Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Opinions on a Havanese?
- Thread starter Rosebud8506
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AmberGretchen
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Rosebud - I''m just curious, but why not an adult rescued cat? If there are specific breeds you have reasons for seeking, then I respect that, but many many cats are good with children and there are so many cats that need homes. And honestly, no purebred kitten or puppy will ever be a 100% guarantee of any given personality trait(s). Your best bet if you want to be sure you are getting a cat who is good with children is to work with a rescue group that has their cats in foster homes and can find you one who has been aorund children as an adult cat, because their personalities can change dramatically from the time they are kittens. I would be happy to help you find such a group in your area if you tell me where you are located. And if you are completely set on a Havanese, you may still be able to get an adult rescue with known behavior around kids.
I''m not intending this as any kind of flame or judgment, just trying to share what I''ve learned in volunteering at an animal shelter that has a lot of animal behaviorists and trainers who work there - that matching what potential owners want in specific behavior traits with traits that an adult animal actually has gives the best chance for success when bringing a pet into the home.
I''m not intending this as any kind of flame or judgment, just trying to share what I''ve learned in volunteering at an animal shelter that has a lot of animal behaviorists and trainers who work there - that matching what potential owners want in specific behavior traits with traits that an adult animal actually has gives the best chance for success when bringing a pet into the home.
surfgirl
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CrookedRock
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Hey Rosebud! Firstly, I have to say that I know nothing about that particular breed... But I am assuming you''re a cat lover like myself... I personally am a Bengal lover, and three years I got my first one. Unfortunately I lost him about a year ago, but he made such an impact on me that I still have at least one monent each week that I can''t stop crying about him. He was the most amazing cat I have ever had, and I have had cats my whole life. After we lost him we decided to try and do a good deed and rescue another Bengal (the first one came from a breeder), he was nothing like the first one. I think that cats form their personalities at a young age and you never know where they come from when you rescue them. I am such an animal lover and when I think about all the animals up for adoption I get emotional. Having said that, I will still get my next cat (a Savannah) from a breeder, just to play it safe. There are plenty of people who just want a regular cat, but for us "cat snobs" I totally say find a good breeder and you''ll be happy!! Keep us posted on your search!!! As for the dog comment... I have a chocolate lab, and absolutely adore him!!! But cats and dogs are very different and recquire totally different time and attention... If a cat is what you want, GO For It!
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Hey guys!
We''re not cat people unfortunatly, and a cat isn''t an option for us, although good info here regarding that.
We are looking into a dog simply because we both love dogs and have had dogs growing up, but we also don''t want to get a large breed dog like a lab or chessy, for example. We bought a dog book over the weekend to try to learn about the different breeds of dogs and we want something that is on the smaller side. The Hav''s seemed like a good option because we are going to have children in the next couple of years.
There are also a few Westies in our neighborhood and I know there are some PS''ers that are owners, and we contemplated that breed, but my concern was their temperment with kids and if it would ever get bored?
We''re not cat people unfortunatly, and a cat isn''t an option for us, although good info here regarding that.
We are looking into a dog simply because we both love dogs and have had dogs growing up, but we also don''t want to get a large breed dog like a lab or chessy, for example. We bought a dog book over the weekend to try to learn about the different breeds of dogs and we want something that is on the smaller side. The Hav''s seemed like a good option because we are going to have children in the next couple of years.
There are also a few Westies in our neighborhood and I know there are some PS''ers that are owners, and we contemplated that breed, but my concern was their temperment with kids and if it would ever get bored?
njc
Brilliant_Rock
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Sorry I dont know much about Havanese, but you and your DH sound a lot like us (dog lovers, grew up with them) and have similar things you want looking for a dog (smaller, good with kids).
We ended up with a Miniature Schnauzer who we love to absolute bits! There are a couple other current or previous owners on here as well. Besides everything we read about them, I have 2 friends that have Minis and it was really being around their dogs that got me hooked and then DH. One of the friends has had Minis off and on her entire life (she is my parents age).
While we dont have any kids of our own around her at the moment (she is getting a little brother in October though!), there are lots of little kids in our neighborhood and she is SOO good with them. She is gentle and can be crazy hyper, but the minute she gets close to them, she sits down and lets them pet her. My older friend has a 6 mos old granddaughter and her Mini is great around her as well.
Another fab thing, she doesnt shed! I love that I never have hair on me or the furniture or all over the floor. We had a lab growing up, so nothing was safe! She is really sturdy (all muscle) and she loves to wrestle with DH, so I know she will be able to handle the kids being rough. She also loves to snuggle and sleep in the bed with you.
Her down sides are she likes to bark and can be hyper if she doesnt get enough attention and excercise. Of course she is an older puppy (1.5 years) and we have noticed her getting calmer as time goes on. Also my friends Minis are older 3-10 years and are much calmer, so they do mellow... slowly! She really only barks at stuff outside and we can tell her to "be quiet" and she does a muffled kind of bark or will stop all together. I think you will get the barking with just about any terrier though.
I am definatly pro-rescue/shelter any kind of animal. I feel bad we didnt pick from there, but at the same time our baby could have had a totally different life without us, know what I mean? I also think we both wanted to experience a puppy. I dont remember my dog growing up as a pup and niether does DH, so it was an experience in itself. Next time around, I am very willing to look at the Schnauzer rescues first, esp since there is one so close by!
Good luck picking! I dont think you can wrong if you put a little research in it! Everyone has their favorites...
We ended up with a Miniature Schnauzer who we love to absolute bits! There are a couple other current or previous owners on here as well. Besides everything we read about them, I have 2 friends that have Minis and it was really being around their dogs that got me hooked and then DH. One of the friends has had Minis off and on her entire life (she is my parents age).
While we dont have any kids of our own around her at the moment (she is getting a little brother in October though!), there are lots of little kids in our neighborhood and she is SOO good with them. She is gentle and can be crazy hyper, but the minute she gets close to them, she sits down and lets them pet her. My older friend has a 6 mos old granddaughter and her Mini is great around her as well.
Another fab thing, she doesnt shed! I love that I never have hair on me or the furniture or all over the floor. We had a lab growing up, so nothing was safe! She is really sturdy (all muscle) and she loves to wrestle with DH, so I know she will be able to handle the kids being rough. She also loves to snuggle and sleep in the bed with you.
Her down sides are she likes to bark and can be hyper if she doesnt get enough attention and excercise. Of course she is an older puppy (1.5 years) and we have noticed her getting calmer as time goes on. Also my friends Minis are older 3-10 years and are much calmer, so they do mellow... slowly! She really only barks at stuff outside and we can tell her to "be quiet" and she does a muffled kind of bark or will stop all together. I think you will get the barking with just about any terrier though.
I am definatly pro-rescue/shelter any kind of animal. I feel bad we didnt pick from there, but at the same time our baby could have had a totally different life without us, know what I mean? I also think we both wanted to experience a puppy. I dont remember my dog growing up as a pup and niether does DH, so it was an experience in itself. Next time around, I am very willing to look at the Schnauzer rescues first, esp since there is one so close by!
Good luck picking! I dont think you can wrong if you put a little research in it! Everyone has their favorites...
Rosebud8506
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CrookedRock
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AmberGretchen
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Oops...
I feel really silly. I had been looking at a cat breeds book and there are Havanese cats too now, apparently, so I thought that was what you meant!! Don''t I feel silly...
Anyway, looking for a dog, the same things apply but even more so. Unless you plan to show your dog, or have EXTREMELY specific behavioral requirements (such as needing a dog that will be good at retrieving game when you go hunting) there is very few compelling reasons to buy a purebred dog. Over 25% of the dogs in US shelters are purebreds (though I recognize that Havanese are a rare breed so they may be harder to find), and there are a wide array of breed-specific rescue groups out there. In terms of deciding on a purebred vs. a mutt, that''s a call that only you and your DH can make, although there are certainly a lot of really wonderful mixed-breeds out there in shelters, over 50% of whom are put to sleep within a very short time period because there just aren''t enough potential adopters. If you are set on a purebred This is a really good selection tool to help you clarify what you are looking for in a dog and will suggest some breeds that might be good matches for you.
Whatever you do, please don''t buy a dog from a pet store or a back yard breeder. These two groups (and the puppy mills who supply the pet stores) are responsible for the incredible suffering and death of millions of dogs in the United States and throughout the world every year. They are also a major source of the overpopulation of unwanted dogs in the US and throughout the world.
Breed-specific rescues, shelters, and reputable breeders are all good alternative choices and will give you better odds of a healthier happier dog. Puppies are available through all of these sources if you are really attached to a puppy (although they are a TON of work - think waking up every few hours around the clock to let them out to potty - they are equivalent to a one-year-old child in terms of the amount of care required).
A reputable breeder will be a breeder that shows their dogs in conformation shows (for conformation to the breed standard), and, if appropriate for the breed, in hunting, agility, obedience, or other types of trials/shows. They will only breed dogs that are champions (meaning they are good examples of their breed) AND have had health checks done - hips checked at a minimum (OFA certification is standard), plus any health issues the breed may have, including but not limited to heart and eyes.
Many shelters and rescues these days (including the one where I volunteer) have extensive behavioral evaluation done on their dogs before they adopt them to you, and will rigorously evaluate the fit between you and the dog to maximize the chances of a happy fit for the rest of the dog''s life. They will also often have the dog spayed/neutered and microchipped and vaccinated before you take it home, which saves you the time and expense of having to do it yourself. Spay/neuter and microchipping are two of the most important things you can do as a responsible pet owner.
Wherever you get the dog, whatever age, breed, size, etc... of dog you get, the single most important thing you can do to ensure you and your DH and the dog are happy is to practice good training techniques from the outset. Make sure to sign up for obedience classes with your new dog, or even with a puppy (proper socialization for puppies is incredibly important - they need to meet as many new people as possible and experience as many sights, sounds and smells as possible all with positive associations), sign up for puppy class. Establishing and maintaining this relationship with your dog is so crucial. Read up on training before you get the dog so you have the knowledge you will need. This is an excellent site to read up on dog training techniques. I volunteer at this shelter and I''ve done a ton of research about dog training and animal behavior and they have some of the most advanced and sophisticated training concepts and techniques available. Having worked with a lot of the shelter dogs using these techniques I can tell you also that they really work - astonishingly well.
Anyway, I''ll step down off my soapbox now. I (clearly haha
) feel very strongly about a lot of this since I spend a lot of time volunteering at a shelter and reading about animal behavior etc...I guess I just want to try to ensure that if I possibly can I share my knowledge and experience to help increase the odds of the right dog ending up with the right family and everyone being happy for the long term.
I think its fantastic that you and your DH are thinking of getting a dog, and I wish you and your new family member the best of luck
Anyway, looking for a dog, the same things apply but even more so. Unless you plan to show your dog, or have EXTREMELY specific behavioral requirements (such as needing a dog that will be good at retrieving game when you go hunting) there is very few compelling reasons to buy a purebred dog. Over 25% of the dogs in US shelters are purebreds (though I recognize that Havanese are a rare breed so they may be harder to find), and there are a wide array of breed-specific rescue groups out there. In terms of deciding on a purebred vs. a mutt, that''s a call that only you and your DH can make, although there are certainly a lot of really wonderful mixed-breeds out there in shelters, over 50% of whom are put to sleep within a very short time period because there just aren''t enough potential adopters. If you are set on a purebred This is a really good selection tool to help you clarify what you are looking for in a dog and will suggest some breeds that might be good matches for you.
Whatever you do, please don''t buy a dog from a pet store or a back yard breeder. These two groups (and the puppy mills who supply the pet stores) are responsible for the incredible suffering and death of millions of dogs in the United States and throughout the world every year. They are also a major source of the overpopulation of unwanted dogs in the US and throughout the world.
Breed-specific rescues, shelters, and reputable breeders are all good alternative choices and will give you better odds of a healthier happier dog. Puppies are available through all of these sources if you are really attached to a puppy (although they are a TON of work - think waking up every few hours around the clock to let them out to potty - they are equivalent to a one-year-old child in terms of the amount of care required).
A reputable breeder will be a breeder that shows their dogs in conformation shows (for conformation to the breed standard), and, if appropriate for the breed, in hunting, agility, obedience, or other types of trials/shows. They will only breed dogs that are champions (meaning they are good examples of their breed) AND have had health checks done - hips checked at a minimum (OFA certification is standard), plus any health issues the breed may have, including but not limited to heart and eyes.
Many shelters and rescues these days (including the one where I volunteer) have extensive behavioral evaluation done on their dogs before they adopt them to you, and will rigorously evaluate the fit between you and the dog to maximize the chances of a happy fit for the rest of the dog''s life. They will also often have the dog spayed/neutered and microchipped and vaccinated before you take it home, which saves you the time and expense of having to do it yourself. Spay/neuter and microchipping are two of the most important things you can do as a responsible pet owner.
Wherever you get the dog, whatever age, breed, size, etc... of dog you get, the single most important thing you can do to ensure you and your DH and the dog are happy is to practice good training techniques from the outset. Make sure to sign up for obedience classes with your new dog, or even with a puppy (proper socialization for puppies is incredibly important - they need to meet as many new people as possible and experience as many sights, sounds and smells as possible all with positive associations), sign up for puppy class. Establishing and maintaining this relationship with your dog is so crucial. Read up on training before you get the dog so you have the knowledge you will need. This is an excellent site to read up on dog training techniques. I volunteer at this shelter and I''ve done a ton of research about dog training and animal behavior and they have some of the most advanced and sophisticated training concepts and techniques available. Having worked with a lot of the shelter dogs using these techniques I can tell you also that they really work - astonishingly well.
Anyway, I''ll step down off my soapbox now. I (clearly haha
I think its fantastic that you and your DH are thinking of getting a dog, and I wish you and your new family member the best of luck
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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AG: I didn''t know there was a breed of Havanese cats out there! To be honest, before reading this book we bought on dog breeds, I hadn''t even heard of it before... dog. cat. whatever! no worries
I actually tried looking up hav''s on petfinder.com and didn''t have much luck. While I am all about rescuing dogs (we got 3 out of 4 of our childhood dogs from a local shelter), my parents had a tramatic experience with their last rescue - a jack russel/boxer mix. He lept for my Mom''s throat (there were other incidents with biting and attacking neighbors and friends) and after putting him through training, and every other possible thing you could imagine, they just had to bring him back and explain what happened to the shelter. He just had a vicious streak in him, and always felt threatened, we couldn''t even pet him w/o him growling and snarling at us. I believe he was quarantined, and we aren''t sure what happened to him after that.
I know that is just one experience, and it may have been the breed, but there was something not right with him, and perhaps he was abused by his previous family - we''ll never know. It makes me sad.
If we can find the right puppy, I''m all about adopting! Right now I''m just trying to see what is out there for us. I''m going to check out those links you posted.
I actually tried looking up hav''s on petfinder.com and didn''t have much luck. While I am all about rescuing dogs (we got 3 out of 4 of our childhood dogs from a local shelter), my parents had a tramatic experience with their last rescue - a jack russel/boxer mix. He lept for my Mom''s throat (there were other incidents with biting and attacking neighbors and friends) and after putting him through training, and every other possible thing you could imagine, they just had to bring him back and explain what happened to the shelter. He just had a vicious streak in him, and always felt threatened, we couldn''t even pet him w/o him growling and snarling at us. I believe he was quarantined, and we aren''t sure what happened to him after that.
I know that is just one experience, and it may have been the breed, but there was something not right with him, and perhaps he was abused by his previous family - we''ll never know. It makes me sad.
If we can find the right puppy, I''m all about adopting! Right now I''m just trying to see what is out there for us. I''m going to check out those links you posted.
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Rosebud,
I have a poodle, pom, and chihuahua: 5.5 lbs, 2.5 lbs, and almost 2 lbs. They are all great with kids, (I don''t have any myself - but the neighborhood babies, and friend''s babies terrorize them!) The only one that is a little skittish is the pom, and she was adopted at about 3 years old. She just barks incessantly at anyone under 3 ft tall and runs and hides from them. She was abused a bit and that may explain it. I think almost any breed that isn''t "bad with children" can be super socialized to be good with them. My poodle and chi were exposed to all kinds tall, short, old and young from the moment I got them and they are happy as clams and love all people and kids. It is the 8 to 12 week range that they say is the most important. When they are pups, when I play with them I pull on their tails a little, mess with their paws and their ears, stomp around them etc - stuff that seems mean, but little kids do it, and if you start doing it with a smile when they are pups, they (in my experience) totally don''t care about it when they are older.
Re your actual question: I have a friend who has a Havenese, male dog. She has two kids, under 10, who are pistols. They run around like maniacs and scream at the top of their lungs, they throw the pup (not far, but you know, kid-like) and chase him and tug of war - the whole bit. The dog seems to be fine with it and she has not ever told me of any bad incident. The only thing she complains of is that he is not housetrained at all and he is (I think) about three years old now. She sent him to one of those fancy L.A. boot camps for dogs, and it lasted like a minute.
Havs are super cute!
FYI, poodles don''t shed either, so any "poo" mix is usually a good bet, hair wise. Corgis are huge shedders and my friend with Corgi''s couch is so grody to me!
A dog I''ve had my eye on that is also supposed to be great is a Puggle. Pug and Beagle. ADORABLE. If you haven''t checked them out yet, google them and see if they are a good fit for you guys.
I have the name of two excellent breeders for poodles (in TX) and chis (in NC). I don''t know how to private message on here and don''t know the rules about posting phone numbers - but if you want the info we can contact Irina maybe to help me get it to you.
Good luck and when you get him or her....POST PICS!!!!
I have a poodle, pom, and chihuahua: 5.5 lbs, 2.5 lbs, and almost 2 lbs. They are all great with kids, (I don''t have any myself - but the neighborhood babies, and friend''s babies terrorize them!) The only one that is a little skittish is the pom, and she was adopted at about 3 years old. She just barks incessantly at anyone under 3 ft tall and runs and hides from them. She was abused a bit and that may explain it. I think almost any breed that isn''t "bad with children" can be super socialized to be good with them. My poodle and chi were exposed to all kinds tall, short, old and young from the moment I got them and they are happy as clams and love all people and kids. It is the 8 to 12 week range that they say is the most important. When they are pups, when I play with them I pull on their tails a little, mess with their paws and their ears, stomp around them etc - stuff that seems mean, but little kids do it, and if you start doing it with a smile when they are pups, they (in my experience) totally don''t care about it when they are older.
Re your actual question: I have a friend who has a Havenese, male dog. She has two kids, under 10, who are pistols. They run around like maniacs and scream at the top of their lungs, they throw the pup (not far, but you know, kid-like) and chase him and tug of war - the whole bit. The dog seems to be fine with it and she has not ever told me of any bad incident. The only thing she complains of is that he is not housetrained at all and he is (I think) about three years old now. She sent him to one of those fancy L.A. boot camps for dogs, and it lasted like a minute.
FYI, poodles don''t shed either, so any "poo" mix is usually a good bet, hair wise. Corgis are huge shedders and my friend with Corgi''s couch is so grody to me!
A dog I''ve had my eye on that is also supposed to be great is a Puggle. Pug and Beagle. ADORABLE. If you haven''t checked them out yet, google them and see if they are a good fit for you guys.
I have the name of two excellent breeders for poodles (in TX) and chis (in NC). I don''t know how to private message on here and don''t know the rules about posting phone numbers - but if you want the info we can contact Irina maybe to help me get it to you.
Good luck and when you get him or her....POST PICS!!!!
AmberGretchen
Ideal_Rock
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Rosebud - I''m so sorry to hear about your parents'' experience with that last adopted dog. Honestly, there are occasionally situations like that but I know for a fact that my shelter would NEVER have adopted out a dog with temperament issues that serious. Most shelters don''t have the resources to do comprehensive evaluations on the dogs they put up for adoption and are desperately trying to move as many dogs through as possible so they don''t have to euthanize any more than absolutely necessary to not be overrun. Increasingly, the importance of behavioral evaluation is being recognized, but it will be quite a while and will take quite a reduction in the pet overpopulation problem. Honestly, if a dog shows aggression towards humans unprovoked, it is most often the kindest thing to just put the dog to sleep. A dog that acts like that is usually anxious and unhappy. I applaud your parents for trying to do everything they can, and I can only try to reassure you that that is a highly unusual circumstance and the odds are virtually non-existent if the dog has been properly evaluated before adoption.
Also, as a shelter volunteer, I really appreciate you considering rescue as a possibility in getting your dog and for taking steps like looking at Petfinder, etc... I wish everyone took as much time and effort to try to educate themselves before they added a dog to their families.
JenniferB - with all due respect, there is no such thing as a well-bred "puggle." There are a multitude of pug-beagle crosses that are homeless on Petfinder.com and other websites. Additionally, the main reason there is no such thing as a reputable breeder of these dogs is because there is no guarantee about their looks, health, or temperament. The point of a dog breed is that if you breed properly you have extremely high odds of getting the temperament and looks associated with that breed as well as good health. However, "designer dogs" are a genetic odds game - for example, when breeding a pug and a beagle together, you could get a dog that is healthier than a pug or a beagle, or you could get one that has all the health problems of both breeds as well as the bad temperament issues of both breeds. The bad outcomes are the more likely ones in this scenario, because reputable breeders will not breed top-quality show dogs with other breeds - their mission is to improve their own breed and keep it healthy and true to the looks and temperament it is supposed to have and breeding to some other breed is not consistent with that. Therefore, the dogs that do get bred with dogs of other breeds are more likely to have had bad characteristics, either health-wise or temperamental or both which will then be passed to the puppies. Additionally, most "designer dog" mixes (puggles, maltipoos, etc...) are bred in puppy mills because no reputable breeder would create such crosses.
Puppy mills are horrible, dirty facilities where the dogs are kept in small cages with virtually no human interaction. The breeder dogs are used until they can no longer breed and then usually dumped on local shelters to be euthanized at public cost, or are euthanized by the puppy mills themselves, never having gotten to be part of a family or do most of the things dogs love to do. Many of the puppies are euthanized or dumped as well - if they don''t "look right" (remember its a genetic lottery, so each puppy will look different), or have health issues as puppies, even ones that are treatable. Even the ones that make it out to be sold tend to not be socialized well, and often have health issues later on. So basically, you are paying a lot of money for a mutt that could usually be found in a shelter, has unknown but probably bad odds for temperament and health issues, and supporting abusive conditions for the parents of the puppy you''ve purchased. Again, not trying to be harsh, but people really need to know the truth about these things so they can make informed decisions.
I''ve gone on for a while here so I''ll stop, but here are a couple of articles, since I recognize you have no particular reason to trust anything I''ve said here.
Humane Society Article on Designer Dogs
Information about Puppy Mills
Also, as a shelter volunteer, I really appreciate you considering rescue as a possibility in getting your dog and for taking steps like looking at Petfinder, etc... I wish everyone took as much time and effort to try to educate themselves before they added a dog to their families.
JenniferB - with all due respect, there is no such thing as a well-bred "puggle." There are a multitude of pug-beagle crosses that are homeless on Petfinder.com and other websites. Additionally, the main reason there is no such thing as a reputable breeder of these dogs is because there is no guarantee about their looks, health, or temperament. The point of a dog breed is that if you breed properly you have extremely high odds of getting the temperament and looks associated with that breed as well as good health. However, "designer dogs" are a genetic odds game - for example, when breeding a pug and a beagle together, you could get a dog that is healthier than a pug or a beagle, or you could get one that has all the health problems of both breeds as well as the bad temperament issues of both breeds. The bad outcomes are the more likely ones in this scenario, because reputable breeders will not breed top-quality show dogs with other breeds - their mission is to improve their own breed and keep it healthy and true to the looks and temperament it is supposed to have and breeding to some other breed is not consistent with that. Therefore, the dogs that do get bred with dogs of other breeds are more likely to have had bad characteristics, either health-wise or temperamental or both which will then be passed to the puppies. Additionally, most "designer dog" mixes (puggles, maltipoos, etc...) are bred in puppy mills because no reputable breeder would create such crosses.
Puppy mills are horrible, dirty facilities where the dogs are kept in small cages with virtually no human interaction. The breeder dogs are used until they can no longer breed and then usually dumped on local shelters to be euthanized at public cost, or are euthanized by the puppy mills themselves, never having gotten to be part of a family or do most of the things dogs love to do. Many of the puppies are euthanized or dumped as well - if they don''t "look right" (remember its a genetic lottery, so each puppy will look different), or have health issues as puppies, even ones that are treatable. Even the ones that make it out to be sold tend to not be socialized well, and often have health issues later on. So basically, you are paying a lot of money for a mutt that could usually be found in a shelter, has unknown but probably bad odds for temperament and health issues, and supporting abusive conditions for the parents of the puppy you''ve purchased. Again, not trying to be harsh, but people really need to know the truth about these things so they can make informed decisions.
I''ve gone on for a while here so I''ll stop, but here are a couple of articles, since I recognize you have no particular reason to trust anything I''ve said here.
Humane Society Article on Designer Dogs
Information about Puppy Mills
diamondfan
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My sister in law and a friends sister in law have them. They are supposed to be good with kids. My friends sister in law lives in a very large apartment in New York and the dog does well there. Her dog seems fine. My sister in law has one, hers in a home with three small kids, and from what I have heard, she is having issues with the dog biting people. I have not heard much more than that, but this is the third dog they have had that bites. Not sure if she means puppy nipping or real biting, but seems to me she is doing something wrong, I cannot imagine having issues three times. I think they are related to either bichons or malteses. Other than that I know very little about them.
Lynn B
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pricescope
Ideal_Rock
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AmberGretchen
Ideal_Rock
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DF - I think that with three dogs having behavioral problems under their care in such a short time you are probably right that its not the dogs, its them and most likely their improper training and treatment of the dogs. I''m sorry to hear they are having such difficulty and I hope for the sake of their children, their dog, and themselves that they invest in learning how to properly deal with and train these dogs to become good members of their family.
Thanks Lynn - I really do feel very strongly about all of this, but being an optimist I feel like I have to believe that most people wouldn''t make the kinds of choices they do (pet stores and backyard breeders) if they saw what animals had to suffer for those puppies to be available and if they fully understood both the risks and the implications of their actions. But I am glad that that''s what comes through and that no one thinks I''m attacking them because I''m really just trying to share information that I feel is essential to making good decisions about dog and cat owndership for the people and the animals involved.
Irina - when I saw your post I thought maybe I was in trouble for posting those article links, but I''m glad that those are OK within forum rules, because its such a great community and there are so many pet lovers here, and this information is so important for anyone who loves dogs and cats to have. So thanks for letting me share
Thanks Lynn - I really do feel very strongly about all of this, but being an optimist I feel like I have to believe that most people wouldn''t make the kinds of choices they do (pet stores and backyard breeders) if they saw what animals had to suffer for those puppies to be available and if they fully understood both the risks and the implications of their actions. But I am glad that that''s what comes through and that no one thinks I''m attacking them because I''m really just trying to share information that I feel is essential to making good decisions about dog and cat owndership for the people and the animals involved.
Irina - when I saw your post I thought maybe I was in trouble for posting those article links, but I''m glad that those are OK within forum rules, because its such a great community and there are so many pet lovers here, and this information is so important for anyone who loves dogs and cats to have. So thanks for letting me share
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Re: the puggle. I thought about that type of dog too, but my DH wasn''t a fan of the idea. Same with a labradoodle.
AG: thanks for all this helpful info you have posted! Just when I thought I had reached the end of the internet in terms of reading up on pets - these are great helpful links for anyone in our situation considering bringing a new pup into the family.
I think its great that you are a shelter volunteer and care so much about these animals
I''ll keep you guys posted on our search - and hopefully I will post pics as soon as we have our little fur baby.
AG: thanks for all this helpful info you have posted! Just when I thought I had reached the end of the internet in terms of reading up on pets - these are great helpful links for anyone in our situation considering bringing a new pup into the family.
I think its great that you are a shelter volunteer and care so much about these animals
I''ll keep you guys posted on our search - and hopefully I will post pics as soon as we have our little fur baby.
diamondfan
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I am not a huge fan of these cross breeds. Even an Australian labradoodle, which has been around 30 plus years, which is much better, still concerns me a bit. Ideally you get the best of both breeds, but that is not always the case. I love Westies, but have heard some negatives. Frankly, I have heard negatives about all breeds, you can get a bad dog in any breed, though certainly there are breeds that are better for overall temperament than others. My cousin is a vet, a trainer, a breeder and shows all over the country, and definitely is not a big fan of the cross breeds unless you have a very reputable breeder.
AmberGretchen
Ideal_Rock
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DF - you are totally correct that the Australian labradoodle is the exception to the rule here. They were bred for a specific purpose (to be guide dogs for the blind combining the intelligence of both breeds with the docility and focus of labradors and the less-allergenic coat of poodles), but they did cross after cross to get those specific characteristics and to ensure that those dogs would "breed true" meaning you can breed two Australian labradoodles and be sure you''re going to get a labradoodle with those same desirable characteristics and (theoretically) no surprises, except for very rare random genetic variations. They also bred out as many health issues as they could by not breeding dogs with bad hips or heart problems, etc...
You are also totally correct that all breeds can have behavioral issues. That''s why I said in my previous post that the most important thing is getting your dog fixed and training it properly (having a spayed/neutered dog will improve its behavior as well) - dogs that aren''t socialized or trained properly can be a huge problem, but proper training does an incredible amount to help avoid the behavioral problems that any dog can have.
Again, I just want to re-iterate this because it is so important - there is NO SUCH THING as a REPUTABLE BREEDER of so-called "designer dogs." Any reputable breeder is breeding to improve the breed or breeds that they work with, and would be horrified at breeding crosses, especially since there are millions of homeless mutts accross the country and throughout the world.
Rosebud - I''m glad the information has been helpful. There is a HUGE amount to be learned, on the internet and from books and classes, about dog behavior, training, etc...and I''m so glad you are taking the time to try to learn before getting a dog, and I''m sure you''ll continue learning once you have a dog. I also forgot to add before that if you and DH are thinking of having children, there are a lot of great resources on how to prepare a dog for a baby in the house - everything from playing baby noises to bringing in baby shampoo and clothes and so forth and letting the dog get used to the smell, that are supposed to make that transition a lot easier for the dog and the owners. I know that''s not an immediate concern, but something to keep in mind when the baby comes. Our shelter even offers a whole class on this to dog owners who are getting ready to have children.
You are also totally correct that all breeds can have behavioral issues. That''s why I said in my previous post that the most important thing is getting your dog fixed and training it properly (having a spayed/neutered dog will improve its behavior as well) - dogs that aren''t socialized or trained properly can be a huge problem, but proper training does an incredible amount to help avoid the behavioral problems that any dog can have.
Again, I just want to re-iterate this because it is so important - there is NO SUCH THING as a REPUTABLE BREEDER of so-called "designer dogs." Any reputable breeder is breeding to improve the breed or breeds that they work with, and would be horrified at breeding crosses, especially since there are millions of homeless mutts accross the country and throughout the world.
Rosebud - I''m glad the information has been helpful. There is a HUGE amount to be learned, on the internet and from books and classes, about dog behavior, training, etc...and I''m so glad you are taking the time to try to learn before getting a dog, and I''m sure you''ll continue learning once you have a dog. I also forgot to add before that if you and DH are thinking of having children, there are a lot of great resources on how to prepare a dog for a baby in the house - everything from playing baby noises to bringing in baby shampoo and clothes and so forth and letting the dog get used to the smell, that are supposed to make that transition a lot easier for the dog and the owners. I know that''s not an immediate concern, but something to keep in mind when the baby comes. Our shelter even offers a whole class on this to dog owners who are getting ready to have children.
diamondfan
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Rose, do you have kids now and are planning to bring a pup into the home or vice versa? If you plan on getting a puppy and then having a baby later, there are so many ways to help the pup get used to the changes, like Amber mentioned, and they help a lot, including walking around with a doll, and having a tape of baby sounds etc, so it is not such a jolting transition for the dog, who become used to be the focus. If you have kids and bring in a pup it is sometimes easier.
I totally had awesome mutts, Heinz 57 types growing up and think it is wonderful to go the pound, but this does not work in all circumstances. Sometimes if you want an older, trained dog you can do a breed rescue and that works well. But as the owner of a pure bred, which I had spayed, a dog given to me by a family member who had bred these dogs for nearly 20 years and is very careful and conscientious, I will say I do not 100% rule out buying a pure bred. Pound dogs and breed rescue simply does not fit the bill for all people wanting a dog all of the time, for a variety of reasons. I would never buy from a mall pet store and I would do my homework if I were interested in a pure bred, to make sure I was not buying from a puppy mill. I also knew I was spaying her as soon as I got my dog, I never was intending to show or breed her, she was to be a family pet from the get go. Whatever you choose, I think the basics are do your homework as to what breeds are best with kids overall, knowing that any dog can have issues in specific cases, just like any person can have temperament issues. Also take into account your lifestyle, apartment or home, yard, ability to give a dog exercise etc, those are things to consider. I doubt a Havanese needs tons of exercise but I am not too sure. Do not get a dog from a mall or puppy mill if you do decide to go with a pure breed. And while a puppy would be good if you already have kids, they are a lot of work, so you might consider a well trained older dog who needs a home, sometimes that can be a wonderful option too!
I totally had awesome mutts, Heinz 57 types growing up and think it is wonderful to go the pound, but this does not work in all circumstances. Sometimes if you want an older, trained dog you can do a breed rescue and that works well. But as the owner of a pure bred, which I had spayed, a dog given to me by a family member who had bred these dogs for nearly 20 years and is very careful and conscientious, I will say I do not 100% rule out buying a pure bred. Pound dogs and breed rescue simply does not fit the bill for all people wanting a dog all of the time, for a variety of reasons. I would never buy from a mall pet store and I would do my homework if I were interested in a pure bred, to make sure I was not buying from a puppy mill. I also knew I was spaying her as soon as I got my dog, I never was intending to show or breed her, she was to be a family pet from the get go. Whatever you choose, I think the basics are do your homework as to what breeds are best with kids overall, knowing that any dog can have issues in specific cases, just like any person can have temperament issues. Also take into account your lifestyle, apartment or home, yard, ability to give a dog exercise etc, those are things to consider. I doubt a Havanese needs tons of exercise but I am not too sure. Do not get a dog from a mall or puppy mill if you do decide to go with a pure breed. And while a puppy would be good if you already have kids, they are a lot of work, so you might consider a well trained older dog who needs a home, sometimes that can be a wonderful option too!
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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No we don''t have any kids right now. We''ll probably try for that in a 1-2 years. I had heard that there are ways to introduce the dog to baby things, but that is great to know that there are classes and books out there on this exact thing. I''m not too worried about it, although my family keeps telling me that it will be hard work, etc. and I know what goes into it, as we''ve had a number of puppies growing up that we had to take care of. I think they keep mentioning how much work it will be (with a puppy) because I think they want grandchildren
I''ve been in contact with a lady who does breed the havanese in her home and posted pics of their living conditions, etc. on their website, so we''re in the process of reviewing that vs. other options. Hopefully we can find one sooner than later
I''ve been in contact with a lady who does breed the havanese in her home and posted pics of their living conditions, etc. on their website, so we''re in the process of reviewing that vs. other options. Hopefully we can find one sooner than later
Rosebud, good luck with your puppy search!!!
When you have a baby, bring home a receiving blanket from the hospital,or the teashirt that the baby used to sleep for the night. You give the blanket to the dog to sniff and lay with and it helps tremendously. When you come come give the dog another one from the baby to sleep with and of course the scent of the baby is no longer a new threat.....
Works great!!!!!
When you have a baby, bring home a receiving blanket from the hospital,or the teashirt that the baby used to sleep for the night. You give the blanket to the dog to sniff and lay with and it helps tremendously. When you come come give the dog another one from the baby to sleep with and of course the scent of the baby is no longer a new threat.....
Works great!!!!!
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Mandarine
Ideal_Rock
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Having said that, I have a pure breed mini schnauzer and ADORE him! He is the best and I would recommend this breed to anyone looking for a loving, non-shedding, smart, huggable dog!..hehe...the bad side: they can tend to be barkers (not mine though unless it is called for), if they''re not raised with children around tehy may not really like children (having this problem with mine!), since they''re non-shedding, you have to be on top of the grooming.
Two of our friends have Havanese and they''re both great!....Completely different from each other though!. One is very dependant, doesn''t like to be left alone (she vomits and get sicks when she''s alone) and has had a hard time with potty training....she''s still loving and fun. The other one is so funny, she''s upbeat, more independent, loving but has had a hard time getting basic training concepts down (sit, down, stay, etc).
I think with all dogs, owners play a big part in their personality. I suggest doing a lot of reading on training, on the breed, etc.
This is so exciting!! I hope you find a great puppy/dog to complete your family!!!
M~
Mandarine
Ideal_Rock
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Mandarine
Ideal_Rock
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njc
Brilliant_Rock
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Yup, thats her in the avatar. We had a hard time finding mini''s too.
If you havent already looked, the American Kennel Club site is good for breed and other information that may help you out with deciding. There is a "future dog owner" link that maybe helpful. Also I found the Havanese Club site that lists info about puppies and rescues among other things.
Just keep asking around!
If you havent already looked, the American Kennel Club site is good for breed and other information that may help you out with deciding. There is a "future dog owner" link that maybe helpful. Also I found the Havanese Club site that lists info about puppies and rescues among other things.
Just keep asking around!
Rosebud8506
Brilliant_Rock
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Mandarine, your friends'' pups are cute!! Look at how they love each other! awwwwww!!
The baby we''re looking at is white/tannish colored. I hear the coat needs to be brushed 3-4 times a week, but that is not a problem! I also have read up on their separation anxiety- I hope its not too big of an issue. I am unemployed, so hopefully the little guy won''t be too stressed out. Your friends'' dog, poor thing, vomitting? Oh no...
The baby we''re looking at is white/tannish colored. I hear the coat needs to be brushed 3-4 times a week, but that is not a problem! I also have read up on their separation anxiety- I hope its not too big of an issue. I am unemployed, so hopefully the little guy won''t be too stressed out. Your friends'' dog, poor thing, vomitting? Oh no...
Mandarine
Ideal_Rock
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The one with the separation anxiety is the "blonde" one in the pictures, she's such a hottie! has long legs and she knows she is CUTE! hehe...The otehr one is so playful, as you can see in that picture she had a toy in her mouth! haha
And to not leave out my little one, here is a cute picture of him in bed! (taken about 1.5 yrs ago)...hehe, he's very spoiled
ETA: The black one didn't have a toy in her mouth! that was her little swimming jacket! hehe
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