Online purchase switcharoo??

[jnwaco]

Alright, I have a question about sales practices on the net. I''m buying an engagement ring. Up until last week, I was ignorant of diamonds for the most part. I knew basically about size and color and clarity, in general. Had no clue on cut, which I''ve read can make or break how shiny a diamond is.

I searched at Union Diamond first. I found three diamonds that were within the following characteristics:

1-1.03 carats
H color
Vs2 clarity
Very Good Cut or better (table 53-57 and depth 60-63)

All were EGL certified (which I''ve now read may not mean much either) and were somewhere between $3500 and $3600.

In any case, I inquired about the one with the best cut. I was told that it was now unavailable and that the lady would get back to me with certificates on alternate diamonds. Four days later I get an e-mail with the alternatives, ALL of which were now S1 clarity for the same price or one was even $300 more.

So, I went to Szul. They did not have any VS2 diamonds in my price range. I found AND ORDERED a S1 diamond, H color, 61.8 depth and 54 table, which seemed to be what a few web sites would consider ideal. It was $3200. Also EGL certified. I PAID FOR THIS STONE. The money is gone, out of my account as of last Friday. I get a call TODAY saying that the stone I ordered is no longer available and the guy would send me alternatives. Well, you guessed it, the alternatives COST MORE and had cuts outside the range for even a "very good" cut. Now they have my money and I don''t have a ring, and it will probably be 5 days before they can get the money back into my account.

I''m not familiar with the diamond market. I don''t have a jeweler I trust, as I don''t regularly buy jewelry, so online seemed about the same risk as walking into a local store where I don''t know the guy from Adam.

In either case, I don''t believe in coincidences. Is it common practice to advertise a specific stone at a specific price and then turn around and say it''s NOT AVAILABLE (even after they''ve taken your money!!!!) and then send you alternatives that are MORE expensive for LESS quality? Somehow I feel like I''m getting screwed.

Not too mention, I ordered the stone based on calling them and verifying they could have it to me, set, by this Thursday.

It just makes me more nervous about spending this much money (to me) and having to trust someone.

Any suggestions?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/5/2008 1:22:10 PM
Author:jnwaco
Alright, I have a question about sales practices on the net. I''m buying an engagement ring. Up until last week, I was ignorant of diamonds for the most part. I knew basically about size and color and clarity, in general. Had no clue on cut, which I''ve read can make or break how shiny a diamond is.

I searched at Union Diamond first. I found three diamonds that were within the following characteristics:

1-1.03 carats
H color
Vs2 clarity
Very Good Cut or better (table 53-57 and depth 60-63)

All were EGL certified (which I''ve now read may not mean much either) and were somewhere between $3500 and $3600.

In any case, I inquired about the one with the best cut. I was told that it was now unavailable and that the lady would get back to me with certificates on alternate diamonds. Four days later I get an e-mail with the alternatives, ALL of which were now S1 clarity for the same price or one was even $300 more.

So, I went to Szul. They did not have any VS2 diamonds in my price range. I found AND ORDERED a S1 diamond, H color, 61.8 depth and 54 table, which seemed to be what a few web sites would consider ideal. It was $3200. Also EGL certified. I PAID FOR THIS STONE. The money is gone, out of my account as of last Friday. I get a call TODAY saying that the stone I ordered is no longer available and the guy would send me alternatives. Well, you guessed it, the alternatives COST MORE and had cuts outside the range for even a ''very good'' cut. Now they have my money and I don''t have a ring, and it will probably be 5 days before they can get the money back into my account.

I''m not familiar with the diamond market. I don''t have a jeweler I trust, as I don''t regularly buy jewelry, so online seemed about the same risk as walking into a local store where I don''t know the guy from Adam.

In either case, I don''t believe in coincidences. Is it common practice to advertise a specific stone at a specific price and then turn around and say it''s NOT AVAILABLE (even after they''ve taken your money!!!!) and then send you alternatives that are MORE expensive for LESS quality? Somehow I feel like I''m getting screwed.

Not too mention, I ordered the stone based on calling them and verifying they could have it to me, set, by this Thursday.

It just makes me more nervous about spending this much money (to me) and having to trust someone.

Any suggestions?

Not with reputable vendors. Sounds like a bait and switch.

Get your money back, and read on here in the meantime. Here''s a list of vendors you can totally trust.

And you can search on here for them to read real reviews.

http://www.pricescope.com/dealers.asp

 

[sunnyd]

Yikes! First things first, get on that phone and have them refund your money! That''s really shady that they would even do that. Szul? Never heard of them, but I would suggest calling up either WF or GOG (are you looking for a cushion?) or ERD. They''ll help you select the perfect stone, bring it in (a step it seems Szul missed...

), send pics, THEN take your money when you decide that you want that one.

Dispute that payment though, I''m still in shock they did that!!!

 

[Herfnerd]

OUCH!

I''m sorry to hear about your poor experience, but I too have never heard of Szul. How did you pay for the stone - via bank transfer or debit/credit card? I would definitely get your money back and go elsewhere - WF, GOG and JA are reputable vendors here. I just rec''d a ring from JA - paid less than what I had budgeted and rec''d MORE than I expected!!

 

[jnwaco]

Well, Union Diamond seemed reputable enough based on my research, but I fear the same thing would have happened had I ordered one of their stones.

I called Szul and they weren''t even apologetic. They would not match the price on the substitute stone for which they sent me the certificate. They have a hold on right at $4,000 for the diamond and setting. The bank will not let me dispute a charge while it''s in a pending status (which is what a hold is). They said they''d release the hold, but I know how that works. It will take 3-5 days for that process to be completed. I don''t use credit cards and I''d have to sell some stock to purchase a second $4,000 ring without having access to the first $4,000.

I appreciate the responses and as you can tell, I''m a little steamed. Alright, enough venting for now...

I''m basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she''s not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn''t expensive for a ring, but it''s what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I''ve read that cut is "98% of a diamonds brilliance" at several different web sites, so I''m looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Sunnyd - what is a cushion?

 

[swingirl]

SZUL has a 30 day money back guarantee so you should be able to get your money back ASAP.

When you get it your money do some research on Pricescope. Read threads about people''s experiences with the vendors here. You can get plenty of help and education so when you are ready you can make an educated purchase.

It is not standard to bait and switch. That''s bad business.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/5/2008 1:53:25 PM
Author: jnwaco
Well, Union Diamond seemed reputable enough based on my research, but I fear the same thing would have happened had I ordered one of their stones.

I called Szul and they weren't even apologetic. They would not match the price on the substitute stone for which they sent me the certificate. They have a hold on right at $4,000 for the diamond and setting. The bank will not let me dispute a charge while it's in a pending status (which is what a hold is). They said they'd release the hold, but I know how that works. It will take 3-5 days for that process to be completed. I don't use credit cards and I'd have to sell some stock to purchase a second $4,000 ring without having access to the first $4,000.

I appreciate the responses and as you can tell, I'm a little steamed. Alright, enough venting for now...

I'm basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she's not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn't expensive for a ring, but it's what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I've read that cut is '98% of a diamonds brilliance' at several different web sites, so I'm looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Sunnyd - what is a cushion?

Why? One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch. I seriously doubt that would have happened with them. But I understand you being skittish now. Calm down and have a go with a reputable vendor, it will be ok, really.

Please don't rush this process. Get the money back, and in the meantime look around. And yes, cut IS king in a stone.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

I don''t know about Union Diamond, but I can attest to the wonderful service at WhiteFlash! They absolutely WILL NOT take your money until they have your diamond in house, have sent you multiple images of it for you to review, and have confirmed that you do in fact want that specific stone. Then, and only then, will they accept your payment and ship the stone to you. Good luck, and sorry you had to go through this!

 

[jnwaco]

Well, technically, it''s two bad apples now, although I didn''t make it to the point of actually paying for a diamond with Union. They most assuredly would have taken my online order (and my money) and then called and told me it was unavailable. I just skipped the giving them the money part before I was switched. That''s essentially what they did, and NONE of the replacement diamonds Union sent were as good, yet they were the same price or higher than the one I inquired about.

I''ll take a look at some of the vendors advertised here.

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 8/5/2008 1:53:25 PM
Author: jnwaco

I''m basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she''s not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn''t expensive for a ring, but it''s what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I''ve read that cut is ''98% of a diamonds brilliance'' at several different web sites, so I''m looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Sunnyd - what is a cushion?

What cut are you looking for? Round, princess, cushion, emerald...etc etc?

And $4000 is PLENTY for a ring! If you want help starting out, I''d start a thread with specs and the PS experts will help you find a good one from a good vendor. Good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/5/2008 2:13:51 PM
Author: sunnyd

Date: 8/5/2008 1:53:25 PM
Author: jnwaco

I''m basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she''s not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn''t expensive for a ring, but it''s what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I''ve read that cut is ''98% of a diamonds brilliance'' at several different web sites, so I''m looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Sunnyd - what is a cushion?

What cut are you looking for? Round, princess, cushion, emerald...etc etc?

And $4000 is PLENTY for a ring! If you want help starting out, I''d start a thread with specs and the PS experts will help you find a good one from a good vendor. Good luck!

Ditto, we will help you - not to worry!

 

[dbsdiamonds]

Hi there Jnwaco,

Any diamond you purchase should have been verified as available prior to placing the order. There are few ocassions where a diamond might be out "on memo" and the salesperson of choice made the assumption only to find out it wasn''t going to be available. But in any event it could have been determined available prior.

On another note as long as you know EGL does not grade as rigid as GIA, an EGL cert is typically 2-3 grades higher than what GIA would call the same diamond. So an EGL H VS2 is on it''s BEST day an I SI1, and J SI1 or I SI2 or J SI2, depending on the flavor of the day at the EGL lab.

The rule of thumb I tell customers to apply is that if buying from one of these great internet diamond companies on pricescope, whatever the diamond prices out to be, look up that price vs. a GIA cert diamond and that''ll clue you in on what grade the diamond actually will be at best.

For example, if a GIA H VS2 is $5k and an EGL H VS2 is $3500, a $3500 GIA pricepoint gets you I color SI2 or a not so great cut GIA H color SI2 or a visible included GIA H SI2 1ct. Not a true H Vs2. But such for you to find out...

Marty
CEO/Pres
www.diamondsatcost.com
www.dbsdiamonds.com

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/5/2008 2:10:26 PM
Author: jnwaco
Well, technically, it''s two bad apples now, although I didn''t make it to the point of actually paying for a diamond with Union. They most assuredly would have taken my online order (and my money) and then called and told me it was unavailable. I just skipped the giving them the money part before I was switched. That''s essentially what they did, and NONE of the replacement diamonds Union sent were as good, yet they were the same price or higher than the one I inquired about.

I''ll take a look at some of the vendors advertised here.

Ok, I understand what you''re saying. However, one, sometimes a stone really does get sold, and someone forgets to pull it from the inventory.

Secondly, some things that might have caused the other stones to be a lower clarity, but the same price. If they were from a better lab, and/or better cut, that plays a part in the price too. You don''t pay for a stone just based on color, clarity, and size. There are cutting factors that come into play also.

So, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt here, since I know there have been some satified customers from there.

 

[strmrdr]

The answer is simple don''t deal with drop shippers.

Ask for pictures and an in person evaluation for which they will have to call the diamond in.
Once they have the diamond in hand and satisfy your questions then and only then pay for it.

 

[jnwaco]

Thanks Lorelei and Sunnyd. I''m looking for a round shaped diamond. I will start a new thread. I probably did rush the process a little. I looked in some of the local jewelry stores localy. I made the rounds about a month ago. The prices in the store ranged from $1,000 to $1,500 more for the same type of ring I saw online. For a $3,500 ring, $1,000 difference in price for essentially a very similar diamond turned me off locally.

We''re leaving Thursday night to go to the beach for a long weekend. I had planned on proposing on the beach. Had Union or Szul actually had the diamonds in stock, I would have had the ring in time. I actually verified this with Szul over the phone before I ordered. Well, I think I''ve blown that now.

Anyways, I will start a new thread! Thanks again.

 

[dockman3]

Date: 8/5/2008 1:53:25 PM
Author: jnwaco
Well, Union Diamond seemed reputable enough based on my research, but I fear the same thing would have happened had I ordered one of their stones.


I called Szul and they weren''t even apologetic. They would not match the price on the substitute stone for which they sent me the certificate. They have a hold on right at $4,000 for the diamond and setting. The bank will not let me dispute a charge while it''s in a pending status (which is what a hold is). They said they''d release the hold, but I know how that works. It will take 3-5 days for that process to be completed. I don''t use credit cards and I''d have to sell some stock to purchase a second $4,000 ring without having access to the first $4,000.


I appreciate the responses and as you can tell, I''m a little steamed. Alright, enough venting for now...


I''m basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she''s not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn''t expensive for a ring, but it''s what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I''ve read that cut is ''98% of a diamonds brilliance'' at several different web sites, so I''m looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Hi there, and welcome to Pricescope! I just wanted to offer some advice on your purchase. First off, 4k is a great amount of money to spend and you can get a great looking ring for that price! However, I must warn you that you will not be able to hit the 1ct mark in an excellent cut diamond. I did a quick cut quality search at the top of the page using 1 ct, H-I color and VS2-SI1 clarity and the cheapest diamond I found was $4661, not including a setting. If you would be comfortable going under the 1ct mark, say closer to 0.9ct or 0.85, you''d have much better luck and more choices.

I would say that cut is 99.95% of a diamond''s brilliance. I would suggest only looking at the best cut diamonds you can find and then get the biggest one you can afford. A 1ct diamond that is not cut ideally will be out-performed and will actually look smaller than a 0.8ct diamond that is well cut.

If you would like some help finding a great stone, don''t hesitate to ask. Good luck with your search, I hope you get everything straightened out!

 

[jnwaco]

Thanks Dockman. I started another post. I did a search, too, and I did come up with some, actually quite a few, although only one or two were GIA. Ultimately, that''s what I''m looking for and if I have to put the whole thing off to save up for a larger budget, that''s what I''ll do. I would probably go smaller than a carat, but not much smaller at this point, since I can''t compare two of them right now side by side. I''ll probably go back tomorrow to a local jeweler and just ask to see two of these diamonds (.85 and 1 carat) side by side to compare.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/5/2008 1:53:25 PM
Author: jnwaco
Well, Union Diamond seemed reputable enough based on my research, but I fear the same thing would have happened had I ordered one of their stones.

I called Szul and they weren''t even apologetic. They would not match the price on the substitute stone for which they sent me the certificate. They have a hold on right at $4,000 for the diamond and setting. The bank will not let me dispute a charge while it''s in a pending status (which is what a hold is). They said they''d release the hold, but I know how that works. It will take 3-5 days for that process to be completed. I don''t use credit cards and I''d have to sell some stock to purchase a second $4,000 ring without having access to the first $4,000.

I appreciate the responses and as you can tell, I''m a little steamed. Alright, enough venting for now...

I''m basically looking for a 1 carat diamond with an excellent cut, H-I color, and not full of inclusions (which basically matches the four stones I considered ordering before they were yanked out from under me).... My girlfriend has not given me specifics on what she wants, leaving it up to me, but I know she''s not expecting me to spend anywhere near this much. And, I know that $4,000 isn''t expensive for a ring, but it''s what I am comfortable with and can afford to write a check for. I''ve read that cut is ''98% of a diamonds brilliance'' at several different web sites, so I''m looking for size and cut as the deciding factors.

Sunnyd - what is a cushion?

There are a couple of issues here, and I have my guess as to what might be one of the problems, in addition to the fact that EGL reports are normally 30 - 50 % back of AGS and GIA reports would bring for a diamond with the same grade. (Hmmm, I wonder why?)

One of the big ones, and remember this is my guess, is that the quotes you found on the sites were for diamonds listed on thier sites prior to the latest price increases, and since these stones are not owned by the sites they found they could no longer get them for the same prices that they were quoting.

Why do I guess this? Well, partially because earlier this week I sold a diamond for about $400 less than I should have because that was the price it was still listed on my site for. Sigh, silly me, I actually honored the old price, but then, I owned the diamond. Also, when you are listing ten thousand or a hundred thousand diamonds that you don''t have, you may or may not have any idea whether or not they are still available when someone wants to buy it.

Personally, I think it is bad juju to take money for the stone before you have verified that it is still available, and even worse juju not to find a way to make it right when you find that you have messed up.

The situation, AS YOU DESCRIBE IT, does indeed sound like bait and switch, and to me would be grounds for insantly demanding that my refund be processed, today. It might take another day or three to show on your card but most of the vendors on this forum would be very likely to hold a stone and wait for your return to be processed if you asked. You may not get quite as high a color and clarity grade for the same money if you use an AGS or GIA papered diamond, but you would actually be getting what you think you are getting. (There is a reason that we in the trade pay so much less for EGL papered diamonds, and why the owners of those diamonds do not send them to AGS or GIA for their papers. We vendors are expected to know these things, the peoply who create these reports and the people who sell them are hoping that YOU don''t know these things.)

My advice, take a deep breath, get your money back, start over. Look at the list provided, look at a few threads, it will not take you long to figure out who the good guys are.

Wink