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Opinion on Inclusions

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davelb20

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
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7
Hello,

I have a quick question about inclusions. I posted a few days back about this stone. And I got some more information from uniondiamonds, I guess the stone is eye clear from a foot away or further. What is everyones opinion on this? I have attached a picture this time. Uniondiamond is bringing it in from their vendor so they can look at it, and also get an ideal-scope image for me. I am waiting for that. But in my opinion most people don''t look at a ring closer than a foot away, its more like a foot and a half or more. Also my girlfriend is more interested in the cut and how it sparkles and will most likely overlook inclusions. In everyones experience, are inclusions you can only see when you are closer than a foot bad on a 1.5 carat? I really don''t look at rings or diamonds that much, so I need a little help with this. Supposedly the cut is really good though, I''ll find out more on Wednesday with the ideal-scope image.

EGL Certified
and I was told it has a cluster of tiny dark spots between the table and girdle that is not naked eye visible. The color is probably closer to an H color by GIA standards but will not show yellow in a ring or otherwise.

Carot: 1.52
Color: F
Cut: Select Ideal
Clarity: SI2
Depth: 61%
Table: 56%
Crown: 13 Percent
Pavilion: 44 Percent
Florescense: None
Cutlet: None
Cut Advisor: 1.7 Excellent BIC
Price: 4512

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?mod=search&search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&item_id=AB645655#
33.gif


Thank you

Dave

diamond152.jpg
 
Hi, Dave,
I would buy this diamond only if you know your girlfriend is okay with inclusions that will likely be visible at some angles, by some people (maybe her, too, depending on her eyesight). I say this as an owner of an AGS 0 I1 clarity diamond. My diamond is eyeclean to me because the inclusions are clear/white. When inclusions are dark in color, I think they become easier to spot. Given that the actual color is a likely a few grades lower than the EGS color grade, I think it's safe to assume that the SI2 clarity may be a few grades lower, more like an I2 or I3. If you understand what that means in terms of types of inclusions, and how it impacts the price of the diamond, then you are an informed buyer. But if you have not seen a selection of I1, I2, and I3 diamonds in real life, you may be in for an unpleasant surprise.

The angles of this stone also concern me a bit. You've given the percentages as 13% and 44%. Can you post the angles that go with those percentages? They should be on the report and they will be numbers like 33, 33.5, etc., for the top half (crown) of the diamond, and 40.9, 41.0, etc., for the bottom half (pavilion) of the stone.
 
I can't speak for your girlfriend but I have a ring with horizontal baguettes that are "eye-clean" from a foot away but if you're close you can definitely see the inclusions. My baguettes are much smaller than your 1.5, no doubt about that and it bothered the heck out of me. Other girls and my friends didn't just view it from next to me, they would take my hand and look at it closer to their face. I would go down in ct weight to get a better clarity stone and I do not agree with the idea that it's "eye-clean but only from a foot away"
 
Sorry,

The EGL Report didn''t give angles, it only gave percentages. I guess I''ll continue the search and drop down the carat weight or wait from more input from them at Union when the get the diamond in house.

Dave
 
Those inclusions look pretty, well um, bad to me. Your girlfriend will be looking at the ring less than a foot away
all the time. Those inclusions may bug her...I would try to find out before buying that stone. I''m all for a good
size stone with an eye-clean SI1, SI2 or even I (if you can find it) clarity but this one would not work for me. Need to
see how your GF would feel about it.
 
I would wait to hear more about the diamond before you decide for sure. And if you can, I would pay a visit to some local jewelry stores and ask to see some diamonds with lower clarity grades, just to test your own personal tolerance for inclusions.
 
SarahPJ,

Thats a good idea, when we went into stores they mostly only showed us SI1 or better stones. I haven''t really seen many SI2 or lower stones in person. I''ll check them out, thank you everyone for the advice.

Dave
 
I''m glad my suggestion was helpful to you. Keep this in mind, the stores may say they don''t carry anything lower than SI1 or they don''t carry "included" stones. They have their image to protect. But what you know now because you''re on this forum is that depending on the certification -- GIA vs. AGS vs. EGL -- color and clarity grades can vary by a grade or two. So when you visit the stores, tell them that you''re interested in getting maximum carat size for your money. And ask them to show you diamonds with "lower" clarity grades (rather than a specific grade). Not all inclusions are the same -- in general, darker inclusions will be more obvious than clear or white inclusions. If you view the stones under the microscope and ask questions about the inclusions, you''ll train your eyes to notice subtle differences in clarity that may be masked by the sparkle of the stone under the lights.

I think that lower clarity stones can be a real value. I would buy another AGS 0 I1 if the inclusions did not affect durability (some inclusions may make the stone more vulnerable to chipping or cracking) and if they are not eye visible to me. And inclusions under the table are generally less desirable than inclusions off to the side of the stone. But, again, it depends on the type of inclusions. My current stone has white crystals under the table and I can''t see a thing.

But my opinion is in the minority; many people do not like stones with lower clarity grades -- it is a personal choice. That''s why it''s important to consider how your girlfriend would feel about wearing a lower clarity stone.
 
I''d say those overlap into the table too far. If they stayed out beyond the table, might be okay. But the eye will tend to see those as one big dark spot. One definite pepper speck is probably more acceptable that that spread-out group, for a ring. So, since it''s that obvious in a photo, I''d pass. There''s a big long thread on here "What is this scary stuff..." etc. That diamond had dark graining. At first the buyer liked it the diamond and she didn''t see the dark graining in the lighting she''s sen the diamond in, but at home, it really stood out in certain lights and she hated it after a while. If you compare your photo and the one in that thread, the inclusions have about the same degree of "obvious" in the photo. Lots of SI2s are going to be like that. You used to hear of eye-cleans, but not so much anymore. One of the pros here said there is grade creep and that those eyeclean SI2s are probably called SI1 now. Some of what I''d call I1 is getting graded SI2 now, also. At least that''s what I saw when looking for a good SI2.

Depending on where the inclusion is, an I1 might actually be more visually acceptable. Try for stones that do not have inclusions in the table area.
 
Here is a link to a 2008 thread with links to an inclusions education page on Good Old Gold''s site. I think Good Old Gold''s webpage is not working reliably right now, so the links may not work until they get their site back up.
previous threads

HVVS''s post reminded me of something else: When you look at the stones in stores, make sure to tilt the stone and look at it from all angles and try to view it under other lighting conditions (away from the bright lights of jewelry cases). Some inclusions may be much more visible in brighter vs. lower light and some may be more visible from the side.

I don''t mean to scare you away from lower clarity diamonds -- as I said, they can be great values -- but I do want you to learn as much about as inclusions as you can, so you can be an informed buyer.
 
This is just my opinion, but to me eye-clean means you cannot see any inclusions with your naked eye. That you would need magnification in order to see the inclusions, regardless of how close you are looking or how the lighting is set up.

Good luck.
 
I agree with Tom Gelb. Eye clean should be eye clean at 6 inches or whatever amount of inches. People do look at rings closer than one foot especially the lady who receives the ring. I personally don''t see the sense in getting a large size stone that has visible inclusions. I can''t imagine any person being happy receiving a ring that has visible inclusions. If that photo is accurate then the inclusions look pretty bad.
 
Sorry, but I wouldn''t be too pleased if my guy brought home a stone with that big of an inclusion. Most of the time, my ring is about 10 inches away when causually looked at. When I clean it and admire it, it''s about 6 inches.

Regardless of how that stone looks under an ideal scope or asset, and the HCA, it would be one *I''d* pass on.
 
as we age...most SI stones will look like VVS stone.
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Date: 3/16/2010 1:35:02 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
as we age...most SI stones will look like VVS stone.
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Click to expand...

Yup, lots of great values out there for us geezers! But my mother''s OEC has a carbon spot in it near the culet and I can see that puppy a mile away. So it just depends on the diamond and the inclusion.
 
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