vespergirl
Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 29, 2007
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Opinions on my pick. 2.5 carats
- Thread starter johnn
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I think this is a mischaracterization of the PS''ers here. There are many experienced people here that give much in the way of their time and expertise to help people and educate them.Date: 9/11/2008 8:18:14 AM
Author: BKDJ
D. D. D. D. D. D. DITTO! that''s somewhat how I feel after I''ve been harassed here!
If you are going to ask questions, you are going to get answers. You may not like the answer but it is usually backed by facts. Don''t expect to ask about a dubious diamond and have everyone here say it is the superideal diamond to end all and you payed 50% below Rap.
Thanks sooo much for the replies. I disect and grab all good and bad points out of all the posts you guys made. I greatly appreciate it. I think I''m going to do what I originally said. Call him NOW and ask him if the GIA stone is still available, if it is, get the specs on it. Then ask/tell him why the deal on the GIA stone he originally offered was sooo much better, if the specs are as good.
I will also take the stones outside and look at them in the sun, the shade, in other stores, his store is all flourescant lights so diamonds look great.
Another thing I will do is have it appraised elsewhere after i take it from him, no matter what diamond I get. I wont hesitate to do this and confront him if there''s something wrong. He said on 2 different times he''ll give me what I paid at any point in time after I take it. He''s a close family friend and he will stand behind his word. There was a mixup in the grading report, from EGL Isreal/Belguim or GIA, but I''m sure it was justa mixup, nothing more.
LASTLY and most importantly, where can I find the rapaport sheet of how much this I SI1 2.5 EGL Isreal diamond costs? Pricescope search doesn''t show too many options. There are a few at $18K just for the stone and a few at $11K. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Thanks guys.
I''m calling him NOW and will report back.
I will also take the stones outside and look at them in the sun, the shade, in other stores, his store is all flourescant lights so diamonds look great.
Another thing I will do is have it appraised elsewhere after i take it from him, no matter what diamond I get. I wont hesitate to do this and confront him if there''s something wrong. He said on 2 different times he''ll give me what I paid at any point in time after I take it. He''s a close family friend and he will stand behind his word. There was a mixup in the grading report, from EGL Isreal/Belguim or GIA, but I''m sure it was justa mixup, nothing more.
LASTLY and most importantly, where can I find the rapaport sheet of how much this I SI1 2.5 EGL Isreal diamond costs? Pricescope search doesn''t show too many options. There are a few at $18K just for the stone and a few at $11K. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Thanks guys.
I''m calling him NOW and will report back.
Rather than looking for a rap sheet, which can be very difficult for consumers to use to their advantage, use the information from your price comparison. I repeated your search and I count 5 stones that are I/SI1 2.5-3 ct, graded by EGL Israel. All from Abazias (because Abazias clearly distinguishes their EGL Israel certs), which will make comparing prices a little easier because the same vendor is pricing them and the markup should be similar.
They range from $4800 to $7200 per carat, and from $11k to $18k actual price. Where can this difference come from? Clearly they are pricing the stones on things that would NOT be given separate categories on a Rap sheet - these stones would all be in the same little price bin on a Rap sheet, and yet still be properly priced in the trade with this wide variation in price per carat.
Its because the vendor actually looks at the stone in question (or the vendor's supplier looked at the stone in question) and adjusts the price based on several things. One, cut. You even get some hint of this on Abazais - they estimate the cut grade from the stone's measurements, and the two stones that get an "ideal" cut rating are priced much lower per carat than the stones that get "premium" cut grades. Two, SI clarity in larger stones can vary widely in eyecleanliness. These are all SI1, but the price difference between an eyeclean SI1 and an SI1 with its grademaking inclusion right under the table, visible to most people, is substantial. Three, "lucky" stones or "unlucky" stones might have been misgraded by the lab, and thus a vendor may adjust the price a bit despite the lab grade, or they might be properly graded but very close to the line. As in, a vendor might not charge as much for a J-graded stone that is close to a K as they would for a J-graded stone close to an I. Four, stones are priced a little higher per carat at the upper end of a size braket. For example, is a 2.5 ct stone is $5k/ct, an otherwise identical 2.9 ct stone might be $6k/ct. Or more.
So, you are getting good pricing information from the ps search - its just that price is affected by things that are not easily put into little bins. Which is why it is important to take your stone to an independent appraiser so you have a professional opinion on the pricing.
They range from $4800 to $7200 per carat, and from $11k to $18k actual price. Where can this difference come from? Clearly they are pricing the stones on things that would NOT be given separate categories on a Rap sheet - these stones would all be in the same little price bin on a Rap sheet, and yet still be properly priced in the trade with this wide variation in price per carat.
Its because the vendor actually looks at the stone in question (or the vendor's supplier looked at the stone in question) and adjusts the price based on several things. One, cut. You even get some hint of this on Abazais - they estimate the cut grade from the stone's measurements, and the two stones that get an "ideal" cut rating are priced much lower per carat than the stones that get "premium" cut grades. Two, SI clarity in larger stones can vary widely in eyecleanliness. These are all SI1, but the price difference between an eyeclean SI1 and an SI1 with its grademaking inclusion right under the table, visible to most people, is substantial. Three, "lucky" stones or "unlucky" stones might have been misgraded by the lab, and thus a vendor may adjust the price a bit despite the lab grade, or they might be properly graded but very close to the line. As in, a vendor might not charge as much for a J-graded stone that is close to a K as they would for a J-graded stone close to an I. Four, stones are priced a little higher per carat at the upper end of a size braket. For example, is a 2.5 ct stone is $5k/ct, an otherwise identical 2.9 ct stone might be $6k/ct. Or more.
So, you are getting good pricing information from the ps search - its just that price is affected by things that are not easily put into little bins. Which is why it is important to take your stone to an independent appraiser so you have a professional opinion on the pricing.
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 13, 2006
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Wow guys, I just got off the phone with him. There was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much confusion. That first H SI1 GIA stone he offered me for $15K was also not GIA, it was an EGL stone. I dont know how I confused this with him when I first went it. I know for a fact I barely knew what GIA and EGL even were when I first went it.
To cut to the chase I told him I really appreciate the deal. It''s not as insane as the deal where I thought it was a GIA stone, but it''s still a really good deal. He says it''s IMPOSIBLE to tell the stone apart from a better color/clarity stone of the same size in the setting by eye. It''s impossible. Do you guys agree on this? He says it''s a really good cut compared to the best stones on Earth. Again, I hope he''s right. I am sticking with this EGL Isreal stone becasue I saw it myself compared to other 2.5 carat stones and it looks the same. I asked him about how it would look in the sun/shade/other interior lighting, and he said I might go blind if I look long enough. He stands behind it 1000% and said to take it anywhere I want for a second opinon after I get it, and obviously before I give it to her. He repeated again that he''d give me my money back anytime and no ill feelings at all for ANY reason. He also said he''d retail that stone for $17-19K in a setting to anyone else walking into his store.
I guess I''m sticking with it and I will try to find someone to run it to to have it apraised after i get it.
Thanks again so much for the replies. Sorry again to mess up the certifications on everyone and cause a controversy. Any aditional thoughts are absolutely MORE THAN WELCOME!!! Thanks again.
John
To cut to the chase I told him I really appreciate the deal. It''s not as insane as the deal where I thought it was a GIA stone, but it''s still a really good deal. He says it''s IMPOSIBLE to tell the stone apart from a better color/clarity stone of the same size in the setting by eye. It''s impossible. Do you guys agree on this? He says it''s a really good cut compared to the best stones on Earth. Again, I hope he''s right. I am sticking with this EGL Isreal stone becasue I saw it myself compared to other 2.5 carat stones and it looks the same. I asked him about how it would look in the sun/shade/other interior lighting, and he said I might go blind if I look long enough. He stands behind it 1000% and said to take it anywhere I want for a second opinon after I get it, and obviously before I give it to her. He repeated again that he''d give me my money back anytime and no ill feelings at all for ANY reason. He also said he''d retail that stone for $17-19K in a setting to anyone else walking into his store.
I guess I''m sticking with it and I will try to find someone to run it to to have it apraised after i get it.
Thanks again so much for the replies. Sorry again to mess up the certifications on everyone and cause a controversy. Any aditional thoughts are absolutely MORE THAN WELCOME!!! Thanks again.
John
John
I think you are making a mistake NOT taking this to an INDEPENDANT APPRAISER before committing to the stone. I hate to be negative but I find much of what you are quoting (your Uncle) to be somewhat sales-pitchy and dramatic language from someone who is presumably a professional jeweler. I.E., its "IMPOSSIBLE" to tell the stone apart from..." and "its a really good cut compared to the best stones on Earth."
I dont understand why you dont take it to an appraiser before committing to buying it. Plain and simple. I am not saying he is cheating you or that it is a bad stone but he is selling you a big stone for what seems like a great price with some caveats: medicocre cert and no other information.
Johnn, lets just assume that your uncle is completely honest, selling this stone to you at his cost, giving you his honest opinion that the stone H/SI stone and the I/SI stone are indistinguishable when set and viewed face up (that is possible, 1 color grade difference may be difficult to see when set), and that all the confusion of the certs was miscommunication.
The fact is you are now getting a moderately good price on the stone. There is a reason that EGL-Israel graded stones cost less than GIA ones - send off your I/SI1 EGL stone to GIA, and maybe their opinion is its a K/L I1. That accounts for a lot of the price difference.
My question is, is this what you want? Is this what your girlfriend wants? A large stone that may or may not be I/SI ideal cut, as other more reputable labs would grade it? Or are you just buying this one cause its big, its your uncle, its a "deal", and all this diamond stuff is emotionally and financially nerve racking?
Its your money and your girlfriend, but I'm just asking because me, personally, I would much rather have a 1.5-2 ct I/SI stone (as graded by GIA or AGS) with a pricescope-worthy ideal cut for your budget. Not whatever your uncle is calling ideal cut, again, not because he must be dishonest, but because many jewelers simply do not have the same cut standards that are commonly desired on pricescope, and sparkles count.
But you seem committed to this route, so please, do take it to an independent appraiser, and do post pictures once your ring is done!
The fact is you are now getting a moderately good price on the stone. There is a reason that EGL-Israel graded stones cost less than GIA ones - send off your I/SI1 EGL stone to GIA, and maybe their opinion is its a K/L I1. That accounts for a lot of the price difference.
My question is, is this what you want? Is this what your girlfriend wants? A large stone that may or may not be I/SI ideal cut, as other more reputable labs would grade it? Or are you just buying this one cause its big, its your uncle, its a "deal", and all this diamond stuff is emotionally and financially nerve racking?
Its your money and your girlfriend, but I'm just asking because me, personally, I would much rather have a 1.5-2 ct I/SI stone (as graded by GIA or AGS) with a pricescope-worthy ideal cut for your budget. Not whatever your uncle is calling ideal cut, again, not because he must be dishonest, but because many jewelers simply do not have the same cut standards that are commonly desired on pricescope, and sparkles count.
But you seem committed to this route, so please, do take it to an independent appraiser, and do post pictures once your ring is done!
Futuremrss
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
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- 156
John, I am sorry, but I bet your uncle will never offer you another deal again. I certainly wouldn''t. The craziest part to all of this is if the uncle was NOT giving you a deal then no one on this "vendor owned site would" be trying to talk you out of it. No, I take that back, they would...because that is what they seem to do, here...shocking that a bunch of vendors on a vendor sponsored site would be trying to talk you out of buying a ring from your uncle.
You know what? I question John now too....I do not think John is a legitimate poster. No one would look at a stone that they liked that much, that they are buying from their uncle and then come on some random vendor owned site and question this deal THAT much. This is probably some vendor, who made up this thread to "teach" or "scare" people not to trust their family or local jewelers.
Then John if you are real...please do not buy that ring. Pay the $33000.00 and get it from someone on line and on this site because I am not sure you are confident enough to ever like or trust that this ring was legit. Just don''t buy it (I think that is what you want to hear.)
You know what? I question John now too....I do not think John is a legitimate poster. No one would look at a stone that they liked that much, that they are buying from their uncle and then come on some random vendor owned site and question this deal THAT much. This is probably some vendor, who made up this thread to "teach" or "scare" people not to trust their family or local jewelers.
Then John if you are real...please do not buy that ring. Pay the $33000.00 and get it from someone on line and on this site because I am not sure you are confident enough to ever like or trust that this ring was legit. Just don''t buy it (I think that is what you want to hear.)
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
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- 58,579
I also happen to be a cautious consumer and certainly want to see people high quality diamonds for their money. EGL Israel is known to be loose in grading, so that stone is likely a lower color and clarity grade. However, if he wants a 2.5 ct. diamond and size is the number one factor, then he should go for it! You''re probably paying a decent price for what you''re getting!
I sort of resent posts that cast doubt on people''s comments who were trying to warn him to be careful. I think he was being a good consumer trying to get some confirmation about his purchase, and people legitimately knew the price was too good to be true for a well cut GIA stone, and they were right.
To John, I hope the ring turns out beautifully and that she LOVES it! I hope you will come back and post pictures for us!
I sort of resent posts that cast doubt on people''s comments who were trying to warn him to be careful. I think he was being a good consumer trying to get some confirmation about his purchase, and people legitimately knew the price was too good to be true for a well cut GIA stone, and they were right.
To John, I hope the ring turns out beautifully and that she LOVES it! I hope you will come back and post pictures for us!
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 18, 2008
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Futuremrss
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
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- 156
So...OK...you are not a vendor, but you are not in the jewelry industry either, even worse.
So, you have no formal training from the GIA (a non profit) your education is from vendor sponsored sites.
Really, you could be anyone. Whose to say you are not a vendor? Have you ever watched Dateline? Some 40 year old men claim NOT to be 40 year old men and actually 13 year old little girls. They are preditors. This is the internet. You could be anyone. How safe is the internet? Not very...
John obviously does not trust his uncle or he would not ask random people on the internet whether or not his own uncle was screwing him over.
If you want facts then you will go to a non-profit school.
Here is a quote from the GIA site.
Many people in the trade use the term “optical symmetry” in referring to “branded” diamonds that show near-perfect eight-fold symmetry by displaying eight “hearts” in the pavilion-up position, or eight “arrows” in the face-up position, when viewed in specially designed optical viewers. To investigate the possible benefits of optical symmetry, we included several such diamonds in our observation testing. We found that although many diamonds with optical symmetry received high observation scores, other diamonds (with very different proportions and, in many cases, no discernable optical symmetry) were ranked just as highly.
So, you have no formal training from the GIA (a non profit) your education is from vendor sponsored sites.
Really, you could be anyone. Whose to say you are not a vendor? Have you ever watched Dateline? Some 40 year old men claim NOT to be 40 year old men and actually 13 year old little girls. They are preditors. This is the internet. You could be anyone. How safe is the internet? Not very...
John obviously does not trust his uncle or he would not ask random people on the internet whether or not his own uncle was screwing him over.
If you want facts then you will go to a non-profit school.
Here is a quote from the GIA site.
Many people in the trade use the term “optical symmetry” in referring to “branded” diamonds that show near-perfect eight-fold symmetry by displaying eight “hearts” in the pavilion-up position, or eight “arrows” in the face-up position, when viewed in specially designed optical viewers. To investigate the possible benefits of optical symmetry, we included several such diamonds in our observation testing. We found that although many diamonds with optical symmetry received high observation scores, other diamonds (with very different proportions and, in many cases, no discernable optical symmetry) were ranked just as highly.
Ali
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2007
- Messages
- 354
Pricescope is NOT a 'vendor owned' site. It is a privately owned company focused on consumer education and advocacy.
We enforce strict policies for trade members in order to maintain the integrity of the forums. It is against Pricescope policy for any vendor to engage in self promotion.
Please do not besmirch the reputation of Pricescope by posting such inaccuracies.
Futuremrss
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 156
My bad..how interesting a webiste strictly for consumers to get information? How do you pick who is a featured vendor? Since they are getting nothing out of this site, except providing information then they must be nominated and elected. How do you nominate a vendor for election? I know some excellent vendors. I have never heard of people in retail doing something so generous. I would like to give all of the vendors an apology. I know that you never sell anything due to Pricescope and I cannot imagine the time and effort that you must put in to get nothing in return. There are not many like you. Everyone, please buy from a Pricescope vendor to reward them for what they do...no wait, that is not what they want. They just want to make sure you are getting the best diamond out there. THANK YOU!
I apologize. I would like to thank all of the vendors who so selfishly give their time and knowledge. I know that you are here strictly to educate the public. You have done such an excellent job or empowering the people. All of your information has never been disputed by actual independent educational sites like the GIA. You offer unbiased information! YAY!!!!!
I also would like to apologize to all of the people on Pricescope who have researched and bought a diamond. You clearly are the experts and your knowledge of diamonds should be regarded as the gospel. You clearly know all the schools of thoughts on diamonds. You are the equivalent to someone who has been in the industry for years, but actually you know a little more about cuts than the average diamond dealer. You make the world a better place!
That being said, due to the Socratic Method, there is NO POSSIBLE way that John''s uncle is selling him a pretty diamond for a decent price. Thank goodness John has come here!
The diamond has an EGL-Isreal report and therefor CANNOT possibly be a well cut stone. The EGL is not known for consistency so therefore it can only be that they gave the stone a better cut rating than it actually has. Vespergirl just got the one-in-a-million one!
Diamonds are never sold by people who get divorced or upgraded. People never get robbed and people never go to Vegas and pawn their diamonds. Diamonds are ONLY priced off of the diamond Rap. so Johns uncle is telling him lies. Thank goodness you uncovered the evil uncle!
Why no private messaging on Pricescope? I have always wondered that.
Cara, I applaud you! You have paid your dues. You have researched every "facet" (no pun intended) of the jewelry industry. You have educated yourself from the most unbiased source there is, PRICESCOPE! You have only gotten knowledge from the up and coming gemologists in the world. You go girl! Why be a Graduate Gemologist when you can educate yourself on the internet. If it is on the internet, it must be true.
You are completely right. There is no way this is a pretty diamond! Don''t you worry, everyone will have their perfect .5 carat when you are through with them. You have planted the seed of doubt! The uncle cannot be giving the nephew a good deal. He is obviously playing on his emotions and taking advantage of such a scary and emotional purchase. You might tear a few family members apart in the meantime, but, Cara, this is the cross you bear. I am glad it is not me.
Someone put in their link to a 1.5 carat from a Pricescope vendor for $17,000.00 and tell John how his girlfriend will appreciate that he saved her from the evil, ugly, dark, non-sparklie 2.5ct!!!!!! YAY!!!!!! We helped another one, we can all rest now!!!!!!!!!!
John, you may want to refer your uncle to this site so he can educate himself.
I apologize. I would like to thank all of the vendors who so selfishly give their time and knowledge. I know that you are here strictly to educate the public. You have done such an excellent job or empowering the people. All of your information has never been disputed by actual independent educational sites like the GIA. You offer unbiased information! YAY!!!!!
I also would like to apologize to all of the people on Pricescope who have researched and bought a diamond. You clearly are the experts and your knowledge of diamonds should be regarded as the gospel. You clearly know all the schools of thoughts on diamonds. You are the equivalent to someone who has been in the industry for years, but actually you know a little more about cuts than the average diamond dealer. You make the world a better place!
That being said, due to the Socratic Method, there is NO POSSIBLE way that John''s uncle is selling him a pretty diamond for a decent price. Thank goodness John has come here!
The diamond has an EGL-Isreal report and therefor CANNOT possibly be a well cut stone. The EGL is not known for consistency so therefore it can only be that they gave the stone a better cut rating than it actually has. Vespergirl just got the one-in-a-million one!
Diamonds are never sold by people who get divorced or upgraded. People never get robbed and people never go to Vegas and pawn their diamonds. Diamonds are ONLY priced off of the diamond Rap. so Johns uncle is telling him lies. Thank goodness you uncovered the evil uncle!
Why no private messaging on Pricescope? I have always wondered that.
Cara, I applaud you! You have paid your dues. You have researched every "facet" (no pun intended) of the jewelry industry. You have educated yourself from the most unbiased source there is, PRICESCOPE! You have only gotten knowledge from the up and coming gemologists in the world. You go girl! Why be a Graduate Gemologist when you can educate yourself on the internet. If it is on the internet, it must be true.
You are completely right. There is no way this is a pretty diamond! Don''t you worry, everyone will have their perfect .5 carat when you are through with them. You have planted the seed of doubt! The uncle cannot be giving the nephew a good deal. He is obviously playing on his emotions and taking advantage of such a scary and emotional purchase. You might tear a few family members apart in the meantime, but, Cara, this is the cross you bear. I am glad it is not me.
Someone put in their link to a 1.5 carat from a Pricescope vendor for $17,000.00 and tell John how his girlfriend will appreciate that he saved her from the evil, ugly, dark, non-sparklie 2.5ct!!!!!! YAY!!!!!! We helped another one, we can all rest now!!!!!!!!!!
John, you may want to refer your uncle to this site so he can educate himself.
elle_chris
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2004
- Messages
- 3,520
Futuremrss- I understand what you''re saying but you need to remember that the first thing people talk about on this site is cut.
If John just wants to know if he''s getting a good deal on this stone, the simple answer is yes. If he wants to know if it''s an ideal cut that''s an I in color and SI1 in clarity, there''s just no way to tell unless he has it independently appraised.
This is an EGL stone. There''s a reason why they trade lower than GIA regardless of what''s said here. You can go into any store that carries both and see the price difference for yourself. In fact, you probably already have.
So why would it hurt to get another opinion from a professional? If it is what the cert says it is, everyone''s happy. If it''s lower color or clarity wise, then John would need to decide if he''s happy with it.
If John just wants to know if he''s getting a good deal on this stone, the simple answer is yes. If he wants to know if it''s an ideal cut that''s an I in color and SI1 in clarity, there''s just no way to tell unless he has it independently appraised.
This is an EGL stone. There''s a reason why they trade lower than GIA regardless of what''s said here. You can go into any store that carries both and see the price difference for yourself. In fact, you probably already have.
So why would it hurt to get another opinion from a professional? If it is what the cert says it is, everyone''s happy. If it''s lower color or clarity wise, then John would need to decide if he''s happy with it.
Futuremrs - if you really feel that way about Pricescope and the other members, why continue to post here?!
I am not a vendor, and I would tell the OP not to purchase that stone.
How do we know you are not just a competitor of Pricescope? Some other forum who wants to discredit the good name of PS?
ETA - the OP asked for our opinions, several times in fact, and he got them. What about that are you unhappy about? That these opinions weren't the ones you wanted to read? Let other people have their opinions without having a go at them.
I am not a vendor, and I would tell the OP not to purchase that stone.
How do we know you are not just a competitor of Pricescope? Some other forum who wants to discredit the good name of PS?
ETA - the OP asked for our opinions, several times in fact, and he got them. What about that are you unhappy about? That these opinions weren't the ones you wanted to read? Let other people have their opinions without having a go at them.
HariSeldon
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2008
- Messages
- 126
Sounds like someone missed their nap today QQ
futuremrs please spare us your misdirected angst at an unfulfilled life. if youre gonna be all emo take your ranting elsewhere were people might sympathize.. you're in the minority here.
you dont need a certificate to help others. you dont need qualification to be knowledgable in a field of study. hell take the field of physics for example. it wasnt a Phd college professor that revolutionized the field. it was a patent clerk who did research in his spare time that change the world. who was it? albert einstein. just because you might not be altruistic doesnt mean there arent people who truely want to help others selflessly.
SilverLily
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
- Messages
- 64
Umm, did you not see the part where people have said that EGL diamonds sell for much lower than GIA or AGS graded diamonds? (and you can easily check this out for yourself since we are all just a bunch of liars) Just why do you think that is? Do you think dealers just sell them less out of the goodness of their hearts?
And you need to calm down. Your post was the rudest on this thread so far. All anyone is saying to John is "be careful, get it independantly appraised, and question why this diamond is so cheap". That is wonderful advice...it will give John knowledge. Why are you so afraid of knowledge?
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 24,433
Futuremrss,
I think John came here because he doubted himself, not his uncle. He has never bought a diamond before, he wants to get his girl a great stone at a great price. That's why most people come here. I wish I could have known about this place when we got engaged (and no, I'm not a vendor either). I bought with my eyes, not knowing a thing about diamonds, or even the diamond in my ring (jeweler didn't tell me ONE thing). I ended up with a very so so stone. I now have a killer stone, and realize just how much I missed for 24 years. I would like to help people get that right off the bat (if that's what they want), instead of making the mistake I did. Because I was uninformed.
We want people to get the best for their money, and cut IS important to us. But I personally understand that sometimes size over rides cut with a customer, and that's fine. I have never said John's uncle was trying to rip him off. But as far as "friend of a friend"/friend of the family" goes? Do a search, there are many stories with not so happy endings. Rarely does it turn out well. And it makes for an uncomforatable situation when it doesn't. That's why we tend to steer people in another direction when we can. It's just not worth it, especially because those people usually get a better cut stone at a better price somewhere else (and that can be/has been from a jeweler in their hometown, not online). Sad but true.
We have no idea exactly how well cut the stones are John is looking at, all we can go on is what info we do have. And part of that is the grading report from EGL. And we all know what that can mean. Posters want John to know that too, so he makes as informed a decision as he can. THAT is why he came here. I've never heard him say anything to all the posters that have tried to help except thank you, he seems to appreciate the help, even if it's not all positive. We're not here to tell a person what they want to hear, we're hear to tell a person what they need to hear, then they can decide for themselves, after being well informed.
And as someone else asked, if you don't like it here, why are you staying?
I think John came here because he doubted himself, not his uncle. He has never bought a diamond before, he wants to get his girl a great stone at a great price. That's why most people come here. I wish I could have known about this place when we got engaged (and no, I'm not a vendor either). I bought with my eyes, not knowing a thing about diamonds, or even the diamond in my ring (jeweler didn't tell me ONE thing). I ended up with a very so so stone. I now have a killer stone, and realize just how much I missed for 24 years. I would like to help people get that right off the bat (if that's what they want), instead of making the mistake I did. Because I was uninformed.
We want people to get the best for their money, and cut IS important to us. But I personally understand that sometimes size over rides cut with a customer, and that's fine. I have never said John's uncle was trying to rip him off. But as far as "friend of a friend"/friend of the family" goes? Do a search, there are many stories with not so happy endings. Rarely does it turn out well. And it makes for an uncomforatable situation when it doesn't. That's why we tend to steer people in another direction when we can. It's just not worth it, especially because those people usually get a better cut stone at a better price somewhere else (and that can be/has been from a jeweler in their hometown, not online). Sad but true.
We have no idea exactly how well cut the stones are John is looking at, all we can go on is what info we do have. And part of that is the grading report from EGL. And we all know what that can mean. Posters want John to know that too, so he makes as informed a decision as he can. THAT is why he came here. I've never heard him say anything to all the posters that have tried to help except thank you, he seems to appreciate the help, even if it's not all positive. We're not here to tell a person what they want to hear, we're hear to tell a person what they need to hear, then they can decide for themselves, after being well informed.
And as someone else asked, if you don't like it here, why are you staying?
I am baffled by your hostility FUTUREMRSS. Most the folks replying to Johnn''s question are just regular people who like diamonds and jewelry, who are interested in learning and helping others. Yes there are advertisers here and the many vendors are also posters but it is usually pretty clear who they are. Is it a perfect world no? Are there vendors out there who are masqerading as "regular" people? Maybe. However, I do know from time and experince, despite the fact that I am NOT a graduate gemologist or employed in the jewelry industry in any way, that cut quality is very misunderstood and rarely taken into account by the purchaser. I have bought a few diamonds in the past woefully ignorant of cut and when I finally educated my self through BOOKS and then the internet I was flabbergasted when I finally saw and owned well cut stones. Many people here have had my experience and that is why we are so vigilant about those additional factors (besides carat weight and cost) when purchasing for ourselves or attempting to help others.
vespergirl
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2007
- Messages
- 5,497
Since I got thrown into the mix here, all I want to say is that as the owner of an EGL Israel stone, I can sometimes see where Futuremrss is coming from. I understand that EGL does not have the same reputation as GIA or AGS, but that does not mean that all EGL stones are crappy. The B&M vendor where I bought my diamond, Mervis Diamond Importers, carries AGS, GIA, and EGL stones. When I went to to select my diamond with my Idealscope, I inspected the diamonds against one another, and I found that ALL of the labs had killer diamonds, and ALL of the labs had diamonds that I did not care for. None of the GIA rounds they had at the time I was shopping had as nice of an H&A pattern as my EGL stone did, which is why I went for that one. And before, when I had an asscher, I chose an EGL asscher over an AGS asscher, which were the same price, because I liked the pattern better in the EGL stone. I also had an asscher that had a GIA cert, and I ended up trading in for an EGL asscher, because it had a dark drop that I did not like.
All I''m saying is that it''s important to but the DIAMOND, not the certificate. If you go in to a jewlery shop armed with an Idealscope, and are able to view a diamond in different lights, and like what you see, then buy that diamond. You are not buying numbers on paper - you''re buying a ring that goes on a hand. I think all that Futuremrss is saying is that sometimes the PS community can seem biased against EGL stones, even though many of us on here own beautiful EGL stones.
It can sometimes feel like
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2008
- Messages
- 9,758
Mrs, why are you attemping to ruin what has otherwise been an informative and mature thread.??
Your sarcasm and misinformation are simply embarassing.
How about now revealing what your motivations are for such over the top ridicule of PS - John has repeatedly said how he appreciates ALL the points of view and advice offered in this thread - I fail to see Why this has gotten you so bent out of shape?
Actually, you know what, I don''t even care - if you don''t like it here, nobody''s forcing your hand.
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 24,433
But, one does buy a stone by Carat, Color and Clarity on paper, the stone is priced on that.
However, I totally hear what you''re saying, and I know for a fact there are people on this board that have beautiful EGL diamonds. But I do think it would only be prudent to have an EGL stone looked at by an IA, to make sure one is actually getting what one is supposedly paying for. Do you disagree?
elle_chris
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2004
- Messages
- 3,520
Vespergirl, I can understand where you're coming from. As for my e-ring I didn't choose an H&A stone either. I wanted a beautiful stone that performed. The H&A pattern to me was last on my, "what I want in my diamond" list.
But, your stone checked out with an appraiser. That's wonderful. That doesn't mean that all EGL stones do though. In fact, from the price differences, my own appraiser and the stories and expert opinions on this board, EGL Israel rarely do.
So why would it hurt to have it looked at? It wouldn't. His uncle said he would take it back at anytime, great. John has nothing to lose by having someone independant look at the stone. If not for any other reason than his own peace of mind.
But, your stone checked out with an appraiser. That's wonderful. That doesn't mean that all EGL stones do though. In fact, from the price differences, my own appraiser and the stories and expert opinions on this board, EGL Israel rarely do.
So why would it hurt to have it looked at? It wouldn't. His uncle said he would take it back at anytime, great. John has nothing to lose by having someone independant look at the stone. If not for any other reason than his own peace of mind.
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Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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