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Old Miner Diamond Questions....

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drkah

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
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14
Hi Everyone,

Forgive me in advance if my questions are naive...I''m rather confused in this world of C''s!

I have a beautiful Old Miner and have lots of questions that I seem not to be getting answered by some professionals I have consulted with. I love these forums and assume I have found the right place to get sorted out.
I would be most appreciative of any information you could give me.

I was given this information by a jewler/appraiser who did not seem to be totally familiar with Old Miners :
My ring is set in 18 KT white gold and measures 9.65 X 9.48 X 6.10mm , 15.00% GTCF approximate weight of 3.91 ct. (Do these measurements correspond to the "table", "depth", etc.? Also the stone was not removed from the setting so can I be sure these are accurate measurements?)

Clarity= Sl-1
Color = M-O
Cut =Fair Medium- Class 3a

There are six channel set square shape blue sapphires measuring 2.00 X 1.90 X 1.500mm

The ring is stunning- but I was advised to sell the stone for recutting (?!?!?) and that Old Miners are not very in vogue right now.


I would not like to see the ring "modernized" by recutting and would assume that the intrinsic value of an antique ring- setting, cut, etc. would have a market somewhere?!

Can anyone help me understand what I have?
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Welcome to PS.




Date: 11/20/2007 3:08:29 PM
Author:drkah
Hi Everyone,

Forgive me in advance if my questions are naive...I''m rather confused in this world of C''s!

I have a beautiful Old Miner and have lots of questions that I seem not to be getting answered by some professionals I have consulted with. I love these forums and assume I have found the right place to get sorted out.
I would be most appreciative of any information you could give me.

I was given this information by a jewler/appraiser who did not seem to be totally familiar with Old Miners :
My ring is set in 18 KT white gold and measures 9.65 X 9.48 X 6.10mm , 15.00% GTCF approximate weight of 3.91 ct. (Do these measurements correspond to the ''table'', ''depth'', etc.? Also the stone was not removed from the setting so can I be sure these are accurate measurements?)

Unfortunately..., not all jewelers are familiar with Old-Miners..., actually sometimes I feel some jewelers are not familiar with Diamonds. (period)
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Chances are that id your Old-miner is set in 18K..., its not in its original setting.
Measurements you have put are Lengthxwidthxheight in mm. size. (Depth % is Height divided by shortest diameter (in this case 9.48mm.)


Clarity= Sl-1
Color = M-O
Cut =Fair Medium- Class 3a

There are six channel set square shape blue sapphires measuring 2.00 X 1.90 X 1.500mm

The ring is stunning- but I was advised to sell the stone for recutting (?!?!?) and that Old Miners are not very in vogue right now.

If you mentioned your jeweler is not to familiar with Old-Miners..., I guess you shouldn''t listen to his advice in regards to Old-Miners.
I am against re-cutting Old Cuts!!!

Old-Mine Cuts are and were always considered classic..., "right now" they are extremely in vogue
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I would not like to see the ring ''modernized'' by re-cutting and would assume that the intrinsic value of an antique ring- setting, cut, etc. would have a market somewhere?!

You bet ya..., there is a huge market for Antique jewelry!!!
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Can anyone help me understand what I have?
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If you post an image..., it will help us start to explain to you whet you have!!
 
Old cuts are awesome! Will you post a pic?
 
Please do a search for: OMCs, OECs, Transitional Cuts, Old cuts, antique stones, etc. and you will see tons of old cuts here! They are becoming more desirable as people realize how stunning they really are. The fact that he told you to re cut it says clearly he is CLUELESS about antique stones and you should not go back to that guy (I''m begging you! Dont re cut it!).

If you tell us where you are located, we can steer you towards people that know a lot about old cuts. There are appraisers here like Dave Atlas in Phila, who can appraise your stone more accurately as he has experience with old cuts specifically. You''d have to ship your stone to him but he can explain how to do that safely. I''d first have it appraised to see what you really have and go from there. It sounds like a gorgeous ring/stone...Can you post any photos and hand shots of it for us?

PS: Did I say DONT RE CUT IT yet? Yeah, um, DONT RE CUT IT! Thanks!
 
Recommending a recut is a profit center for many dealers, but it may not be a good deal or best for you. Don''t sell or recut the stone until you truly have unbiased advice. An old stone often can be vastly improved in looks with very minor adjustment of facets and a repolish of the existing surface. This a way different and less invasive than a total recut where your special diamond will become just like all the rest and lose a lot of its own character.
 
Thank you! I promise it will not be re-cut!
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Does your stone have any light chipping at all around the girdle edge (the thinnest, widest point around the circumference of the stone)? It's quite common with older cuts since they've been around for a lonnnnng time!
 
Earlier this year I looked at a very attractive ~3.5ct M-VS old mine cut stone, loose with a report from a reputable lab - I can't remember the exact price but something like $15K. Yours estimated so close to 4 that I'd be asking an expert whether the per carat difference between 3 and 4 at this color/clarity justifies unmounting it for a for a closer examination and a lab report. Also, a nice original antique has significant value in the antique market i.e. significantly more than the sum of its parts; and to me at least, a lower color stone like this looks more appropriate as an antique cut in a period piece, not as a modern round.

Like everyone is saying, you need to find someone who specializes in antiques, preferably an independent appraiser. Dave Atlas who responded to you earlier is well regarded for this throughout the industry.
 
Since I''m a tad computer/technology challenged I''m unable to get a decent photo of the ring.
Any advice on how to photograph it w my Canon digital would be appreciated....

Also-
-Is it a big no no to remove a stone to examine, measure, etc.?
-How do I get a price that is reflective of the highest market value? How/ where does one sell a ring like this?
-Is it safe to send a diamond somewhere? I''m afraid to let it out of my sight!
 
Set your camera to the largest manual F stop. The largest F is the smallest iris opening. This will, in turn, make the photo exposure the longest and you will get the greatest depth of field your camera can offer. Don''t use a lot of direct light. You want to minimize the brighest sparkles or you will have overexposure of the camera sensors.

After you take the photo, you can readjust the white balance and contrast along with sharpness to bring out a good amount of the detail of the diamond and its cut.

After you handle the image, you can reduce the file size and canvas size to fit the constraints of the image uploader on Pricescope. You will have to name the photo in some way that is not a duplicate of any other already loaded photo on Pricescope.
 
Oh dear...Not doing well with photographing my ring. Should I assume that your instructions are for a SLR 35mm camera?
I''ve got a Canon Power Shot A610 digital and spent most of last night trying to do what you suggest- to no avail.

Does anyone have any experience with photographing a diamond with this type of camera? I tried the closeup settings but am getting mush-
 
The limitation of light increases depth of field in all cameras, not just film types, but digital as well. Using less lightreduces the brightest sparkles and helps capture the facet lines of the stone rather than just a brightness without shape. Some cameras just don''t do the job as well as others. It took us many different cameras and lighting arrangements until we were able to get decent shots of jewelry and gems.
 
Thank you !

I have been perusing the photographing posts since the crack of dawn and realize that I am in good company in
a. Feeling totally overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge /skill and fortitude one needs to begin understanding the world of diamonds- and especially
OMC
b. Feeling totally inept
c. Committed to hanging in there with you as a guide!!

Photos shall emerge!!!!!!
 
drkah,

Please grant me my Thanksgiving Wish: a few pics of your OMC!!!!
 
Make sure you using macro (closeup) mode - the camera will display a flower icon. Outside in bright filtered light not direct sunlight works well.
 
I finally got some pictures of my Old Mine Ring- but cannot figure out how to resize to attach to this e-mail. Guess I''ll have to find a 9 year old to help me or e-mail you all individually -which I also can''t figure out how to do...
 
Here is the long awaited photo of my 3.91+ (it was appraised in the setting) OMC!!!!

Terrible photo as I still cannot figure out how to crop/reduce per the instructions... however I''ll keep trying.
Took the picture in a window with filtered sunlight (through a tree full of yellow leaves no less...) behind the stone. It was the only way I could get my macro setting to work.
The stone was removed from the setting by the person who wanted to cut it down so I just put it back in the opened setting. Probably full of fingerprints, etc. but at least it will give you a sense of it.

I am interested in having lots of imput... what do you all think about this?
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Wow - that is just gorgeous!!
 
Thank you so very much- it is a show stopper!
 
It''s stunning in all it''s OMC glory. Love it!!!
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It looks like a lovely stone! But, have the prongs been cut away? It looks like the double prongs on the top corners have been cut off..I''m still not sure - are you a man or a woman, and do you want to sell the stone or keep it? I was confused as I re read your posts. If you want to sell it, I''d call Ari at Single Stone and ask him how the process works. I know he buys all the time and I can assure you that if he bought it, it would be with the intent to keep the stone as is.

If you''re asking if you should keep it and wear it, my answer would be YES! OTOH, if you were considering presenting it to a special someone as a gift or ering, then I''d say, ask them if they love old cuts...some do, some dont. It looks like a lovely ring though. Is there a family history with the ring that you can share with us?
 
Holy smokes! Very, very nice.
 
The prongs were pried open with some device by a diamond merchant/acquaintance who wanted to view it and possibly buy it (with the intention of cutting it).

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At that point it went back into the safe and I found Pricescope!

I am a woman and it was my engagement ring more years ago then I care to count. It sits in a safe most of the time and really should be out in the sunshine!
I am looking for good solid information about it, it''s worth and for a good next "home" for it. I have loved it and been staggered by its'' beauty but it is time to let it go.
 
I see...thanks for the back story! I'm glad you enjoyed it for a long time!! Please, because you obviously love the ring and appreciate the stone for its inherent beauty as an old antique cut, call Ari at Single Stone in Los Angeles and talk to him. I know he would never buy a stone for re cutting. At the most, he'd re polish the edges if there were a lot of abrasions or chipping, but he only deals in old cuts and his clientele are looking for stones like yours.

If you're closer to NYC, call Michael Goldstein and see if he'll take a look at it, he's also a big old cuts dealer.

As for appraisals, you might contact Dave Atlas (located in Philly) directly as he appraises old cuts for a living...at least I think that's why his moniker is Old Miner! You are correct, you need a great appraiser to tell you what to expect in terms of selling prices.

Good luck and as a fellow old cut lover, THANK YOU for NOT selling that stone to a butcher! The future owner will appreciate your care in selecting the right person to sell the stone as it is.
 
Date: 11/28/2007 10:08:06 PM
Author: surfgirl
I see...thanks for the back story! I''m glad you enjoyed it for a long time!! Please, because you obviously love the ring and appreciate the stone for its inherent beauty as an old antique cut, call Ari at Single Stone in Los Angeles and talk to him. I know he would never buy a stone for re cutting. At the most, he''d re polish the edges if there were a lot of abrasions or chipping, but he only deals in old cuts and his clientele are looking for stones like yours.

If you''re closer to NYC, call Michael Goldstein and see if he''ll take a look at it, he''s also a big old cuts dealer.

As for appraisals, you might contact Dave Atlas (located in Philly) directly as he appraises old cuts for a living...at least I think that''s why his moniker is Old Miner! You are correct, you need a great appraiser to tell you what to expect in terms of selling prices.

Good luck and as a fellow old cut lover, THANK YOU for NOT selling that stone to a butcher! The future owner will appreciate your care in selecting the right person to sell the stone as it is.
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Yes!
 
I 2nd Singlestone as an option. Regardless of what you decide to do, they have some beautiful pieces that may give you some ideas. I''m on my 2nd project with them--Ari is extremely easy to work with. www.singlestone.com You have a lovely stone!
 
Any updates on this, drk? I do hope that you wear the ring more often - it is simply TOO GORGEOUS not to see the light of day...
 
Yes! We would love to hear something. You have such a beautiful stone that is sooo worth a lovely setting...
 
Here is an altered, cropped image

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I am now looking for any and all advice about finding this Old Mine a new home!
 
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