opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics inside

[periphery]

hello,

following my previous topic, i went on to look at some other diamond jewellers in the area (my so believes strongly in buying from B&M only unfortunately) and here is one of the better ones i saw.

0.87 carat, 'super-ideal' cut, G color, VVS2 ( i wanted vs1 but they did not have any in the size range i wanted)
quoted $7500 with a simple solitaire setting

i have the following concerns:

1. the aset scope one looks very messy with red/green/blue not clearly demarcated in the middle portion. especially near the arrows, making the arrows look distorted.

2. aset scope also does not have the clear white areas and patterning that you can see on all the other ideal round brilliant diamonds

3. the same asymmetry can be seen in the ideal scope

4. a lot of white areas near the perimeter on the hearts image. most if not all the hearts images i see are all red/black at the outer border.

i would really appreciate any comments as I am a unsure about how good this diamond really is.

sorry pics are now attached:

 

[treasurehunter]

Re: opinions on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond pics

33 crown angle with a pavilion angle of 40.8
is not ideal

Yea its hearts and arrows but so what
a perfect pattern has very little to do with light return

 

[KobiD]

Re: opinions on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond pics

33 crown angle with a pavilion angle of 40.8
is not ideal

Yea its hearts and arrows but so what
a perfect pattern has very little to do with light return

What do you see in the images that indicate a problem with the light return? ASET and IS look about as good as any other. Sure its not a 34.5/40.7 stone, but the proportions are far from bad.

 

[periphery]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

hi,

this diamond was sold to me as an ideal cut - the vendor told me this is the best in the market for a 57 facet round brilliant. thus, there should be no reason why any of the angles are less than ideal. i feel the images also do not have the typical symmetrical appearance of a 57 facet round brilliant, which is what led me to post here on pricescope.

i would be very interested to hear all opinions, thank you ladies and/or gentlemen!

 

[periphery]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

hi, thanks for your comments. could you elaborate more on the Depth to width ratio and how you calculated it?

Also regarding the crown/pavilion angles, if anyone can tell me more about it it would be great. from what i have searched, it seems like the crown angle of 33 degrees is generally considered too low, with the ideal range within 34-45 degrees. however some people have also said it is more important that the combination of the other angles are taken into account.

I have atttached a photo of another diamond's aset scope to give everyone an idea of what I am talking about with the symmetry. in this you can see the white 'flower' circular pattern that is 'incomplete' or 'broken' in mine.
My question is if the absence of this pattern affects the light performance?





If this diamond is not able to give me the best light performance, then I will convince my SO to buy one from one of the pricescope vendors like whiteflash, goodoldgold or BGD, all of whom seem to be very highly regarded in these forums. I really want to have the peace of mind, when I look down at my engagement ring, to know that it is in the best of its class, as I am a chronic worrywart and any doubts will haunt me through my life!

 

[John P]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

i have the following concerns:

1. the aset scope one looks very messy with red/green/blue not clearly demarcated in the middle portion. especially near the arrows, making the arrows look distorted.

2. aset scope also does not have the clear white areas and patterning that you can see on all the other ideal round brilliant diamonds

3. the same asymmetry can be seen in the ideal scope

4. a lot of white areas near the perimeter on the hearts image. most if not all the hearts images i see are all red/black at the outer border.

These are strong images. The 'demarcation' in the crown-up images could be photography, with the diamond slightly tilted, or even the lens of the camera not quite level with the plane of the table. Diamond photos are extremely hard to make, and those taken in structured light environments are subject to dozens of slight aberrations. The images are very magnified and you're asking about details which may or may not be photo-related. To answer at the level of your questions it would take live viewing in those scopes to, just as clarity must be decisively judged with a loupe or microscope.

No worries about the hearts image. More white at the perimeter is a natural by-product of this angular combination, specifically the 33 degree crown angle, which is a bit outside the Tolkowsky ideal proportions of most 'superideals.' For the record that also makes it a predicted AGS1 in light performance (if that matters, which it may not). However the actual AGS LP score would depend on uncloaking the report's averaging/rounding and seeing how all 57 facets work together in their ray-tracing metric. In typical cases optical precision as we see it here will help the final score.

Here are computer generated sims of hearts at this diamond's mm measurements and proportions. And the same, but with a 34.5 degree crown angle. As you can see, the hearts image is correct for the geometry of this diamond.

6.11-6.14x3.77 55 616 408 330 50 80 STK left
6.11-6.14x3.77 55 616 408 34.5 50 80 STK right

For those interested, the hearts photos allow us to peek inside GIA's rounding. The actual lower half average for this diamond is 78%.- (the blue in the leftmost image is simply a software rendering by-product of the 6.11-6.14 mm measurements).

i would really appreciate any comments as I am a unsure about how good this diamond really is.

In terms of performance it's within the zenith of both GIA EX and AGS 0-1.

In terms of precision, no diamond in nature is a physically perfect specimen (even in terms of roundness). Preserving optical precision requires the polisher to make constant adjustments which preserve the 3D alignment of the mirrors, side to side. It's extremely well cut and, based on the images, would pass as Hearts & Arrows in most systems which judge it traditionally. That's speculation without actually seeing it of course, but with a high level of confidence.

 

[John P]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

Also regarding the crown/pavilion angles, if anyone can tell me more about it it would be great. from what i have searched, it seems like the crown angle of 33 degrees is generally considered too low, with the ideal range within 34-45 degrees. however some people have also said it is more important that the combination of the other angles are taken into account.

The 55% table preserves some crown height at 14.5%.- And the optical precision will help with dispersion. But the crown is slightly lower than most "pure" Tolkowsky ideals.

If this diamond is not able to give me the best light performance, then I will convince my SO to buy one from one of the pricescope vendors like whiteflash, goodoldgold or BGD, all of whom seem to be very highly regarded in these forums. I really want to have the peace of mind, when I look down at my engagement ring, to know that it is in the best of its class, as I am a chronic worrywart and any doubts will haunt me through my life!

First, your bricks-and-mortar jeweler has gone above and beyond many others by providing these images. Most showroom jewelers won't bother to "lift the hood" on their diamonds and show you the engine. Second, given the average cut in commercial outlets this jeweler has found you a stand-tall strong performer with care taken in the cutting. I applaud your jeweler.

In terms of your inner "worry wart," the co-ingredient of cut-focused brands from the sellers you mention is more centralization on Tolkowsky proportions. How much that matters is something you can only decide for yourself. You're now arriving to a micro-view of diamond performance and enthusiasts who love such details.

 

[periphery]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

hello john,

thank you for your input. I agree that I may have been too obsessive compulsive regarding the diamond. I also agree that the B&M I went to went over and above what most retailers could do.

I spoke to my B&M today and there is another diamond offered to me.

Carat: 0.9
Color: G
Clarity: VS2 (cloud in table which he says is eye clean)
Cut/polish/symmetry:3x Ex
Measurements: 6.19 - 6.22x3.80mm
Table: 57%
Depth: 61.3%
Crown angle: 35
Pavilion angle: 40.6
LGF: 75%
girdle: 3.5%
star: 50%
HCA: 0.9





i think this is better? which would you pick, assuming price is not a factor?

 

[John P]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

Carat: 0.9
Color: G
Clarity: VS2 (cloud in table which he says is eye clean)
Cut/polish/symmetry:3x Ex
Measurements: 6.19 - 6.22x3.80mm
Table: 57%
Depth: 61.3%
Crown angle: 35
Pavilion angle: 40.6
LGF: 75%
girdle: 3.5%
star: 50%
HCA: 0.9

That's an a terrific option. Popular color-clarity, highly sought-after weight, fantastic cut.

which would you pick, assuming price is not a factor?

This one has all the technical check-marks you said you were seeking. By the numbers and images you can't go wrong. I suggest you look at both of them and choose what makes you happy. Either will be dynamite.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

This one has all the technical check-marks you said you were seeking. By the numbers and images you can't go wrong. I suggest you look at both of them and choose what makes you happy. Either will be dynamite.

+1 I agree with John throughout this thread and the side by side in person would be your best final test of these two beauties.
No hearts image on this one so while it has closer to Tolk proportions you cannot ascertain the optical symmetry.

 

[periphery]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

Thank you John for your invaluable advice.
They were the same price. I have decided to go with the 0.9 G vs2. Actually the numbers that I was using as a guide came from you, John.

quoting an old post by John Pollard:
With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-the-best-crown-pavillion-angle.140563/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-the-best-crown-pavillion-angle.140563/[/URL]


I am trying to avoid browsing pricescope now that I have made my decision as I think my jeweller will start losing his temper with me very soon with my incessant questions!

PS: I read about GIA rounding which can make a diamond (which on paper has the right numbers) actually a dud.
would it be correct to say that, the idealscope and aset images of the 0.9carat are able to show that its angles are ok and not affected by the rounding? ie. that the actual angles are the 'ideal' angles.

 

[pfunk]

Re: opinion on round h&a with aset, hearts, diamond, pics in

Thank you John for your invaluable advice.
They were the same price. I have decided to go with the 0.9 G vs2. Actually the numbers that I was using as a guide came from you, John.

quoting an old post by John Pollard:
With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-the-best-crown-pavillion-angle.140563/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-the-best-crown-pavillion-angle.140563/[/URL]


I am trying to avoid browsing pricescope now that I have made my decision as I think my jeweller will start losing his temper with me very soon with my incessant questions!

PS: I read about GIA rounding which can make a diamond (which on paper has the right numbers) actually a dud.
would it be correct to say that, the idealscope and aset images of the 0.9carat are able to show that its angles are ok and not affected by the rounding? ie. that the actual angles are the 'ideal' angles.

The stone you have chosen looks great. It will not be a dud. GIA rounding is not of concern on your stone, and if the numbers are right (even with GIA rounding) you won't find a "dud". Stop worrying. It will be great.