting - and unnecessary.

 

[Calliecake]

Betsy DeVos made a trip to Parkland’s Stoneman Douglas high school today. One student tweeted that Betsy met with 3 students and petted a dog.

I can’t imagine why her visit didn’t sit well with the students. Where is the barf emoji?

 

[ksinger]

You know, I think the word "snowflake" will soon become extinct, because it can be so easily turned against the creators of it.

Here is an example.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ining-because-no-one-wants-to-date-them-vgtrn

So, conservatives in D.C. are complaining that their political views are scaring women away? What snowflakes!

Or, people are whining on social media that Drump did not live up to their expectations? - You voted for him, own up to it, snowflakes!

Now, I don't want to be cruel, and we should not tease people, but "snowflakes" is really going to become extinct pretty soon, if not already...

On the other side - we do have to look at what happens in our schools. The whole school system is organized in the wrong way, starting with these huge schools where people don't know one another. And bullying, and parental expectations... but this is a different issue. I think one should work with all arms of the equation. It doesn't take long to break a person, but the fact that kids are broken in schools is disgusting - and unnecessary.

Posts like this make me want to scream. Or weep.

In the interests of not doing either and harshing my mellow, I will point everyone to the cartoon I posted on page 4.

 

[Arkteia]

Posts like this make me want to scream. Or weep.

In the interests of not doing either and harshing my mellow, I will point everyone to the cartoon I posted on page 4.

Least of all I blame the teachers. If anything, if we trace all school shootings, teachers always performed the best, in terms of protection, evacuation or organization.

But in view of so many school shootings, I decided to look into the issue of "I hate school". I hear it all the time - and when I grew up, I did not hate it. It is probably the topic for another discussion - how the schools need to be changed. I am reading about school shootings, trying to understand...I went to a totally different school (smaller, and we started and finished as one class). US school system is very different. In general, I would welcome a discussion about different school systems, in different countries.

 

[ksinger]

I have typed 10s of thousands of keystrokes on schools, over the years in here. I don't have the juice I had back then.

I will say a few things though. You said schools that are too large - where kids don't know one another - are a problem. That they're organized ALL wrong. Well, since personal experience seems to trump data these days, I'll say I went to public schools that were at least as large as the ones that are in my state now, and yet were smaller (in class size - mine was over 600) than those 10 years before me (1000+ per graduating class).

Back when I was in school, Oklahoma was ranked in the bottom 1/5th of states in educational funding/outcomes/testing/teacher pay, the works. It is now even further down in that slice, alas. And yet, does anyone here wish to say that I come across as uneducated or lacking in discernment or reading comprehension? And I promise I've not shot a single person. So, since I am a product of a large public school, I'm thinking the "problem" isn't being caused by school size.

I would also say that before we can solve a problem, we'd best be able to define the problem, and have a pretty solid idea of what is causing it.

So, please, define the problem of which you speak. It it outcomes such as graduation rates? Is is percentage of college-bound? Is it school shootings? Is it bullying? General literacy? Discipline?

And if you would like to understand American schools better, I would strongly suggest this book, "The Death and Life of The Great American School System", by Diane Ravitch. You seem to think no one in the US "gets it", but there are plenty who do. Some, like Ravitch, have even changed their minds. (hey, it happens) But like all things, disagreement in world view, and on desired outcomes, means there is always a battle going on.

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Great-American-School-System/dp/0465025579

 

[Matata]

It tickles me infinite shades of pink when news media gift us with their intellectual insights and leave bare their tender throats.

 

[ksinger]

It tickles me infinite shades of pink when news media gift us with their intellectual insights and leave bare their tender throats.

Aside from the fact that he's ridiculously illogical in comparing transportation to weaponry (apples to oranges) there would be exactly the same discussion of "trucks" as there was after one was used to blow up 168 men, women, and children in 1995.

 

[Arkteia]

I have typed 10s of thousands of keystrokes on schools, over the years in here. I don't have the juice I had back then.

I will say a few things though. You said schools that are too large - where kids don't know one another - are a problem. That they're organized ALL wrong. Well, since personal experience seems to trump data these days, I'll say I went to public schools that were at least as large as the ones that are in my state now, and yet were smaller (in class size - mine was over 600) than those 10 years before me (1000+ per graduating class).

Back when I was in school, Oklahoma was ranked in the bottom 1/5th of states in educational funding/outcomes/testing/teacher pay, the works. It is now even further down in that slice, alas. And yet, does anyone here wish to say that I come across as uneducated or lacking in discernment or reading comprehension? And I promise I've not shot a single person. So, since I am a product of a large public school, I'm thinking the "problem" isn't being caused by school size.

I would also say that before we can solve a problem, we'd best be able to define the problem, and have a pretty solid idea of what is causing it.

So, please, define the problem of which you speak. It it outcomes such as graduation rates? Is is percentage of college-bound? Is it school shootings? Is it bullying? General literacy? Discipline?

And if you would like to understand American schools better, I would strongly suggest this book, "The Death and Life of The Great American School System", by Diane Ravitch. You seem to think no one in the US "gets it", but there are plenty who do. Some, like Ravitch, have even changed their minds. (hey, it happens) But like all things, disagreement in world view, and on desired outcomes, means there is always a battle going on.

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Great-American-School-System/dp/0465025579

For the recommendation of the book - thank you. As to what I think - you can only assume, right? I don’t think that no one gets it here. I don’t get it myself so I am trying to understand. I work with teenagers, I like them, and I am trying to understand why so many bright students say, “I hate school”. What is interesting is that many students who studied in Europe and then transferred to US school system criticise US school system from exactly the same standpoint. They compare the social climate with Indian caste system.

As to the definition of the problem. Too early. I want to understand the experience of the kids. I want to know how a school with good reputation can not help a kid with IQ of 135 get something better than a D in math. How come they constantly struggle with homework, or one year, the teacher is good, and a student has an A in history, and the next year the teacher changes, and there is an F. I want to know how my own kid, who graduated with SAT scores in top 2 percentiles, happened to never take chemistry in school. (Took very little as part of science). Why is there no core curriculum? And if there is, how come chemistry was not in it? It would really help me if I could understand what makes bright schoolkids opt for homeschooling. Must be social factors. What do they experience, day by day?

Also - why are they all pushed to take AP classes and why break the education into AP/not AP?Why can’t they all have the same curriculum/levels/classes?

 

[ksinger]

I am trying to understand why so many bright students say, “I hate school”.
Teens saying they hate school, is not exactly something new. Teens often say they hate a lot of things. Around here, liking school can get you ostracized. So it can be that the schools are awful, OR it could be that culturally, they are supposed to hate school.

"I want to know how a school with good reputation can not help a kid with IQ of 135 get something better than a D in math." High IQ doesn't mean a person is good at everything, nor is it indicative of work ethic or level of effort. And real life is not like on "A Prairie Home Companion", "Where all the men are good looking, all the women are strong, and all the children are above average." Sometimes a kid is going to make a D.

"I want to know how my own kid, who graduated with SAT scores in top 2 percentiles, happened to never take chemistry in school. (Took very little as part of science). Why is there no core curriculum? And if there is, how come chemistry was not in it?"
Did you ever ask her why she wasn't taking chemistry? Were you there when she was enrolling? Did you push her to take it if you thought it was important? Why is it the school's responsibility to read your mind regarding what your child shall learn? Why didn't you know what was offered there? Do you know for a fact that there is no "core curriculum"? Do you know who decrees what shall be taught in your state's schools? Going to your state's department of education website is often quite instructive. Do you understand the difference between standards and curriculum? And about those standards? Even Marzano (one of the current Gods of How Things Shall Be Done in Education) has pointed out that if states' standards were adhered to strictly, and the best research was applied about how long it takes the mythical "average student" to attain mastery of a concept, that kids would need to go from K to grade 23.

"How come they constantly struggle with homework, or one year, the teacher is good, and a student has an A in history, and the next year the teacher changes, and there is an F." Maybe they struggle with homework because the teacher this year actually gives it, whereas the teacher last year did not. And like many parents, you are focused on the grade and not whether the kid is actually learning anything. An A doesn't automatically mean that the teacher is good, maybe he's just easy in how he grades. And an F can just as easily indicate that the teacher giving it has genuine standards that the kid is unable or unwilling to meet.

"It would really help me if I could understand what makes bright schoolkids opt for homeschooling."
Parents? I don't know your child's schooling was chosen, but speaking for myself, where I went to school was not something I chose, it was chosen for me by my mother. And the overwhelming reason kids are homeschooled is for the purposes of religious indoctrination, pure and simple.

"Also - why are they all pushed to take AP classes and why break the education into AP/not AP?Why can’t they all have the same curriculum/levels/classes?"
You are only speaking for your own school. Many schools do not push "all" kids to take AP. And it seems pretty obvious to me, that kids come in different ability levels. Not acknowledging this is....really? How can you not? Putting a non-college-bound kid in a class in which he can't or won't do the work, is setting him up for unnecessary failure. And yes, my husband used to teach AP American History, just for the record.

Which makes me point out that there is no nationally dictated curricula or standards. this is what state control of education actually means - it means there will be variation, even down to the district level within your state. Welcome to a direct lesson in states' rights. It's why we have a huge gulf between educational quality in MA and OK. MA values education and it shows, just like my state does not, and it shows.

Public education in the US is industrial model education. You get the standard offering. If you don't like what you're getting, then get involved in changing those offerings (school board, legislatures), or you need to go somewhere where you will get what you want, or add enrichment on your own. What I hear most these days, is parents whining about how their kids are not getting what amounts to private tutoring. Usually by the same parents who complain about taxes to fund public schools. It's maddening.

The public schools have many problems, but those problems are coming from the culture in - in the form of mindset for one, guns for another - which is really a manifestation of mindset again, not so much the other way around. And that really IS a whole other thread.