Old Houses/Neighborhoods - Advice Please!

[Elmorton]

DH and I have been on the open house circuit for about a month now, and we''re starting to very seriously think that we want to take the plunge into home ownership for the first time.

We have a thing for old houses - we currently rent a house that was built in 1935 and most of the houses we''ve really liked are from 1910-1930. But, I''m worried that we don''t know entirely what we''re getting into.

The one thing that makes me especially nervous is that it seems that with old houses, you get old, eclectic neighborhoods. Both DH and I grew up subdivisions, so I feel like I have no idea how to gauge if it''s a "good" neighborhood or not, because old neighborhoods tend to have a different feel. Everywhere we''ve looked in our price range, there will be beautiful homes that have been well preserved, and then one down the street with clutter in the yard and practically no paint. Is this just what we should expect or is this a huge warning sign?

Also, other concerns: For those of you who have lived in an older home/older neighborhood, have you found that your house is harder to sell? What about upkeep? All the houses we''ve looked at are updated, but are there things we should especially look out for in terms of maintenance?

And, what advice would you give a first-time home buyer interested in an old house? What are we not thinking about?

 

[lyra]

Well, there''s one major thing to consider if you''re buying an old home and that is to go in well below your comfort level mortgage-wise, or you''ll never have the necessary funds for emergency fix-ups (or renos in general) once you do move in. I''d hire an inspector who would give me a complete rundown of maintenance/repair costs and reno costs if that''s also something you''re thinking about. There''s nothing worse than being house rich and cash poor.

We had friends who bought a house of the vintage you''re considering. There were some things they had to just live with, like plaster wall and ceilings that couldn''t be changed. Electrical needed updating. Plumbing needed updating. They ripped out the entire kitchen. They only had 1 bathroom on the main floor of the house, and a half bathroom upstairs--not great for a family of 4. Actually, they ended up divorced shortly after the entire house was completed, but who knows why?

I love a house with character. Just avoid any with surprises. If the housing prices are lower in a neighbourhood, you might get people who use the homes as rentals, and that may be why you see houses in ill repair and dirty yards. Or it could just be the neighbours. Best to walk around the neighbourhood or find a realtor who will be honest with you about it.

 

[movie zombie]

many of those older homes are built better than homes today. [eta: as part of your offer contract not after you move in] have an inspection done by someone that is familiar with older homes and that particular type of construction. if you have work done down the line, you'll want to retain the construction style.

movie zombie

 

[LegacyGirl]

Date: 3/30/2008 11:49:37 PM
Author: lyra
Well, there''s one major thing to consider if you''re buying an old home and that is to go in well below your comfort level mortgage-wise, or you''ll never have the necessary funds for emergency fix-ups (or renos in general) once you do move in. I''d hire an inspector who would give me a complete rundown of maintenance/repair costs and reno costs if that''s also something you''re thinking about. There''s nothing worse than being house rich and cash poor.

We had friends who bought a house of the vintage you''re considering. There were some things they had to just live with, like plaster wall and ceilings that couldn''t be changed. Electrical needed updating. Plumbing needed updating. They ripped out the entire kitchen. They only had 1 bathroom on the main floor of the house, and a half bathroom upstairs--not great for a family of 4. Actually, they ended up divorced shortly after the entire house was completed, but who knows why?

I love a house with character. Just avoid any with surprises. If the housing prices are lower in a neighbourhood, you might get people who use the homes as rentals, and that may be why you see houses in ill repair and dirty yards. Or it could just be the neighbours. Best to walk around the neighbourhood or find a realtor who will be honest with you about it.

They''re really not allowed to tell you much about the makeup of the neighborhood.

It''s some ethical violation or something. It''s silly if you ask me. I remember when I was looking before when I asked "Hey I''m a single girl who will be living by myself is this an ok neighborhood do to that in" they couldn''t even answer that.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I grew up in an old house and now live in an old apartment building because I love them.
For neighborhoods: There are a few things you can do to figure out if you are in fairly good area. The first is figure out what school district you are in and if the schools are good. Since schools get paid based on property tax, better schools tend to indicate better areas and are easier to sell.
The other way to check is to look at crime statistics in the area. I know my parents live in the lowest crime area of my city. I think they rate it ever other year where I am and it always gets published in the paper so you might want to take a look.
This website, http://www.zillow.com/ gives estimates of property values for a HUGE number of houses. I suggest you search through to see if the neighborhood is about what you are looking for.

As for old houses, I do think they are better built than newer ones for the most part, but there are some things to be aware of.
Don''t strip paint from anything wothout consulting a professional; it likely has either aspestos or lead. If you are going to be redoing the house, get it tested for asbestos which has to be removed and is very expensive to do so.
In my parent''s house, the water pressure on the higher floors wasn''t terribly good because of small pipes.
Heat will be more expensive because of old heating systems and single paned glass.
Foundations should ALWAYS be checked, especially in old house which settle.

Most other problems (termites, mold, dry rot) tend to have more to do with the area you are in and the care of the house rather than age.

Good luck, I am so glad there are other people out there who appreciate old houses.

 

[Erin]

When you do buy a 'fixer upper' consider most of your weekends are spent fixing, painting, shopping, tediously tearing down wallpaper, chiseling up tile, caulking, grouting, measuring, cutting, stripping, sanding, painting, varnishing. It is a huge committment to say, We're going to fix up this house. Because most of your money and time will be spent on it. Until you are satisfied, which takes longer than most people are willing to accept, that house is your five year project. It's sometimes a real struggle to keep the motivation up weekend after weekend. Consider moving into a 'ready to move in' house and all that time you would otherwise spend doing Whatever else you enjoy doing? It's a lot of sacrifice!

 

[Elmorton]

Thanks everyone for the info! I don''t really know what''s going to happen. DH wants to find out soon what we''d get pre-approved for, but part of me wants to stay. I''ve read sooo many house-hunt threads here and I don''t think I have the romantic view of house-hunting like DH does. I can''t imagine the emotional toll it would take, and I''m really worried that we won''t find what we want in our price range. I did another drive though the neighborhood with the "perfect house" today and decided it wasn''t so perfect. The street the house is on is lovely, but on the corner at the end of the street (which connects with a main vein), there is a house with 12 rusted out cars in the back yard and it looks like it''s falling down. That''s a big no-thanks, I think. I keep on telling DH: If we had people coming from out of town to visit, I want to be able to give them directions where at no part of their drive will they think "Eeek, this is sketchy." But then, I drove around in a few neighborhoods where I''d love to live and got some sticker shock when I hopped out to grab a flyer from a house that is for sale - more than twice what we''re looking at.

Legacy - YES! I''m so glad that there are equal housing laws, but at the same time, I want to know if my family will be safe, if my car will get broken into, if we''ll be able to re-sell the house, etc. We spent hours looking at crime stats last night, but unfortunately they typically do it by zipcode, which doesn''t help when you''re looking at a city where neighborhoods that are only minutes apart can be vastly different.

Brazen - thanks SO MUCH about the info about paint/etc. That''s something that we subconsciously knew about (we had to sign a form that stated that our landlord had told us that he had checked for lead/asbestos and didn''t find anything) - but we hadn''t really thought about it for our purchase. I''d wondered about termites etc and was worried that there was an increased chance. Thanks for addressing that!

MZ - Yes, good idea! We hadn''t really thought about the inspection yet, but it''s definitely a good idea to get someone who knows their way around older houses

Lyra - Eeek, I''m sorry to hear about your friends. That is one thing I worry about (too much HGTV, I think!) - none of the houses we''ve seen have 100% perfect updates - kitchens especially, but I''m extra worried about doing too much updating and then not being able to sell.

Starset- That is a concern of ours. We''ve tried to stay away from serious fixer-uppers, and stick to homes that have been restored/updated. We''re definitely NOT a handy couple - DH and I spent all night Saturday refinishing our night stands and it was a complete disaster (but at least now my legs have a lovely, splotchy tan from the varnish). Anything on the fixer-upper list bigger than nightstands ain''t happening!

 

[erica k]

my neighborhood definitely has a varied makeup. there are two public housing projects within a 5 minute walk from my home, but they both fit neatly within the residential building fabric (i.e., the scale and building materials are similar). there are some homes that are fancy victorian/queen anne single-family houses, but most are multi-family dwellings. there are a few larger apartment buildings (20+ units), but most are 2-3 stories. there are also 6 large churches on my street! lots of different ethnicities and socio-economic groups. the area is slowly gentrifying, so i''m not terribly alarmed by the rickety old house next door to the queen anne house in which a 3 bedroom unit sold 3 years ago for $1,000,0000. i love the diversity. lots of old-timer families that have stuck it out. plus, i live two blocks from trader joe''s and whole foods.

since i live in a university town, i find that the neighborhoods in close proximity to school housing are more prone to muggings. my neighborhood is only a 15 minute walk to school, but in the past 3 years, i''ve only heard about two muggings in my area, and both happened consecutively (likely related). sometimes i''ll see broken glass on the street (auto break-in), especially after the fourth of july. i live right next to the river, and people usually walk down my street to watch the fireworks, which isn''t something i considered when i purchased the place.

i love old buildings, but they definitely require a lot of patience. i''m not a huge fan of gutting a unit and modernizing it, because the architectural quirks are what make them so interesting in the first place. but there are definitely days when i think, hey, why not just knock down that closet and open up the floor plan?

 

[oobiecoo]

I''ve never lived in an older home but I do have a huuuuge place in my heart for them. If you were to purchase one, I would recommend one that is near a historical district if possible. Once you do any renovations needed then you should be able to sell it pretty easily later on. If its just part of a regular neighborhood then as long as homes around it are fixed up nicely and it seems like an established community (not a lot of renters) then you should be able to sell it pretty easily also. Having not-so-nice homes a couple of blocks away is usually pretty common... if I were you, I would drive around the area at night to see if anything sketchy or wild(like parties) is going on at these homes... if not then it''s probably safe to buy there. You might want to look up registered sex-offenders in the area as well.

Also, make sure you check out the foundation... they can sometimes cost more to fix than your home itself cost!

 

[Elmorton]

Erika - We''re fairly close to a small university, also. It''s so strange - on one side of the university, it''s literally the PERFECT, PERFECT neighborhood (we live right on the edge of it now where we rent, and while we love it, there is pretty much nothing for sale or in our range), but then on the other side of the campus, it''s completely run down and a hefty amount of crime- lots of gorgeous old houses for sale, though! I know exactly what you mean about thinking "I could so knock down that wall" - but I don''t think we ever could, haha. Too much HGTV rotting my brain! Our house is a duplex (originally built that way), and every time I''m in my kitchen, I think "we could buy this whole thing from our landlord and have the most amazing gourmet kitchen if we just combined the units" and then I realize ooooh yeah, that would take extra 10s of thousands that we don''t have

Oobiecoo - we actually did look at the sex offenders registry yesterday. We''ve done it for everywhere we''ve lived, and have noticed that sex crimes/criminals are everywhere, but I did notice there was a small cluster a few streets away from a house that we really liked - which for me was a clear indicator. I always hate looking at the registry because of the creepy factor, but there was a lot of info there - I was surprised that IA also lists the class of the crime and the specific charge - it''s relatively easy to distinguish between statutory rape (and if both persons were relatively the same age at the time) and forcible attacks/rape and crimes pertaining to children. That''s definitely good advice to check.

I''ve noticed too that "check the foundation" has been a theme, in good advice also! We will DEFINITELY put that at the top of our list. We went to one open house where the home was on a steep bluff (really neat looking) but the living room was very obviously slanting. Eeeek! We didn''t spend much time there.

 

[Haven]

I think Deco posted a response to a question I once had about purchasing an older home. It sounded like she had some experience owning an older home, and was warning me against doing the same thing.

I could be wrong, maybe it wasn''t Deco, but perhaps you could start a thread calling her?

 

[erica k]

The interesting thing about the neighborhood closer to university housing is that outwardly, it looks very safe and well-maintained. However, because there are so many students walking back and forth late at night, there are quite a few muggings (nothing really violent, but what mugging is a good mugging?). My neighborhood actually looks a little rougher around the edges, but it seems to be safer because there are fewer students with laptops and ipods walking about. I do, however, stay on my street when I walk alone at night, because it is well-lit. I''ve learned here that just because a neighborhood looks nice doesn''t mean it''s safe. And generally, if you don''t feel comfortable driving around a prospective area at night, chances are, you won''t ever feel comfortable. Even if it is perfectly safe, it''s all about your perception of safety.

I have friends who are really afraid of most neighborhoods that seem even remotely dangerous. Basically, if there are lots of immigrants, or the houses look a little shabby, then they steer as far from the area as possible. I have other friends who have no problem renting in a less than affluent area because of the low rent and delicious and cheap neighborhood restaurants. I grew up in a 1950s subdivision, and admittedly, I''m somewhat paranoid. So, I always commute on my bike (not so easy in the snow, but oh well). Whether or not I''m safer on a bicycle, I feel safer. My husband thinks our neighborhood is extremely safe and laughs when I keep my whistle in my pocket when we walk home late at night.

Along with the foundation, be sure to check the roof and the plumbing. The basement shouldn''t feel/smell damp or moldy, either. Oh, even with all their problems, I do love old buildings. They require a lot of care, but are certainly worth it if you buy a manageable one.

 

[joflier]

If the house has been well kept up, and passes inspection, I don''t see any reason to be too concerned. Our home was built around 1910, and was a fixer-upper. Lot of small problems here and there, but we just love the character that it has to offer. Good foundation, updated plumbing, evened floors, updated electric are all of big importance.
Neighborhoods on the other hand are just a crapshoot. You may find a good one, but then a couple months after you move in, a "good" neighbor or two might move out, and who knows who''s gonna come in after them.....vice versa for bad neighbors moving out, and good ones moving in.....everything is always changing. Good luck!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

We lived in a house built in 1920 (built as an engagement present from a wealthy Cleveland family for his son! Now that is a gift

) It was a money pit. A BEAUTIFUL money pit. But it was quite large (not sure what size you are looking at) BAD heating, NO A/C, leaky windows, poor water pressure but in all fairness it was not recently updated when my parents bought it. And it was lovely. Lots of character. Beautiful decorated plaster ceilings (expensive to recreate after some water damage), wonderful carved wood paneling. Very detailed. So much history! Just know you WILL have more upkeep than the average newer home.

 

[Elmorton]

Thanks for all of the extra advice! We saw another house today and it was sooo perfect - until we got upstairs and I swear, I felt like I was in that commerical with the couple who lived in the tiny house..not gonna work.

DH and I have decided to stop looking and wait until next summer - we can save a bit more over the next year and get into a more flexible price range so that we can get into the PERFECT house instead of the "this can work.." one.