Opinion on this antique E ring

[kp862000]

My gf loves antique jewelry and I've been shopping around online for antique rings. I had my eye on this setting after a few weeks of scouring all the recommended sites

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes&sppp=12&page=1&Keyword=l1140&category=ALL&highprice=0&lowprice=0&allwords=l1140&exact=&atleast=&without=&cprice=&searchfields=

I was completely set on purchasing it and a loose diamond from oldworlddiamonds.com when I set out to the local jewelers to see if I could actually get my eyes on old mine cut and old european cut diamonds first. I live in Arkansas, so travelling to NYC is pretty tough. The first store I went into I sat down and the jeweler brought the attached ring out first. I couldn't believe it. Circa 1920's. They have it marked as a 1ct H VS2 diamond in platinum with .20ct G-H in the setting. The asking price is $4800. The ring is a size 7.5 and would have to be resized to a 6. What are your thoughts? Good price? Should I be worried about anything? I then went on to look all around town and didn't see anything close.

 

[RandG]

It looks lovely and the price is very attractive! Any chance of some better pictures? Does the vendor have a GIA certificate which may offer some insight into the quality of the diamond?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Need a closer pic of the actual diamond. The setting looks good.

High color in old cut stone is rare - who graded the stone H?

 

[kp862000]

I'll attempt to get a few closer pictures. The ring was graded H by an in-house CGA. There is no lab certification on the diamond.

 

[RandG]

Although the price is attractive, making this a compelling buy, there is always an inherent conflict of interest anytime you buy a diamond from a vendor without a reputable (GIA) and independent 3rd party lab report.

From the profile view, the stone shows some warmth, beyond an H color. The warmth doesn't bother me at all but it would prompt me to dig deeper into the true specs of the stone.

If you love this ring, and feel its "the one", I would ask the vendor to send the stone to GIA NY for grading (which will take 8 weeks, give or take a couple weeks). Should it grade on point, you got a good deal. If it doesn't, you have full transparency, and can possibly negotiate some price concession or decide to take it, as is.

 

[SB621]

Sorry everything i do is double posting today

 

[SB621]

I'll attempt to get a few closer pictures. The ring was graded H by an in-house CGA. There is no lab certification on the diamond.

Without trying to sound rude that doesn't mean anything. If you purchase this then make the sale contingent upon a GIA or AGS lab report. If it is an H then price is good. Though I too would want close up shots to see. With old cuts you can't go off numbers you really need close up to see the facet pattern etc.

 

[LightBright]

A couple things come to mind. I personally think $4800 for an antique platinum setting with pave diamonds which looks very pretty to me, plus an antique diamond around one carat, is a fair price, even if the diamond is a lower color than an H.

I think the main issue here is how to tell the quality of the diamond when it doesn't have a grading report. A diamond for an engagement ring, in my opinion should be as white as your intended wants it to be and should be high enough clarity that no inclusions are visible to the naked eye. It should also have a nice cut. Old cuts are not the same as modern cuts, and the ideas posted on Pricescope about assessing modern cuts don't apply to old cuts.

It is rare for old cuts to be H color, most of them are actually far lower in color, but smaller sizes like one carat are more likely to be whiter so it is possible. For that price, however, it's more likely to be lower color (or smaller than 1 carat) because the jeweler could recut an H color Old Cut stone and resell it for more money.

A certificate from GIA might cost you $200 and take quite a bit of time, however, it would be the safest way to buy this diamond. I think a GIA certificate would be important mostly if your intended definitely wants a very white stone. But if the stone is not graded to your liking and you walk away, you'd likely have to pay for the grading report.

I would suggest a couple things. First, what was your impression of the diamond? Did you have a gut feeling about it? If you just love it, then I would take a zoom lens camera back to the store and get a couple top down shots and at least one side view shot and post them on Pricescope. A side view (profile) will allow people to gauge tint-- Diamonds are more tinted from the side. A top down view will allow people to see faceting, for old stones it is all over the map. Faceting makes a huge difference in the value of an old cut stone. So, if you don't want to do a certificate, you could get some opinions from Pricescopers about tint, faceting and clarity.

The other suggestion I have is to take the diamond to an independent appraiser in your area, or ask them to come with you to the store to assess color, carat weight and clarity. If there is no independent appraiser, you could also ask the jeweler who appraised it to talk to you about the diamond, share thir loupe so you can see the inclusions, and let you compare the supposed "H" color using a GIA certified diamond or two, for comparison. (Remember to look at a side view for color assessment.) I might also bring another person with you, like your intended's friend or sister, so you can gauge the reaction to this particular setting and stone. You definitely want to avoid buying a stone that is too tinted for your intended's taste, so that might be a question you ask them: if visually this stone looks too tinted.

I think if you do these things you will be far more educated about your purchase than you are now. Good luck!

 

[kp862000]

here are some better pictures. the diamond came from a reputable locally AGS certified jeweler. I'm awaiting their appraisal.

 

[maccers]

We'll see what others impressions are but that stone looks warmer than H. You may want to get an independent appraisal (at the very least) or a lab cert.

How's the sparkle factor on the stone? Does it have any dead/dark facets?

That setting is very beautiful however, due to its age, the milgrain detail has worn down quite a bit. The repro from Leigh Jay Nacht is gorgeous. Have you looked at High Performance Diamonds? http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=store-product-detail&id=125

This setting is similar:

 

[kp862000]

I think that the sparkle factor is excellent and the ring certainly shines whiter than the pictures show outdoors. I tried to take video but the quality is a little jumpy and never does it justice. Click the link below.

https://vimeo.com/104055892

Thanks for the help. Its at an independent appraiser now.

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, the stone and setting look lovely! Can't wait to hear back from the appraiser regarding color. It's not ez judging color in a set stone, but they can make an educated guess. Don't be surprised if it comes back a lower color than you thought. Doesn't mean it's not a great looking diamond, though! But maybe more in line with the price.

 

[LightBright]

The setting is gorgeous; I don't mind the wear-- you simply cannot get this kind of craftsmanship for any price in a modern setting. The diamond, I'm not sure about. There are better judges of faceting on this board. I liked the faceting in the still shots, I love the high crown, but the video threw me as I did not see much fire. I would make sure the diamond performs well cut wise. Experienced eyes here might be able to tell you more definitively. The color is definitely not an H, likely lower than a J. That still would not bother me if the cut were good and the diamond performs well. But from the video, I could not tell. Maybe do a shout out on the PS Antique section for more opinions, or bump this for more opinions?

 

[arkieb1]

I can't tell jack from the video because it is not in focus and the lighting or shadows where you are is making everything look dark. I'd be interested to know if the centre area looks dark in person or if it is picking up and reflecting back a dark coloured camera or Iphone or something, if it is dark in that centre area most of the time then I would give it a miss. Otherwise the crown height looks nice, in the pics the small table look O.K I can see chips or abrasions on the girdle in your side on pic and there is no way in hades that is a H colour. I'd say closer to a K if we are using GIA.

 

[kp862000]

Came back from the appraiser today. He graded it an I-J VS1 due to the chips with measurements 6.61x3.99mm. The color is in line with what member of this forum have posted. The appraiser also estimated the weight as 1.07 carats plus estimated the 30 round cuts in the setting to total 0.52 carats with a replacement value of $6800. I made the purchase and also love the setting. Thanks for all the feedback.

I apologize for the poor video quality. I tried to get it with a macro lens attached but blocked the light getting the camera so close. Additionally vimeo formatted it since the resolution was quite low. I shot a new video from those lessons learned. See below

https://vimeo.com/104188589

Ken

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can't really see the details well, but from what I can see, it is a beautiful ring. I think it is okay at $4800, but I hope you offered them less than that, since estate pieces are almost always negotiable. The only other thing I would have advised you would be not to buy without a return policy in case she doesn't love the ring for some reason. I do not think the color is I color and I would also question J. But still, even at K or L it is worth buying if the condition is good enough.