Opinion

[kbin]

Hello!
Would appreciate your opinion here: How would you rank the four options below? We’re wondering if they are all similar performing and if so should we make a decision based on clarity and color alone? Thank you so much!

Diamond | 1.72 ct E VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4625288

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.72 carat E color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4625288

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.82 ct F VVS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4613137

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.82 carat F color VVS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4613137

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.80 ct E VVS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4605296

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.80 carat E color VVS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4605296

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.84 ct F VVS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4605299

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.84 carat F color VVS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4605299

www.whiteflash.com

 

[MissGotRocks]

They are all beautiful! What a nice selection to choose from for you. I would ask Whiteflash to put the four of them in a video for you to see. You would be able to see if one spoke to you more than another. Beyond that, you might just look at price. Some are less than others; presumably as they were bought at different times and different prices. Personally, I think I would choose the 1.80 E VVS2 - great specs and price. This is one of those situations though where you would be hard pressed to choose wrong! Please keep us posted - would love to know what you chose!

 

[MamaBear]

Why such high clarity? You could easily go down and get a bigger stone. Just an example, it is a G, will face up beautifully white.

Diamond | 2.03 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4744335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.03 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4744335

www.whiteflash.com

 

[tyty333]

I would knock the 1.72 E out of the options to help narrow it down. It's not any bigger and the price is the same. I dont
see that it's buying you anything over the other 3.

A couple of options you could go with...

I would probably ask for pictures of the 1.8 E and the 1.82 F together. If you can't tell any difference, go with the F.

Or

Ask your SA to look at the 4 stones and see if anyone "speaks" to them. They are very well trained at looking for nuances
in Super Ideal stones.

Good luck! You cant make a bad decision!

 

[sledge]

This view will be easier to compare. Use a computer or tablet and not your phone so you can see them next to each other.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4605296,4613137,4625288,4605299

Great for looking at specs but I also like to look at images this way too. Some nuances will be GIA reports LGF’s to the nearest 5% so they will typically be 75% or 80%. The issue being an average 77% gets classified as 75% and a 78% gets classified as 80%. In reality, there will be very small variation between 77 &78 but more noticeable between 75 & 80. When comparing images in this view, you can look at the idealscope or ASET images and see thickness of arrows, although table sizes has some effect on the visuals. For instance a 54 table with 77 LGF’s will look thicker than a 55 table with 77 LGF’s. The heart scope will provide a better indication. The tighter the gap that forms the V the smaller the LGF’s. So if you see those gaps are nearly the same but one report reads 75 and the other 80 then it may indeed be a 77 & 78 scenario. Other variations will present themselves.

Finally I like to watch the videos of all the stones side by side. WF has an extremely controlled photo & video setup. You can often see how one stone may have slightly more/broader fire than other stones. All beautiful and H&A but a way to wade through the nuances. With videos, I sometimes increase web page magnification high and use multiple web windows to do a side by side. Often I will manually spin the diamonds to see how large the fire flashes are.

 

[sledge]

My phone was dying last night and I didn’t have time to pull up this reference about the LGF’s and visually how small factors can influence looks/contrast.

Karl provided some great info before my post as well.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-are-your-dream-proportions.254949/post-4685825

 

[kbin]

Wow! All of you are so wonderful! Taking the time to answer my question. I wasn’t expecting a response, but thank you for sharing!

I have a video and was wondering if I could share on this forum? I’m new here and I’m not sure of the rules.

 

[tyty333]

Yes, you can share @kbin . We love to look at videos. You'll have to put it on a hosting site (youtube or somewhere) and
then provide the link.

 

[autumngems]

For your price point, what about this? It gets you 2ct range and priced at what the E was. You will not see any inclusions withy our eyes and it's and F

Diamond | 2.02 ct F VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4779165

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.02 carat F color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4779165

www.whiteflash.com

 

[kbin]

Here is a video, ordered by size

 

[kbin]

For your price point, what about this? It gets you 2ct range and priced at what the E was. You will not see any inclusions withy our eyes and it's and F

Diamond | 2.02 ct F VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4779165

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.02 carat F color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4779165

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you! I will look it up.

 

[sledge]

Did you ask for and get any still photos so you can compare color? Something similar to below.

As you may or may not know, color is graded through the pavilion with the diamond face down, similar to the 2nd picture. It’s harder to detect subtle color variance in the face up view (1st pic), especially on super ideal cuts like WF ACA’s that are cut right to produce amazing light return.

 

[tyty333]

Unfortunately, the video is very short and so far away that I can't tell much difference between them (as in, they are all beautiful).

I can see that the one on the left looks ever so slightly smaller than the other 3. It does go smallest to biggest, left to right, correct?

I would ask for some up-close pics/video of the 2.02 F/Vs2. If its eye clean (which it should be), then it's a no-brainer for
me.

 

[kbin]

Here is a picture of the 4 arranged in order of size.

 

[kbin]

Here is a picture of the 4 arranged in order of size.

Would love your thoughts !

 

[MissGotRocks]

I see that the 1.84 is on reserve - is that for you?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Here is a picture of the 4 arranged in order of size.

You will not be able to tell these apart in person. I’d go for the least expensive lol

(Well I’d actually go lower in color and clarity and go bigger lol)

 

[tyty333]

It's almost easier when WF has fewer options that fit your specs (which makes it easier to decide)!

I agree with @diamond_d...
I'd go with the least expensive or that 2.02 F/VS2 that @autumngems linked.

Here is the thing about ACAs

- It is very difficult to tell close color differences from the top (due to their cut and how much light they return). I've
compared an H ACA and a K ACA, and in some lighting I could not tell the color difference (from the top)...it was very obvious in
other lighting, but when you are in the Colorless range (D-F)...it won't be easy unless you are studying them
side-by-side in the right lighting.
- The cutting parameters are so tight that it's difficult to see any difference in sparkle/brilliance between stones.
That's why I think it's important that you ask your SA for their opinion since they have the stones in front of them
side-by-side. They have seen/evaluated/analyzed so many stones that they can pick out minute nuances that
most of us won't notice.

So, for us mere mortals , we have to find other ways to "pick" a stone.
- What is "mind-clean" and important to you? Higher color? Higher clarity? Bigger size? Lower Cost? There has got to
be something that makes your brain feel happier and more relaxed with a choice. Figure this out, and it will narrow down
your choices.
- Use the input/advice from your SA. Enough said on that subject.

- All else fails, flip a coin!

Good luck @kbin !

I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide!

 

[sledge]

I should have some time later tonight or tomorrow to take a closer look and will respond back with some feedback.

But generally speaking, none are “bad” choices. It’s just a matter of narrowing down the one that speaks the most to you.

What do you value most? Rank 1-4 for most to least important.

> Size?
> Color?
> Fire?
> Clarity? Rather actual or “mind clean”.

 

[kbin]

I should have some time later tonight or tomorrow to take a closer look and will respond back with some feedback.

But generally speaking, none are “bad” choices. It’s just a matter of narrowing down the one that speaks the most to you.

What do you value most? Rank 1-4 for most to least important.

> Size?
> Color?
> Fire?
> Clarity? Rather actual or “mind clean”.

Thank you!
I’d say:
-Fire
-Color/clarity
-Size

 

[sledge]

Getting back to this later than planned. Really tough choice, as you have some great options. I did include the 2.02 F/VS2 in my analysis.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4605296,4613137,4625288,4605299,4779165

Before we dive in, I think it's important for everyone to understand what it takes for a stone to receive the ACA branding. Below is a link. But I also thought it prudent to mention some things related to clarity as that seems to be a major concern of the OP.

A CUT ABOVE® Diamonds Specifications and Qualifications

Uncover the diamond specifications and qualifications that make up the Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® diamonds. The most carefully crafted diamonds in the world.

www.whiteflash.com

1. ACA stones are vetted for structural integrity. Stones with feathers, or other inclusions, are evaluated to ensure they don't pose risk during mount or normal wear.

2. ACA stones are vetted for clarity issues. Inclusion types, location, size, density, etc are evaluated to ensure they don't make the stone sleepy or less crisp.

3. ACA stones are vetted for defects that can be controlled by the cutting process such as chips or scratches. Also a stone with extra facets which is normally a tell-tale sign a stone has been cheated to fix such a defect.

All that said, below are some screen shots of my spreadsheet notes. As expected all the proportions fall into what we normally recommend. All the ASET, IS and heart imaging was good and no issues of concern. I saw no major concerns with inclusion types, locations, etc. Some of my comments like "rips in heart clefts" have to be taken with a grain of salt. To meet H&A criteria, an 8% rip is allowed. I didn't measure them but assume all meet that 8% or less threshold -- just if I saw any rip I noted it. Another was a tiny sliver of green in the ASET, which technically means less light return but not in a meaningful manner IMO (this stone was my #1 choice BTW). These are the types of nuances we compare when you have 5 spectacular stones.

I might note that I dislike the rounding aspect of GIA stones. We got a better picture with simple averaging of AGS values but that is a yesteryear issue. If you want to get more particular you could request a detailed SARIN report and look at individual proportion values.

I did take a stab at trying to assign some numerical values to what I thought actual LGF values may be simply based on visuals shown in the heart images. We had 4 stones reported as 75 and 1 as 80 but looking at the hearts image I think they are between 76-78.

In the end, I thought the 2.02 F/VS2 was the best of the group. I relied heavily on the fire videos on the WF website. That stone just pops and is more lively than the others although there are some close contenders. Also I liked the hearts image the best on that stone. While it has the least clarity I see no issues with it being eye clean and I think it's packs a great bang for the buck.

 

[kbin]

Thank you so much for taking the time out to share your thoughts with me. Interestingly, it feels like you’ve read my mind by touching upon the concerns I’ve had so far.

 

[sledge]

Thank you so much for taking the time out to share your thoughts with me. Interestingly, it feels like you’ve read my mind by touching upon the concerns I’ve had so far.

I’m glad this was helpful, and we were able to alleviate some of your concerns.

Let us know if you have any other questions or concerns. And after you make a decision, please post back and let us know what you chose!

FYI, I highly recommend you go reserve your top 3 contenders if you decide to maul it over longer. I don’t want to see a lurker poach “your stone” from under you.

 

[kbin]

I’m glad this was helpful, and we were able to alleviate some of your concerns.

Let us know if you have any other questions or concerns. And after you make a decision, please post back and let us know what you chose!

FYI, I highly recommend you go reserve your top 3 contenders if you decide to maul it over longer. I don’t want to see a lurker poach “your stone” from under you.

I’ve been wondering, why is the 1.72 more expensive than the 1.84 if they are both similar in terms of light performance? Yes, it has a higher color grade, but it’s also the smaller of the two.

 

[sledge]

I’ve been wondering, why is the 1.72 more expensive than the 1.84 if they are both similar in terms of light performance? Yes, it has a higher color grade, but it’s also the smaller of the two.

Price is determined by a combination of factors. With these 2 stones the 1.72 is getting price increase due to 2 factors:

1. Better color, E > F
2. Better clarity, VVS1 > VVS2

The 1.84 is likely getting 1 price increase due to 1 factor:

1. More carat weight, 1.84 > 1.72

In addition to pure mathematical difference of 0.12 carats more weight, the 1.84 stone is probably getting a slight $/carat increase due to also hitting a “mid-level magic carat mark” of 1.80+ carats.

Another factor that may be at play for both stones is what price the vendor paid for the rough at auction. Could be related to time, or multiple bidders that day wanting the same rough and driving up price slightly. Perhaps a little more wheel time for stone A vs stone B. These are variables less easy to know & track for Joe Consumer.

So, there are multiple variables at play. Not just light performance that drive price.

If you want to dive deeper into this, I suggest you start reading here and it will confirm many of things already stated, and more.

For instance, magic weights can affect pricing and why some seek a 0.99 or 1.99 carat stone. Most people recognize the major ones, 1 carat vs 2 carat for example but they are occurring at smaller increments as well. For instance in the 1-2 carat range one occurs at 1.50 and 1.80. By that alone if the 1.72 and 1.84 were identical color & clarity then the 1.84 should trade for more $/carat than the 1.72. In reality, it’s not that simple. We have different color, clarity and mid-level carat weight premiums to factor in.

Diamond Prices Guide: Get and Compare Prices

Willing to buy a better value diamond for less? We give you a complete picture of how to arrive at a diamond price.

www.pricescope.com

 

[TXwidow]

higher color, higher clarity and SMALLEST stone (diameter)

 

[chamois]

Why such high clarity? You could easily go down and get a bigger stone. Just an example, it is a G, will face up beautifully white.

Diamond | 2.03 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4744335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.03 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4744335

www.whiteflash.com

Why such high clarity? You could easily go down and get a bigger stone. Just an example, it is a G, will face up beautifully white.

Diamond | 2.03 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4744335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.03 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4744335

www.whiteflash.com

Why such high clarity? You could easily go down and get a bigger stone. Just an example, it is a G, will face up beautifully white.

Diamond | 2.03 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4744335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.03 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4744335

www.whiteflash.com

This stone has fantastic fire. I love the small table too.

 

[kbin]

Price is determined by a combination of factors. With these 2 stones the 1.72 is getting price increase due to 2 factors:

1. Better color, E > F
2. Better clarity, VVS1 > VVS2

The 1.84 is likely getting 1 price increase due to 1 factor:

1. More carat weight, 1.84 > 1.72

In addition to pure mathematical difference of 0.12 carats more weight, the 1.84 stone is probably getting a slight $/carat increase due to also hitting a “mid-level magic carat mark” of 1.80+ carats.

Another factor that may be at play for both stones is what price the vendor paid for the rough at auction. Could be related to time, or multiple bidders that day wanting the same rough and driving up price slightly. Perhaps a little more wheel time for stone A vs stone B. These are variables less easy to know & track for Joe Consumer.

So, there are multiple variables at play. Not just light performance that drive price.

If you want to dive deeper into this, I suggest you start reading here and it will confirm many of things already stated, and more.

For instance, magic weights can affect pricing and why some seek a 0.99 or 1.99 carat stone. Most people recognize the major ones, 1 carat vs 2 carat for example but they are occurring at smaller increments as well. For instance in the 1-2 carat range one occurs at 1.50 and 1.80. By that alone if the 1.72 and 1.84 were identical color & clarity then the 1.84 should trade for more $/carat than the 1.72. In reality, it’s not that simple. We have different color, clarity and mid-level carat weight premiums to factor in.

Diamond Prices Guide: Get and Compare Prices

Willing to buy a better value diamond for less? We give you a complete picture of how to arrive at a diamond price.

www.pricescope.com

@sledge, the 1.84 is a vvs1, similar to the 1.72. From the chart you created, both 1.72 and 1.84 look very similar, but looks like you preferred the 1.72 over the 1.84 — was there a reason for that?

 

[sledge]

@sledge, the 1.84 is a vvs1, similar to the 1.72. From the chart you created, both 1.72 and 1.84 look very similar, but looks like you preferred the 1.72 over the 1.84 — was there a reason for that?

Good catch. I inverted the clarity for the 1.82 and 1.84 stones in my last response.

Every one of these stones are very similar. You could line them all up and pick one blind folded and be very happy with any of them. True “easy button” solutions. Is there some minor nuance from stone to stone? Sure. Is it meaningful to most people? Not really.

Why I preferred the 1.72 over the 1.84? Minor nuances. Slight preference of the heart image. Prefer E to F color if all else is equal. Although high clarity and a non-structural issue I also preferred the fact it didn’t have a feather — more of a mind clean issue. Money was similar, size is similar & non-meaningful to the naked eye and fire videos were both strong.

FYI, my wife’s stone is an H/VS2. The grade setting inclusion is a feather. I point this out to confirm my confidence in both the 1.72 and 1.84 stones which both have color & clarity superiority to my own purchase decision. Again, it boils down to nuances.

 

[kbin]

Good catch. I inverted the clarity for the 1.82 and 1.84 stones in my last response.

Every one of these stones are very similar. You could line them all up and pick one blind folded and be very happy with any of them. True “easy button” solutions. Is there some minor nuance from stone to stone? Sure. Is it meaningful to most people? Not really.

Why I preferred the 1.72 over the 1.84? Minor nuances. Slight preference of the heart image. Prefer E to F color if all else is equal. Although high clarity and a non-structural issue I also preferred the fact it didn’t have a feather — more of a mind clean issue. Money was similar, size is similar & non-meaningful to the naked eye and fire videos were both strong.

FYI, my wife’s stone is an H/VS2. The grade setting inclusion is a feather. I point this out to confirm my confidence in both the 1.72 and 1.84 stones which both have color & clarity superiority to my own purchase decision. Again, it boils down to nuances.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! They have given me a lot of clarity.