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Okay - Help me shop!! Do either of these look good to you?

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ilm3bgaja

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
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9
Diamond #1
Carat Weight: 1.21 carat
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent (GIA)
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very good
Depth: 60.7%
Table: 58%
Crown: 35.5
Pavilion: 40.5
Cutlet: None

Diamond #2
Carat: 1.21
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Cut Grade: Very good
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Depth: 59.5%
Table: 59%
Crown: 32.5
Pavilion: 40.8
Cutlet: None
 
1st stone looks promising.

2nd stone is in the older people''s ring stone, so depending on if you can bear with it.
 
LOL - You''re going to have to tell me what "older people''s ring stone" means
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I have not seen either stone yet, so I will have to see what they look like in person.

They are both the same price, not that it matters.....
 
Older people''s ring stone. Basically, from the dimensions of this stone, there is a high probability that the stone will become dark when you inspect it closely as this stone returns most of the light coming from the observer''s direction. In effect, your head''s shadow is falling onto the stone, making it darker. Called that because older persons are usually long-sighted so they cannot inspect a stone closely, so to them this stone will look bright and lively.
 
Ahh....gotcha.
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Thank you for the explanation! Well, I am going to make an appointment to go look at the first stone. I am the one who already bought a GIA "Excellent" cut stone, but it was scoring a 5 on the HCA....

We''ll see how pretty it is in person.
 
Isn''t there a chart that has oval circling showing "Young people" vs "Old people" etc. on the HCA diagram view?
 
Date: 10/28/2008 1:21:21 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Older people's ring stone. Basically, from the dimensions of this stone, there is a high probability that the stone will become dark when you inspect it closely as this stone returns most of the light coming from the observer's direction. In effect, your head's shadow is falling onto the stone, making it darker. Called that because older persons are usually long-sighted so they cannot inspect a stone closely, so to them this stone will look bright and lively.
SC, don't worry too much about ' older people's ring' ' younger people's ring' etc so much, it can get a bit confusing for new posters and also cause concern on their choices in some cases. I know you are trying to help and I can sense your enthusiasm but I wouldn't worry too much about definitely categorizing each diamond in this way.
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We cannot predict with any certainty the suitability or actual performance of any diamond as we haven't seen it, and this can cause those posting and those reading in the future to perhaps overlook what might be a perfectly suitable diamond for them. Also the HCA cannot physically see the diamond or predict that any diamond will behave in a certain way.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 1:30:32 PM
Author: Lorelei

SC, don't worry too much about ' older people's ring' ' younger people's ring' etc so much, it can get a bit confusing for new posters and also cause concern on their choices in some cases. I know you are trying to help and I can sense your enthusiasm but I wouldn't worry too much about definitely categorizing each diamond in this way.
1.gif
We cannot predict with any certainty the suitability or actual performance of any diamond as we haven't seen it, and this can cause those posting and those reading in the future to perhaps overlook what might be a perfectly suitable diamond for them. Also the HCA cannot physically see the diamond or predict that any diamond will behave in a certain way.
Indeed.

I have what would be considered a "young persons" stone, and while I'm certainly young at heart, I ain't no spring chicken.
9.gif
And yet I have no problems with my stone, which is stunning, if I do say so myself!
bat%20eyes3.gif
 
Date: 10/28/2008 4:16:14 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/28/2008 1:30:32 PM
Author: Lorelei

SC, don''t worry too much about '' older people''s ring'' '' younger people''s ring'' etc so much, it can get a bit confusing for new posters and also cause concern on their choices in some cases. I know you are trying to help and I can sense your enthusiasm but I wouldn''t worry too much about definitely categorizing each diamond in this way.
1.gif
We cannot predict with any certainty the suitability or actual performance of any diamond as we haven''t seen it, and this can cause those posting and those reading in the future to perhaps overlook what might be a perfectly suitable diamond for them. Also the HCA cannot physically see the diamond or predict that any diamond will behave in a certain way.
Indeed.

I have what would be considered a ''young persons'' stone, and while I''m certainly young at heart, I ain''t no spring chicken.
9.gif
And yet I have no problems with my stone, which is stunning, if I do say so myself!
bat%20eyes3.gif
Hahaha!!!
9.gif
 
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Well, there is no penalty for an old person to own a young person but not vice versa. Just to let him make an informed decision on what his options are.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 4:41:17 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Well, there is no penalty for an old person to own a young person but not vice versa. Just to let him make an informed decision on what his options are.
I don't get what you mean, are you saying that an old person can own a ' young person's stone' but that a young person may not be happy with an ' old person's stone'? Can you elaborate for me please?
 
Date: 10/28/2008 4:46:42 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 10/28/2008 4:41:17 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

Well, there is no penalty for an old person to own a young person but not vice versa. Just to let him make an informed decision on what his options are.

I don't get what you mean, are you saying that an old person can own a ' young person's stone' but that a young person may not be happy with an ' old person's stone'? Can you elaborate for me please?

Yes. That is what I am saying. From what I understand, all the TIC looks good from afar, you see good light returns and sparkles. But the pendant/ear-ring stones are the most affected by the head shadow of the observer, followed by the older person's ring stone with the young person's ring stone least affected by this shadow. This is due to more of the source of the light returns coming from the direction of the observer. I think in an ASET, this will translate to more blue zone than red.

In the case of older person's ring stone, as a younger person, with better eye-sight, tends to want to look at the ring stone closer thus throwing his/her head shadow onto the stone, lowering the light returns and making the stone darker resulting in the perception of a poor performer on close inspection.

In a younger person's ring stone, less sources of the light returns comes from the direction of the observer, so even on close observation the head shadow thrown onto the stone will not result in too much of a reduction in light performance. An older person will still see the stone from a far, so to him/her, it still looks fine for both types of stones.

I believe Garry Holloway name the zone older person's ring stone because the present system grades ideal stone in the young person's ring stone region, thus if you are unaffected by the effect of the head shadow, older or intending to use the stone for a pendant or ear-ring, buying a stone from these region will save you some $$ as they will be considered as lesser cut quality and thus priced cheaper.

That's my understanding of what the HCA is trying to predict or at least how I interpret and use it anyway.
 
SC I think the important thing to take away from that is that it''s something to consider, and put into the equation, but not necessarily a reason to throw a stone out just because of it...
 
Date: 10/28/2008 6:14:14 PM
Author: neatfreak
SC I think the important thing to take away from that is that it''s something to consider, and put into the equation, but not necessarily a reason to throw a stone out just because of it...
Or make statements about such stones as "if you can bear with it". That makes it sound, bad. And it may very well not be. I would suggest instead, if you feel the need to elaborate on such a stone, to simply point out that the cut may cause it to have some head shadow, and direct the poster to a thread describing that.

Also, "labling" stones as "older persons" or "younger persons" could very well cause someone to think they don''t "qualify" for a certain stone. Many posters take things that we say very literally, so we just need to be careful how we choose our words.
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And, there are many people out there with the "other" age groups stones, enjoying them totally. We split enough hairs on here, without literally grouping stones according to ones age.
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I never throw out the stones. Just stating what is in the HCA.

Also, I didn't label that, Garry label it, I just use his terminology.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 6:52:22 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
I never throw out the stones. Just stating what is in the HCA.

Also, I didn''t label that, Garry label it, I just use his terminology.
Right. It''s just one persons opinion. And even he doesn''t use those labels when posting.
 
So? I am an Engineer and a reserve army officer(Singapore), by training and inclination I say things straight to the point. Blunt.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 7:48:58 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
So? I am an Engineer and a reserve army officer(Singapore), by training and inclination I say things straight to the point. Blunt.
I was interested to know more about you SC - that must be interesting - do you do much with the reserves?

What I was trying to say anyway is that it can be best not to see diamonds in absolutes of black and white, many fall into a grey area and as the ladies above have explained it, some posters can take what we say very literally as can those searching the archives. Just bear that in mind when offering advice - as Ellen noted there are many older people out there enjoying young people's stones and vice versa.
 
Date: 10/29/2008 3:57:37 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/28/2008 7:48:58 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
So? I am an Engineer and a reserve army officer(Singapore), by training and inclination I say things straight to the point. Blunt.
I was interested to know more about you SC - that must be interesting - do you do much with the reserves?

What I was trying to say anyway is that it can be best not to see diamonds in absolutes of black and white, many fall into a grey area and as the ladies above have explained it, some posters can take what we say very literally as can those searching the archives.
Hey SC, I hope you don''t mind me chiming in, but I just wanted to say I can see the point the ladies are making.
I have been reading your responses and you have definately taken to this and are very helpful, its great to have newer members like you.
But at the end of the day, HCA is certainly not everything, I think you''ll read Garry say that too. Personally, I don''t like over-depending on it even now I understand it - and that took me a number of months !
I have to agree that the nuances of cut are hard enough for newbies, without more terminology to confuse them. Of course being an engineer, you may find this info easier to learn than others.

Anyway, just some food for thought - at end of day its great that you are helping.
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We engineers like to deal with terminology because it is defined and less chance of misunderstanding. I never say HCA is absolute or to reject the stone, just that it falls into a certain zone and one might want to re-consider it, hence the statement if you can take it. This is because alot of of people just took the HCA<2 as a score and go with it without analyzing what the stone''s plot on the graph actually means and questioning why a stone can be rated highly on the HCA but rejected by AGS/GIA.

Anyway, to answer Lorelei question, Singapore has a conscript army and all guys serve about 2 - 2.5 years, after that we are all in the reserves which trains about 7-14 days a year for 15 years, more for the officers. Since I am working overseas now, I am on deferment from training.
 
Date: 10/28/2008 7:48:58 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
So? I am an Engineer and a reserve army officer(Singapore), by training and inclination I say things straight to the point. Blunt.
Sc, there''s nothing wrong with "getting to the point". But your previous post didn''t do that. It wasn''t worded like that. I''ll just repost what I said before, because that''s the point I''m trying to make, that you seem to be missing.


"Or make statements about such stones as "if you can bear with it". That makes it sound, bad. And it may very well not be. I would suggest instead, if you feel the need to elaborate on such a stone, to simply point out that the cut may cause it to have some head shadow, and direct the poster to a thread describing that.

Also, "labling" stones as "older persons" or "younger persons" could very well cause someone to think they don''t "qualify" for a certain stone. Many posters take things that we say very literally, so we just need to be careful how we choose our words"


I''m particularly getting at the highlighted part. That can make readers think ALL stones within this certain cut can be "bad", and that includes people who already own them. First of all, they aren''t bad, secondly you can''t assume every single diamond will fall into the category of headshadow (or whatever), it''s not that cut and dried. You haven''t been around long enough to see the fear/worry that can be instilled in people just from reading a post. As I said before, our words can be taken very literally, so we need to exercise caution when saying something so we don''t instill fear in a newbie, or cause a poster who already has such a stone to worry. We don''t want to do that, it''s not helpful.
 
Date: 10/29/2008 7:40:49 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/28/2008 7:48:58 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
So? I am an Engineer and a reserve army officer(Singapore), by training and inclination I say things straight to the point. Blunt.
Sc, there''s nothing wrong with ''getting to the point''. But your previous post didn''t do that. It wasn''t worded like that. I''ll just repost what I said before, because that''s the point I''m trying to make, that you seem to be missing.


''Or make statements about such stones as ''if you can bear with it''. That makes it sound, bad. And it may very well not be. I would suggest instead, if you feel the need to elaborate on such a stone, to simply point out that the cut may cause it to have some head shadow, and direct the poster to a thread describing that.

Also, ''labling'' stones as ''older persons'' or ''younger persons'' could very well cause someone to think they don''t ''qualify'' for a certain stone. Many posters take things that we say very literally, so we just need to be careful how we choose our words''


I''m particularly getting at the highlighted part. That can make readers think ALL stones within this certain cut can be ''bad'', and that includes people who already own them. First of all, they aren''t bad, secondly you can''t assume every single diamond will fall into the category of headshadow (or whatever), it''s not that cut and dried. You haven''t been around long enough to see the fear/worry that can be instilled in people just from reading a post. As I said before, our words can be taken very literally, so we need to exercise caution when saying something so we don''t instill fear in a newbie, or cause a poster who already has such a stone to worry. We don''t want to do that, it''s not helpful.
Ditto. Thank you Ellen for stating that so eloquently, particularly the bold part.
 
Sorry. My prefer method is to hand someone all the tools and info they need, what they do with it is up to them.
 
Date: 10/29/2008 7:59:18 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Sorry. My prefer method is to hand someone all the tools and info they need, what they do with it is up to them.
Sure - just beware of handing them tools that might overcomplicate what is often already a challenging process for them. Look in your toolbox to find the best tools for that particular job or post to get the job done the best and easiest way possible according to the level of info the poster wants or asks for - basically that is all we are trying to say.
 
Date: 10/29/2008 7:59:18 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Sorry. My prefer method is to hand someone all the tools and info they need, what they do with it is up to them.
That''s fine, as I said before. Just don''t scare people in the process. Do you not understand what I/we are saying?
 
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