Opinion on Prince Andrew losing his ranks, title, etc

[RMOO]

It is absolutely normal for a male member of the British Royal Family to have an affair. What Charles did with Mrs. Parker-Bowles while he was heir to the throne would not have caused a ripple on the pond had he not been married to Lady Diana Spencer. No one had explained how it worked to her and she was crushed by the reality. But to act as if Charles did something wrong for his position is crzay. He did what he was expected to do. The funny thing is that he actually loved his mistress.

I find it highly ironic that a male member of the British Royal Family, including a reigning King (or Queen - or is it also sexist?) who is the accepted head of the Anglican Church, believed to be appointed by God himself, but blatantly and expectedly violates the religion's 7th commandment, and in earlier days #6 (beheadings) with full consent of followers. Admittedly, this is not so different than the notion that the Pope is infallible and speaks directly to God, all the while overseeing the multitude of awful things the Catholic church is guilty of (I was raised Catholic.)

...all just a method to control the masses.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, as I said upthread, privately I'm leaning toward him being guilty. But I think this post is unreasonable given that he's still technically innocent. Just imagine if you were in his position and you were actually innocent. Even though I think he probably did do it, I'm aware that this is just my opinion and that I don't actually have a clue. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, which is why I'm not fond of posts like this, which are appearing all over the internet. There's a witch-hunt-like quality to them which makes me uncomfortable when charges haven't been proven, just in case he's innocent, which rationally I know is a possibility, even if I think he's probably guilty. JMO.

I strongly agree about innocent till proven guilty.
I also notice the worse the crime being alleged, the more inflamed the public lynch mob becomes before the trial.

But I see this meme as referring the Queen's title-stripping resulting from that letter from the vets.
I don't see it as referring to the sex with a minor allegation, which has not been proven in court.

 

[Jambalaya]

I thought the case was about Virginia being forced to have s#x and being trafficked rather than age of consent. I know the age of consent is 18 in New York and the Us Virgin Islands, but it’s 16 in London and, unfortunately, that’s the only jurisdiction with a damning photograph. So I’d have thought the lawyers would have better luck focusing on the trafficking and abuse part rather than the age of consent part. But I’m not sure exactly what the charges are.

That photo really is damning. It’s upstairs in a tiny mews house, exactly where Virginia says the abuse took place. You can see from the photo what a narrow house it is. Why on earth would they be upstairs together, there, if not to have s”x? It’s a really weird place to be. With people as rich as they are, if all was innocent, you’d be entertaining at a nice venue. You wouldn’t be upstairs in that tiny house. I think that photo will go a long way toward Andrew’s undoing. But they won’t be able to get him on age of consent for that particular episode. That’s why, if I were her team, I’d focus on the trafficking and being-forced aspect.

Jesus, even in the best-case scenario, which is that Andrew really thought she was a consenting and well-paid worker, to do it with someone so young who was in the company of these older people - very weird - and not to even CHECK that she was OK and wanted to do it and wasn’t being held against her will….I mean, even the best-case scenario is pretty vomit-inducing.

The photo is a really wonderful piece of evidence. The defence can easily posit that it’s no place to entertain, no reason to be there other than what she said, and if they establish beyond reasonable doubt that they had s”x there, then it’s easier to get convictions for the other two places. If they can return guilty verdicts or even just one for London, they can also posit that given the circs that I mentioned above, he could have reasonably been expected to check that everything was above board before going ahead, and the fact that he did not do so shows he was complicit in trafficking and abusing a victim of trafficking.

If he was a good person who was simply open to using s”x workers, he would have questioned her about her circumstances once alone, asked what she was doing with those two, and if she was really OK with it, and she probably would have told him what was really going on, at which point he would have picked up the phone to the police.

But he just went ahead with it, I believe.

Some prince.

 

[kenny]

...
Some prince.

A prince who turned into a frog.

 

[Gussie]

A prince who turned into a frog.

That's an insult to frogs.

 

[Calliecake]

There is no “winning“ for Virginia no matter what a court of law decides. I imagine regardless of the monetary award Virginia would be granted she would probably opt for never having to go thru this long painful ordeal. Somethings in life money can’t fix or even remotely ease the pain of what someone has gone thru. I have serious doubts Andrew will ever spend time in a prison cell.

 

[Snowdrop13]

It should be very easy indeed for Andrew to prove where he was at any point in time- I’ve seen film of him sweeping into hotels like Claridges with a complete entourage of security and lackeys. All of them must be witnesses.

Like Harry, he is just another self important, entitled, not very bright individual who has no idea how normal people live. He seems to serve no purpose and is actively scarring the Royal Family.

One thing I don’t understand, though. Presumably Virginia G was trafficked to have s*x with more than one man, why is she not going after all of them? Maybe not so high profile?

 

[Jambalaya]

There is no “winning“ for Virginia no matter what a court of law decides. I imagine regardless of the monetary award Virginia would be granted she would probably opt for never having to go thru this long painful ordeal. Somethings in life money can’t fix or even remotely ease the pain of what someone has gone thru. I have serious doubts Andrew will ever spend time in a prison cell.

Agree with all that. I cannot even imagine what a trial will do to her. And yes, I'm sure if she could go back in time, she would opt never to have met that odious pair, regardless of how much money she might get in a settlement. Money can't give her back her late childhood, her innocence, her carefree late teens and twenties, nor erase years and years of bad memories.

It is truly incredible how much of our destinies can rest on a chance moment in time - the moment those two spotted her as she walked along a street. It makes me sick to think of how innocent she was and these two predators spotted her like a pair of hawks spying a field mouse. I hate, absolutely hate, that Epstein died before he could face justice.

I hope she gets a lovely huge settlement. I know money can't fix what happened, but it can ease the rest of her life, which she deserves.

Andrew can't get jailtime from Virginia's suit, since it's a civil suit, but it's a pity he can't be called to a criminal trial. I don't know if that's because he's beyond US jurisdiction or because the age of consent is 17 in the UK, where the damning photograph was taken, or what. I think he should face a criminal trial. He must have known something wasn't right with this young girl being toted around with this two powerful rich older people, and yet he went ahead with it (I believe). In my view, he went along with the trafficking and abuse, in addition to sleeping with a minor in the other two jurisdictions (NY and US Virgin Islands.)

I don't know why the US doesn't issue a warrant for his arrest. I know such a warrant would not be enforceable in the UK, but it would mean he could not come to America again, and it would send a message.

 

[Jambalaya]

It should be very easy indeed for Andrew to prove where he was at any point in time- I’ve seen film of him sweeping into hotels like Claridges with a complete entourage of security and lackeys. All of them must be witnesses.

Like Harry, he is just another self important, entitled, not very bright individual who has no idea how normal people live. He seems to serve no purpose and is actively scarring the Royal Family.

One thing I don’t understand, though. Presumably Virginia G was trafficked to have s*x with more than one man, why is she not going after all of them? Maybe not so high profile?

As far as I'm aware - and I haven't read everything about the case - she was Epstein's "sex slave" and he trafficked her to Andrew. She tells how Maxwell told her that she "had to do for Andrew what I do for Jeffrey." So it sounds like it was just the two, although I'm not sure.