Our experience with pre-purchase appraisal - Comments?

[maristidou]

We are in the process of buying a 1.38 CT Ideal cut F SI1 stone from niceice – very excited about that -I’ll post all the info when we get the stone in our hands. Robin and Todd at niceice were nice enough to send the stone that we were interested to an appraiser – in this case David Wolf – for us to look at before we purchased it. I choose David because his credentials seemed to be among the best in the area (NY/NJ) although I knew he was not cheap ($143 plus $75 for reappraisal after the stone is set) and I also knew that Robin and Todd worked with him before and would trust him with the stone for however many days it took for us to see it and make a decision.

The stone arrived at David Wolf’s NYC office Wednesday and we saw it Saturday in his Florham Park Office (he is not in NYC Friday-Saturday).

Please let me know if our experience was typical.
1. We went in after waiting for 40 minutes (some other customer before us came really late).
2. We were told that the appraisal was already done since he had the stone in his office Wed. I was surprised and disappointed because I wanted to see it done in front of us. His assistant said it would take 3+ hours for him to do it in front of us and all we missed is the recoding of the results. I asked if he could at least walk us through the process. He showed us a few things i.e how he determined the color of the stone, let us look at the inclusion through the loop and microscope. For $143 I expected a bit more.
2. It also turned out that he didn’t have the necessary equipment in the Florham Park office to do the appraisal there anyway. When I pointed out a discrepancy of 1% in the table between his appraisal and niceice’s analysis/GIA report he couldn’t repeat the test and his equipment kept coming up with the wrong diameter.
3. His appraisal value for the stone was $200 more than the regular niceice price and $500 more than the wire transfer price (his value includes tax, niceice’s price doesn’t). Since I researched diamonds a lot I knew how competitive niceice’s price was and asked how he comes up with that appraisal value. He said that if the stone is bought on the internet he gives an internet appraisal value and if it’s purchased in a high end mall he gives a retail appraisal value. Although I did not want an inflated appraisal value I was a bit confused by his approach because I thought that a stone should have one single value regardless of where you get it. (I thought he had to appraise the stone as if he didn''t know anything about it)

Reading through others experiences with appraisers such as Dave Atlas and Richard Sherwood I expected my experience to be a bit different. Perhaps my expectations were too high.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Melina

 

[Patty]

Melina, I'd be frustrated if I had to wait 40 mintues.

Our appraiser had written everything up for us ahead of time but she went through it all with us for about an hour. I think we paid about the same as you for our appraisal, maybe a little less ($125 plus $60 when set, I think).

As for values, there are various markets out there as I understand it. Our appraiser also gave an internet market value but she made a note that this ring would be more if purchased in a brick and mortar store. She used all the information that we supplied to her in determining the value as well as her own instruments and information. I think that most appraisals are done not blindly, but by using the information provided.

I think the job of the appraiser is to give a fair replacement value for you. Like you said, you do not want to over-insure it since that would be a waste of money. I think most people like to think that they got a great deal, so it's nice to see an appraisal that is twice what you paid. The reality, however, is that if you lost your ring today, you could replace it for just about what you paid.

 

[hoorray]

I've had several types of appraisals, and paid different prices for them. I think appraisers work differently -- there isn't necessarily a standard, and I've learned through experience what works for me and what doesn't.

For ex, I bought a very expensive stone and paid $90 for both the loose and set appraisal. He was a well respected appraiser, but really was verifying that the stone was what we thought it was and that it matched the cert. He did it with us there, and helped us view and get familiar with the uniqueness of the stone. He gave us a good but basic insurance doc, but really wasn't a cut specialist, so didn't add a lot to the decision making process on that front. I'm worried the final doc doesn't have enough detail for insurance since this was a super-ideal, H&A stone, but my guess is that if I call him, he will update it.

I had Rich Sherwood do one and got much more detail and help, but paid more. Rich gave us several appraised values -- retail, internet and I think one other. An appraised value is simply what you would/should pay for the stone, and these days there is a difference, depending on where you purchased it. Thus, your "internet value" appraisal. Insurance replacement purchase will pay less than you do, so it is more important to have good descriptive detail and a fair value than to have a high value. A higher value is just a feel good -- you'll pay higher premiums on it for the same stone if they have to replace it.

I think it boils down to what you were trying to get out of the appraisal. I would not have been happy with a pre-done appraisal. What I've learned out of my various experiences is to find out how and what will happen before you decide who to go with, as they vary widely.

What you do now, I think depends on where you are in the process. If you have purchased the stone and just need insurance, you have to decide if this is good enough for the insurance. If you are still in the purchase decision phase, you have to decide if you want to send it out again for help from someone else. I have decided that sending it locally so that I can see it too is just a "feel-good" for me, if I am only sending one stone. At this level of stone quality they are all going to look great without anything to compare it to. I have decided to let someone not local, but much more trained "be my eyes", and don't have to see it unless I am going to see several to compare. (This applies ot rounds -- not fancies.)

Net, net, it's not black and white. I hope you love your stone, and can get proper insurance for it. That is really what it is about........

 

[glitterata]

It sounds as if he did a thorough job appraising your diamond.

The 40 minute wait sounds very frustrating, and it sounds frustrating that you didn't get to watch him in action. But did you make it clear when you set up the appointment that that was what you expected? I imagine that people who want to watch for three hours are the exception, rather than the rule.

His method of arriving at a value sounds exactly right. The "real" value of your diamond is what someone (in this case, you) is willing to pay for it--which would be much more if you'd bought the same thing at an expensive store. Since you bought it online, why should you pay the higher insurance as if you'd bought it in a physical store? If you think the appraised value is too low for some reason--for example, if you intend to replace the diamond at a local store if anything happens to it--I'm sure you can tell him that and have him adjust the value.

About the difference in table measurements: You assume that his equipment was off, rather than niceice's. That's certainly possible. But slight discrepencies in measurements aren't that uncommon. Instruments vary slightly, and users vary slightly. I wouldn't assume that anything was wrong there.

I'm just an amateur. But my unprofessional opinion is that you got a good, professional appraisal.

 

[maristidou]

Thank you all. Your comments make me feel a bit better about our experience - especially the appraisal value. I wish I made it clear that we wanted the appraisal done in front of us - I guess I just assumed it would be. As far as the equipment, he admitted it himself that he didn't have them in the Florham Park Office and that his tool for measuring the diameter was off (compared to the same one in NYC). Obviously different tools handled by different people will produce slightly differnt results. However, had I known this about the Florham Park Office, I would have waited and gone to NYC to do the appraisal.

Melina

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 3/30/2004 9:30:04 PM Patty wrote:




The reality, however, is that if you lost your ring today, you could replace it for just about what you paid.
----------------

I disagree. Rough is about to increase in price for the third time in about six months.

One of my friends just bought a stone, and her vendor commented that the price of rough is going through the roof - about a 30% increase!

Therefore, one cannot replace it for what he paid.

The appraiser should give you an appraisal price that would allow you to replace it on the retail market. Good appraisers recognize that giving an appraisal for double the price paid is only inflating insurance premiums. I worked with Rich Sherwood, and he gave me a very decent appraisal - 1.5 times what I paid for the stone.......and that was a very moderate appraisal.

 

[maristidou]

In your opinion what do you think it would cost us to replace this stone at some point in the future (both internet and retail)?

1.38 GIA Ideal F SI1 (eye clean) D:61.1 T:56 Crown Angle:34.8 Crown Height:15.0 Pavilion Angle:40.8 Pavilion depth:43.0 Fluo:None Sym:EX Pol:EX Girdle:N-M-F Culet:N 7.19 - 7.21 X 4.40 (It gets a 1.3 Score)
Full Price $8,455.00 (We are paying $8,170.00 -Wire Transfer)

The appraisal value we got on this stone is $8660 (according to the document this value includes taxes, shipping and insurance).

Surveying the internet for a stone to replace it with if it was lost today I came up with only one stone from Blue Nile:

1.37 GIA Ideal F SI1 D: 61.5% T: 56% Crown Angle:35.1 Pavilion Angle:40.9 Sym:Ex Pol:Ex Culet: 0.8 Fluo:none 7.11x7.16x4.39
It sells for $8780 ($8648 Wire Transfer) and gets a 2.1 Score

If with today’s prices the only comparable stone sells for $8648 (not counting taxes and shipping) I think it might be close to impossible to find a replacement with only $8660 years down the line.

Should I ask David Wolf to give us a retail appraisal value on the stone when we set it? (Nothing exaggerated - just a price than would allow us to find a fair replacement for the stone in the future and not limit us to the internet).

All comments are appreciated.

Thanks
Melina

 

[alexah]

David's just trying to keep your insurance costs down by not over-inflating the appraisal value. I'm certain that if you explain your concerns to him, he will adjust the amount accordingly (you could even print out that Blue Nile page & show it to him).